Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

JohnnyCakes

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It can’t be any worse than a total collapse in the finals and then following that up with a historical NBA collapse last season.

Either we or going to add to that legacy or win it all.

Either way, this team wasn’t coming back mentally from the two disasters the last two seasons without a shake up.
Massive conjecture. They traded away their future
 

Covert Rain

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Massive conjecture. They traded away their future
No it's not. The team had a total collapse the next year after collapsing in the finals. On top of that a historic collapse leading the league in the regualar season and getting a bounced early. That is not even a leap to think that is carries over this year without changes.
 

JohnnyCakes

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No it's not. The team had a total collapse the next year after collapsing in the finals. On top of that a historic collapse leading the league in the regualar season and getting a bounced early. That is not even a leap to think that is carries over this year without changes.
Yes it is. you are not to assume a team will collapse every year based on the previous season. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes::bang:
 

Covert Rain

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Yes it is. you are not to assume a team will collapse every year based on the previous season. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes::bang:
Huh? No, I am assuming the team has some mental baggage which was proven after they went to the finals with the core of that team still intact and historically collapsing the next. You are assuming there isn't any after seeing proof? Uh.....OK.....yeah...huge leap. :rolleyes:
 

Covert Rain

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I get people getting upset about the picks we gave up but it's not like we have no picks for the next 6 years.
We also have a new owner who has made it obvious he will not be one to sit on his hands.
 

Hoop Head

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We also have a new owner who has made it obvious he will not be one to sit on his hands.

Which is great but how do you propose we bring someone in to play with Booker if Paul retires after this season? The Suns would still be capped out and have no assets to trade for anyone outside of Ayton, who isn't going to bring back a haul.

I said this elsewhere, it's hard for capped out teams to retool around 2-3 stars and history proves that in Miami, Cleveland, and LA. All around LeBron where they mortgaged their future to surround LeBron with pieces until they ran out of options. That's why this deal is dangerous. Of course a title makes it a win but no title and we're in the dregs, big-time.
 

Chaplin

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Which is great but how do you propose we bring someone in to play with Booker if Paul retires after this season? The Suns would still be capped out and have no assets to trade for anyone outside of Ayton, who isn't going to bring back a haul.

I said this elsewhere, it's hard for capped out teams to retool around 2-3 stars and history proves that in Miami, Cleveland, and LA. All around LeBron where they mortgaged their future to surround LeBron with pieces until they ran out of options. That's why this deal is dangerous. Of course a title makes it a win but no title and we're in the dregs, big-time.
Miami and Cleveland both won titles, so I'm still a little confused by all the negativity.

We need Durant to play ASAP.
 

GatorAZ

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Which is great but how do you propose we bring someone in to play with Booker if Paul retires after this season? The Suns would still be capped out and have no assets to trade for anyone outside of Ayton, who isn't going to bring back a haul.

I said this elsewhere, it's hard for capped out teams to retool around 2-3 stars and history proves that in Miami, Cleveland, and LA. All around LeBron where they mortgaged their future to surround LeBron with pieces until they ran out of options. That's why this deal is dangerous. Of course a title makes it a win but no title and we're in the dregs, big-time.
How CP3 looks in the playoffs will likely determine if he’s traded in the off-season. His semi-expiring deal has value and could allow us to take on a longer contract coming back... Yes, we can’t significantly upgrade the roster without assets but they can shake a lot up around the big-2 like the Clippers do.
 

Covert Rain

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Which is great but how do you propose we bring someone in to play with Booker if Paul retires after this season? The Suns would still be capped out and have no assets to trade for anyone outside of Ayton, who isn't going to bring back a haul.

I said this elsewhere, it's hard for capped out teams to retool around 2-3 stars and history proves that in Miami, Cleveland, and LA. All around LeBron where they mortgaged their future to surround LeBron with pieces until they ran out of options. That's why this deal is dangerous. Of course a title makes it a win but no title and we're in the dregs, big-time.
For starters I think the Suns are destination for players. Now that we have an owner (which according to players) that is no longer a hinderance we should be able to attract more free agents. We still have every other pick and if we don't win a title, Ayton to bargain with should the team move on from him. Everybody is acting like the team is totally devoid of possible moves.
 

Phrazbit

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For starters I think the Suns are destination for players. Now that we have an owner (which according to players) that is no longer a hinderance we should be able to attract more free agents. We still have every other pick and if we don't win a title, Ayton to bargain with should the team move on from him. Everybody is acting like the team is totally devoid of possible moves.

We can't trade any of those remaining picks, you're only allowed to trade first round picks every other year, the next first round pick we can move is 2031. We're also capped out, so all we have is the exemptions to sign free agents.

It's going to be a challenge.
 

Hoop Head

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Miami and Cleveland both won titles, so I'm still a little confused by all the negativity.

We need Durant to play ASAP.

We haven't won anything yet. Look how those clubs fizzled after winning. That's where we could be if we don't win. That's a big risk.
 

Covert Rain

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We can't trade any of those remaining picks, you're only allowed to trade first round picks every other year, the next first round pick we can move is 2031. We're also capped out, so all we have is the exemptions to sign free agents.

It's going to be a challenge.
You can't trade those picks but you can trade those players from those picks. Those are assets. You can still move Ayton and our new owner has stated he isn't afraid to spend money or pay the luxury tax to win.

If we win a title? It will all be worth it. If we don't? Sure it will be more challenging with fewer picks to play with but it's not like there is nothing he can do.
 
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Hoop Head

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You can't trade those picks but you can trade those players from those picks. Those are assets. You can still move Ayton and our new owner has stated he isn't afraid to spend money or pay the luxury tax to win. Sure it will be more challenging with fewer picks to play with but it's not like there is nothing he can do.

