Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

Phrazbit

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And that's the thing. Not only did the Mavs wipe the court with us, they first got deeper in the off-season and then again with Kyrie Irving. Luka was loaded, much more so than Devin Booker was - and Kevin Durant just obliterated all that.

Dallas made their team significantly worse in the off season. Losing Brunson killed them. McGee is glued to the bench and Christian Wood is so bad defensively that, despite his gaudy scoring, they're using him less and less.

The Kyrie trade was reactionary. They screwed up their team in the off season and were trying to fix it so they gambled on maybe the most toxic player in the NBA.

So far, it's not working. They're 1-4 with Luka and Irving together, Luka looked check out and miserable in the 2nd half of that Laker game.
 

BirdGangThing

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Dallas made their team significantly worse in the off season. Losing Brunson killed them. McGee is glued to the bench and Christian Wood is so bad defensively that, despite his gaudy scoring, they're using him less and less.

The Kyrie trade was reactionary. They screwed up their team in the off season and were trying to fix it so they gambled on maybe the most toxic player in the NBA.

So far, it's not working. They're 1-4 with Luka and Irving together, Luka looked check out and miserable in the 2nd half of that Laker game.
Definitely not working so far and I definitely agree on the Kyrie toxicity level. But the Suns and Mavs already had very similar records heading into the break, and I'd venture to say they got better with Kyrie (at least for the short term). Us adding Durant didn't just even the proverbial scales, we came out way ahead
 

Phrazbit

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Definitely not working so far and I definitely agree on the Kyrie toxicity level. But the Suns and Mavs already had very similar records heading into the break, and I'd venture to say they got better with Kyrie (at least for the short term). Us adding Durant didn't just even the proverbial scales, we came out way ahead

Other than Bridges, basically every single player of note on our team has missed significant time. When healthy we had the best record in the West in and the 11 games leading up to the deadline we were 9-2.
 

GatorAZ

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I’m sure the Suns tried to keep Cam or possibly a pick but they had to go all in to get him. Before the injury KD was a top-3 player and the Nets were the hottest team in the league.

Anyone thinking Ishbia goes after Udoka if we fall short of the finals due to non-injury causes?
 

BirdGangThing

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Other than Bridges, basically every single player of note on our team has missed significant time. When healthy we had the best record in the West in and the 11 games leading up to the deadline we were 9-2.
Regardless my man I'm saying Dallas got better with Kyrie, not to mention the clippers, who also got better. I like our chances way way better with Durant than with the twins
 

Joe Mama

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Yeah I thought Dallas really screwed by not keeping Brunson and I'm really not a fan of putting Kyrie Irving next to doncic. And like others of said, I think if the Phoenix Suns had been even reasonably healthy this year they would be one of the top three teams in the west record wise easily. IIRC at one point they were missing 6 of their 7 top players.

Even if we are completely healthy from here on out through the playoffs we will have some tough sledding to get the finals much less win them. Still I like our chances a lot more than I did before the trade
 

Phrazbit

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I’m sure the Suns tried to keep Cam or possibly a pick but they had to go all in to get him. Before the injury KD was a top-3 player and the Nets were the hottest team in the league.

Anyone thinking Ishbia goes after Udoka if we fall short of the finals due to non-injury causes?

Barring a total meltdown, I think Monty survives not winning/making the finals, but he'd be on thin ice. A slow start in 2023/24 would get him axed.

Given that the Celtics haven't missed a beat without Udoka and the PR flak we'd get for hiring him, I doubt he'd be on the top of the list either way.

A lot of people have mentioned Nick Nurse. I just looked up his contract and next year would be a lame duck season for him, if he and the Raptors can't agree on an extension they will probably give him the boot. He'd likely be the top candidate.
 

BirdGangThing

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Twins combining for 50 points tonight, Cam with 4 steals and Mikal with 2 against Giannis and Milwaukee (who know how to play defense)

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Both shooting 40% + from downtown and both shooting 50% + field goals

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If Kyrie and KD put up these numbers together on a night in Brooklyn it would be considered a good night. But the rest of the team... let's just say the Nets still lost by 14

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Giannis only scored 2 more pts than Mikal
 
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Covert Rain

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Twins combining for 50 points tonight, Cam with 4 steals and Mikal with 2 against Giannis and Milwaukee (who know how to play defense)

You must be registered for see images attach


Both shooting 40% + from downtown and both shooting 50% + field goals

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If Kyrie and KD put up these numbers together on a night in Brooklyn it would be considered a good night. But the rest of the team... let's just say the Nets still lost by 14

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Giannis only scored 2 more pts than Mikal
Bridges is playing out of his mind. Not really shocked either are having success.
 

Bufalay

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Man, I was enjoying watching Bridges growth before the trade more than I enjoyed watching the team all of last season. Sucks that he got traded.
 

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Wish we got Claxton in the trade
 

Hoop Head

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I guess I will be watching the box scores of Cam Johnson and Mikal Bridges for a long time to come.

The Durant trade will be forever intertwined.

I was thinking about it the other day, when the Suns have dealt truly beloved franchise favorites and I really hope this doesn't end up like the 2 I thought of. First was the Majerle for Hot Rod trade. At the time there was all sorts of reasoning about how we needed a Center and Hot Rod would play a more vital role on the floor than Majerle and that ended up being so incredibly wrong.

The other was the trade with Barbosa for Hedo Turkoglu deal. We needed size with Amar'e's departure and Hedo was also supposed to lessen the burden on Nash offensively as a creator. That didn't last long either.

Hopefully this time it doesn't bite us in the rear.

Maybe someone remembers others but those 2 stand out the most. Only other instance I could think of was trading Raja and Diaw for J-Rich and Dudley. That worked out but Diaw wasn't a favorite and Raja was about done as a contributor. Then trading Dudley for Bledsoe. That was a no brainer and I loved Dudley but Bledsoe had a ton of potential, that was more akin to the Dario for Baszley deal this year. Trading an older vet who doesn't fit that well for young potential makes sense when you lack quality youngsters. Neither of those deals involved really beloved players though, just more franchise favorites while Mikal and Majerle were valued far beyond their stats. They were fixtures and faces you thought of when you thought Suns.
 

Chaplin

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I was thinking about it the other day, when the Suns have dealt truly beloved franchise favorites and I really hope this doesn't end up like the 2 I thought of. First was the Majerle for Hot Rod trade. At the time there was all sorts of reasoning about how we needed a Center and Hot Rod would play a more vital role on the floor than Majerle and that ended up being so incredibly wrong.

The other was the trade with Barbosa for Hedo Turkoglu deal. We needed size with Amar'e's departure and Hedo was also supposed to lessen the burden on Nash offensively as a creator. That didn't last long either.

Hopefully this time it doesn't bite us in the rear.

Maybe someone remembers others but those 2 stand out the most. Only other instance I could think of was trading Raja and Diaw for J-Rich and Dudley. That worked out but Diaw wasn't a favorite and Raja was about done as a contributor. Then trading Dudley for Bledsoe. That was a no brainer and I loved Dudley but Bledsoe had a ton of potential, that was more akin to the Dario for Baszley deal this year. Trading an older vet who doesn't fit that well for young potential makes sense when you lack quality youngsters. Neither of those deals involved really beloved players though, just more franchise favorites while Mikal and Majerle were valued far beyond their stats. They were fixtures and faces you thought of when you thought Suns.
None of those examples are with players as good as the ones in this trade. So it's hard to do an apples-to-apples comparison.
 

Raindog

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If Cam and Bridges do really turn into top level guys in Brooklyn, the other question to ask is why didn't they do that here. It wasn't like they both suddenly developed their games to another level overnight on the plane ride to New York.

The obvious answer would be Monty. And unless he was going to be replaced any time soon, we weren't likely to be getting the same results from the two of them that Brooklyn is getting. Something to think about.
 

Hoop Head

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If Cam and Bridges do really turn into top level guys in Brooklyn, the other question to ask is why didn't they do that here. It wasn't like they both suddenly developed their games to another level overnight on the plane ride to New York.

The obvious answer would be Monty. And unless he was going to be replaced any time soon, we weren't likely to be getting the same results from the two of them that Brooklyn is getting. Something to think about.

You can't blame Monty for Cam J's health issues. Everyone has seen what he's capable of but it seems it was his body that kept him from reaching the next level as a player.