Those players who are paid a pittance as late round picks aren't bringing anything of value in return. Look up what the 21st through 30th picks are paid in their 1st year, its not even half the MLE. So that's not really tradeable assets for quality depth.
 

Phrazbit

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You can't trade those picks but you can trade those players from those picks. Those are assets. You can still move Ayton and our new owner has stated he isn't afraid to spend money or pay the luxury tax to win. Sure it will be more challenging with fewer picks to play with but it's not like there is nothing he can do.

Ayton is a murky asset, I don't really know what his market is. I don't see him landing us a star unless it's someone drenched in red flags.

As for the luxury tax, I'm thrilled he is willing to pay it but it doesn't change the fact that if you're over the cap the only free agents you are allowed to sign are minimum contracts or use the MLE, which tops out at 10 million.
 

Covert Rain

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Those players who are paid a pittance as late round picks aren't bringing anything of value in return. Look up what the 21st through 30th picks are paid in their 1st year, its not even half the MLE. So that's not really tradeable assets for quality depth.
There are always teams looking to make creative trades involving smaller contracts. It happens all the time. Again, not saying it's not going to be more challenging.

If we win a title? I don't care if we struggle for a period after. It will all be worth it. I am also not going to blast the team for trying and taking a risk. We have had decades of risk aversion from this organization.

Screw that.
 

Hoop Head

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For starters I think the Suns are destination for players. Now that we have an owner (which according to players) that is no longer a hinderance we should be able to attract more free agents. We still have every other pick and if we don't win a title, Ayton to bargain with should the team move on from him. Everybody is acting like the team is totally devoid of possible moves.

Being a destination is great, if we had a means to pay them and that's where there is an issue. We have nothing but the MLE.

CP3's deal become fully guaranteed before free agency which means he'll be an expiring deal of sorts because his next year isn't guaranteed but expiring deals don't hold the value they once did. Draft picks are key and we have none now.

I hope it works out but it was a gamble. I understand why the owner took the risk and respect his decision but its a tough pill to swallow after seeing the last 18 years under Sarver.
 

Covert Rain

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Being a destination is great, if we had a means to pay them and that's where there is an issue. We have nothing but the MLE.

CP3's deal become fully guaranteed before free agency which means he'll be an expiring deal of sorts because his next year isn't guaranteed but expiring deals don't hold the value they once did. Draft picks are key and we have none now.

I hope it works out but it was a gamble. I understand why the owner took the risk and respect his decision but its a tough pill to swallow after seeing the last 18 years under Sarver.
This team has gone through decades of risk aversion. Where has that gotten us? How many titles we have? Fans can't have it both ways. We can't go through decades of penny pinching and not taking risks then complain about not winning a title. Then turnaround when we do take risks and complain about taking those risks.

We don't have the luxury have being a storied franchise like the Lakers who can bring people in based on their decades of history and market size.
 

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You can't trade those picks but you can trade those players from those picks. Those are assets. You can still move Ayton and our new owner has stated he isn't afraid to spend money or pay the luxury tax to win.

If we win a title? It will all be worh it. If we don't? Sure it will be more challenging with fewer picks to play with but it's not like there is nothing he can do.
Like they did trading for Shamet on draft night even though OKC owned our pick the next year. On draft night 2024 the Suns could trade their 24’ 1st and pick swap rights in 26’ I believe. I think they kept that swap out of the trade for a reason. Of course who knows what will have happened by then.
 

Covert Rain

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So? Gotta play the games to win the chip. The goal is to put the best out there to do so. In my opinion that’s exactly what we’ve done.
No risk it no biscuit. It may not work out but I am proud of the organization for going all in. It doesn't happen that often.
 

Hoop Head

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So? Gotta play the games to win the chip. The goal is to put the best out there to do so. In my opinion that’s exactly what we’ve done.

We've acquired the best but we haven't put him out there yet because he's not healthy enough to play at the moment. That's what makes it such a big gamble. If he didn't have his injury history, he wouldn't have been available in a trade.
 

Covert Rain

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We've acquired the best but we haven't put him out there yet because he's not healthy enough to play at the moment. That's what makes it such a big gamble. If he didn't have his injury history, he wouldn't have been available in a trade.
I don't buy it. If KD wants to get traded he is getting traded injury history or not. There are some players in the league that will go and play where they want. It's always been that way. The only reason the Durant trade didn't happen sooner is because they talked him into waiting.
 

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How CP3 looks in the playoffs will likely determine if he’s traded in the off-season. His semi-expiring deal has value and could allow us to take on a longer contract coming back... Yes, we can’t significantly upgrade the roster without assets but they can shake a lot up around the big-2 like the Clippers do.
If CP3 doesn't show out in the playoffs (again), if he becomes discombobulated due to some young aggressive defender (again), if he gets injured (again), if he becomes a liability on defense (again) we may not see him (again)
 

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I don't buy it. If KD wants to get traded he is getting traded injury history or not. There are some players in the league that will go and play where they want. It's always been that way. The only reason the Durant trade didn't happen sooner is because they talked him into waiting.

We gave up way too much for anyone to claim this was KD forcing his way out. Did he agree? Sure. He wasn't pushing his way out of Brooklyn though and the price we paid showed who had leverage.

Regardless of that, you're shifting the narrative now and sidestepping the colossal price that was paid to say this is what winners do but we haven't won. KD hasn't even played yet. No one can call this deal a win at this juncture. I understand the excitement but there's a reason some of use of leery of the cost.
 
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