As for Bridges, I think personality plays a big role in his ascension in Brooklyn. He wasn't going to step on any toes here and had trouble asserting himself offensively. Now he's called on as a centerpiece, which wasn't going to happen on a team with Booker, Paul, and Ayton ahead of him in the pecking order, regardless who the coach was.
 

SirStefan32

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If Cam and Bridges do really turn into top level guys in Brooklyn, the other question to ask is why didn't they do that here. It wasn't like they both suddenly developed their games to another level overnight on the plane ride to New York.

The obvious answer would be Monty. And unless he was going to be replaced any time soon, we weren't likely to be getting the same results from the two of them that Brooklyn is getting. Something to think about.

It's not Monty. Bridges and Johnson have been improving consistently. They are now on a crappy team where they feel more comfortable taking leading roles. That team is awful, which makes it a perfect situation for those two guys to develop further. It's a change of scenery, much less pressure, and a lot more opportunities.
 

Raindog

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You can't blame Monty for Cam J's health issues. Everyone has seen what he's capable of but it seems it was his body that kept him from reaching the next level as a player.

As for Bridges, I think personality plays a big role in his ascension in Brooklyn. He wasn't going to step on any toes here and had trouble asserting himself offensively. Now he's called on as a centerpiece, which wasn't going to happen on a team with Booker, Paul, and Ayton ahead of him in the pecking order, regardless who the coach was.
Regardless, if either of that's true, then why should anyone grumble about trading them and lament whatever they do in Brooklyn? They never had and never were going to produce those results here if what you say is accurate.
 

sdscard4

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I'll be rooting for the Nets in the Eastern playoffs. Will be fun to watch
Unless they have a total meltdown and not make it
 

Hoop Head

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Regardless, if either of that's true, then why should anyone grumble about trading them and lament whatever they do in Brooklyn? They never had and never were going to produce those results here if what you say is accurate.

Really? There's a ton of reasons, I can't believe that's a real question. It's not just that they were traded away either it's that they were dealt with so many picks as well. To start, we've heard the Nets were offered 4 picks for Bridges alone, which is also the highest offer Brooklyn had from anyone else for KD. So why didn't the Suns just send Bridges off for those picks and maybe include a pick or two of their own for KD? Then we'd still have Cam here and more of own picks to make more moves down the line. That's just one of the reasons though, as it's a long list as to why people didn't want both dealt.

Simply stating Monty might have been holding them back and then flipping that around to why care they were traded if they won't produce as much as the #3 and #4 options here as the #1 and #2 somewhere else though is a bit perplexing because it shifts from extreme viewpoint to another extreme viewpoint. I'm having a hard time believing you're genuinely asking that out of curiosity rather than looking to start up a lengthy debate.
 

Raindog

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Really? There's a ton of reasons, I can't believe that's a real question. It's not just that they were traded away either it's that they were dealt with so many picks as well. To start, we've heard the Nets were offered 4 picks for Bridges alone, which is also the highest offer Brooklyn had from anyone else for KD. So why didn't the Suns just send Bridges off for those picks and maybe include a pick or two of their own for KD? Then we'd still have Cam here and more of own picks to make more moves down the line. That's just one of the reasons though, as it's a long list as to why people didn't want both dealt.

Simply stating Monty might have been holding them back and then flipping that around to why care they were traded if they won't produce as much as the #3 and #4 options here as the #1 and #2 somewhere else though is a bit perplexing because it shifts from extreme viewpoint to another extreme viewpoint. I'm having a hard time believing you're genuinely asking that out of curiosity rather than looking to start up a lengthy debate.
I am saying that it seems to me that this thread (or any like it) simply exists so that people who didn't like the trade can have a repository for their "I told you so's." Every time one or both of them have a nice game, it seems it's going to be referenced here as if we lost that same value by trading them... which there is no evidence of, as they weren't producing the same results here, nor was there any sign that they would ever consistently do so.

I was saying that there was some specific reason(s) why that was, whether it was due to coaching philosophy... or some alternative reasons as you suggest. Whatever the case, the point is the trade isn't and never was going to be a one-to-one opportunity cost. Bridges/Cam were not going to achieve the same results here as Durant will. Never.

Now the draft picks we sent the Nets could always result in four superior players (although it's far more likely they won't), and we could well end up lamenting that. That's the chance you take with any trade - that what you give up ends up being less than you get.

As for trading Bridges for the four first rounders, that certainly wasn't going to win us anything in the near term... and would have been speculative at best in the long term. I would have been highly upset at such a trade, as I'm sure most everyone else here would have been.
 

Covert Rain

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I am saying that it seems to me that this thread (or any like it) simply exists so that people who didn't like the trade can have a repository for their "I told you so's." Every time one or both of them have a nice game, it seems it's going to be referenced here as if we lost that same value by trading them... which there is no evidence of, as they weren't producing the same results here, nor was there any sign that they would ever consistently do so.

I was saying that there was some specific reason(s) why that was, whether it was due to coaching philosophy... or some alternative reasons as you suggest. Whatever the case, the point is the trade isn't and never was going to be a one-to-one opportunity cost. Bridges/Cam were not going to achieve the same results here as Durant will. Never.

Now the draft picks we sent the Nets could always result in four superior players (although it's far more likely they won't), and we could well end up lamenting that. That's the chance you take with any trade - that what you give up ends up being less than you get.

As for trading Bridges for the four first rounders, that certainly wasn't going to win us anything in the near term... and would have been speculative at best in the long term. I would have been highly upset at such a trade, as I'm sure most everyone else here would have been.
I was 100% for the trade and this is not why I am here at all. I am here because I genuinely like both players and hope they succeed. Even the Durant trade doesn’t turn into a title it’s still not an I told you so. We were not going to win a title as built after all the moves in the West.
 

Hoop Head

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I am saying that it seems to me that this thread (or any like it) simply exists so that people who didn't like the trade can have a repository for their "I told you so's." Every time one or both of them have a nice game, it seems it's going to be referenced here as if we lost that same value by trading them... which there is no evidence of, as they weren't producing the same results here, nor was there any sign that they would ever consistently do so.

I was saying that there was some specific reason(s) why that was, whether it was due to coaching philosophy... or some alternative reasons as you suggest. Whatever the case, the point is the trade isn't and never was going to be a one-to-one opportunity cost. Bridges/Cam were not going to achieve the same results here as Durant will. Never.

Now the draft picks we sent the Nets could always result in four superior players (although it's far more likely they won't), and we could well end up lamenting that. That's the chance you take with any trade - that what you give up ends up being less than you get.

As for trading Bridges for the four first rounders, that certainly wasn't going to win us anything in the near term... and would have been speculative at best in the long term. I would have been highly upset at such a trade, as I'm sure most everyone else here would have been.

I know I'm not looking for any "I told you so" sort of stuff. That's childish and also ridiculous as no one here should be keeping score, I know some do but that's not my intention. I just like talking about Mikal and Cam because they were 2 of my favorite players before being traded and I'm glad they're doing well. There have been polls hosted here that show Mikal was the majority of the boards favorite player over the last few season, from the lotto to the bubble to the finals to the Luka special, Mikal was here for a lot and made it all more bearable. Same goes for Cam but Mikal was always smiling and happy, he seemed like a genuinely good kid that we saw mature here.

I've gotten frustrated each time their outings in Brooklyn get mentioned that it boils down to someone dismissing their performances because they see it as some sort of attack or chance to discuss the trade. The deals done, nothing can undo that. I don't believe the majority of people who discuss the twins performances are doing so from a negative place or with a hidden agenda, they just want them to do well since they were a large part of this team over the last 4-5 years. They're ex-Suns but we don't need to hate them for it and can still wish they succeed and develop.

I'm tired of discussing the trade, I know I'm not alone in that regard. Nothing we say can walk it back. I thought discussing their play elsewhere was sort of the next step in moving forward but it seems someone always has to bring up the trade as if a poster here needs sold on it. Who cares if anyone is still against it? Unless they've got Adam Silver's ear and can get him to unwind it, there's no point in trying to sell anyone else at this juncture, we all need to move forward. That doesn't mean some us can't still enjoy seeing the twins be successful. I want the Suns to win first and foremost, the twins can win the other 80 games they play and I can root for them then also.

If anyone here is only mentioning their performances to keep it fresh to say "Told you so" later, go tell Mat Ishbia, maybe he'll hire you as GM since you're just so qualified. Let me know first and I'll whip up a letter of recommendation for ya.
 
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