Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

Covert Rain

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I guess I believe in insurance. Cam Payne is better than some of the players on the tail end of the Suns roster.
You can't depend on Payne to be that insurance although I share your thought with needing another pure PG on the roster. I would prefer that over Bol.
 

Mainstreet

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You can't depend on Payne to be that insurance although I share your thought with needing another pure PG on the roster. I would prefer that over Bol.

With insurance, the hope is you don't need it, but if you do, it is there. Payne is capable of having a big game even in the playoffs. I'm not sure if the same can be said of Bol Bol.

However, I believe the Suns bigger need is insurance at forward/center and it is more likely needed at that position.
 

Mainstreet

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I think this season KD has out produced both Mikal and Cam. I think Cam is hurt though?...iirk

That was a nice group of players. It was sad to lose them. The trade is in the past.
 

Mainstreet

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The way that Isaiah Thomas was gushing over Bol Bol during the Detroit broadcast pretty much confirms that he (through Ishbia) had a big hand in bringing him here.

I think this is likely correct. Let's hope Ishbia got this one right, although I don't see it right now.
 

Cheesebeef

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Two out of 3 isn't bad to see. The Suns knew it was time to move on from Cam Payne and desperately needed new blood. Payne was about as unreliable as Ayton. It was cool to see them smiling together though. Even though I would have liked to see another pure PG signed this team has a ton of ball handling so I get why they didn't feel it was necessary. They also figured Gordon could handle most of those duties off the bench.
Tue problem with the idea that Gordon could handle those duties off the bench is the reality that because Book and Beal are so injury prone, that Gordon was probably going to have to start his fair share of games.

Considering that very real truth before the season and Getting rid of Payne for nothing was a mistake you could see coming from a mile away.
 

Cheesebeef

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You can't depend on Payne to be that insurance although I share your thought with needing another pure PG on the roster. I would prefer that over Bol.
You can depend on him producing at any level above Bol Bol.
 

Mainstreet

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They can sign buy-outs so long as the bought out player makes less than the league average salary annually, which is like $11-12m. It's just a little higher than the MLE. So say TJ McConnell is bought out later, he'd be able to sign here since his deal is less than that. I know we're not playing McConnell at C but he was the first name I thought of who would qualify to sign here if bought out due to his current salary.

This is good to know. I hadn't read this detail. The Suns seem to have interest in McConnell although he will probably be in demand.

Conceivably, they could also waive a second player and still go after a center if Ishbia is willing to pay the luxury tax.
 

Mainstreet

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Cam Payne and Mikal Bridges mess up the jersey swap. :)

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95pro

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Gordon has 23 assists to Payne's 6 for the season so far. Gordon is also scoring way better. That's what we were missing when Payne went awol. Gordon's numbers would look better had he not gotten off to a rough start. To me, even though Gordon really isn't a PG he is an improvement off the bench.

EG is averaging 3.3assists/game @ 30min/game, playing with better scorers and the starters.
Payne is averaging 1.0/game @ 14min/game, most likely garbage time with the 8 through 12 guys.

EG is definitely better at putting the ball through the hoop than Payne. I'd say Payne has better on the ball defense and handles.

Maybe the better comparison/contrast analysis would be for Payne and Goodwin.
 

AzStevenCal

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EG is averaging 3.3assists/game @ 30min/game, playing with better scorers and the starters.
Payne is averaging 1.0/game @ 14min/game, most likely garbage time with the 8 through 12 guys.

EG is definitely better at putting the ball through the hoop than Payne. I'd say Payne has better on the ball defense and handles.

Maybe the better comparison/contrast analysis would be for Payne and Goodwin.
I'm not sure Eric's logged all that many minutes with "better scorers"? And I see no value in comparing and contrasting Payne and Goodwin. Because the problem with Payne is how often he's injured and how long it takes him to return to form when healthy again. And if you ignore those injuries and his recovery process, he's a far better player than Goodwin - and probably a better all around player than Gordon if you're in need of a ballhandler.

We needed Payne but he showed us we couldn't rely on him. So we moved on from him. We gambled big that Booker, Beal, Gordon, Durant and Goodwin could handle the PG duties and right now, it's looking like a failure. But it's early. If it continues as it has though, it won't matter because the season will be a failure and the loss of Payne will be trivial compared to all the other mistakes we made getting to this point.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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We gambled big that Booker, Beal, Gordon, Durant and Goodwin could handle the PG duties and right now, it's looking like a failure. But it's early. If it continues as it has though, it won't matter because the season will be a failure and the loss of Payne will be trivial compared to all the other mistakes we made getting to this point.
Maybe because our two best playmakers off the dribble have both been out pretty much the whole season so far? :shrug:
 

AzStevenCal

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Maybe because our two best playmakers off the dribble have both been out pretty much the whole season so far? :shrug:
What's your point? I thought I was pretty clear when I said, we gambled big and so far we've lost. We gambled big that KD, Booker and Beal would be healthy. So far, that hasn't been the case but again, like I said in that same post, it's early. You can't judge the others right now or even the absence of CamP until we get everyone back or that fails to happen.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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What's your point? I thought I was pretty clear when I said, we gambled big and so far we've lost. We gambled big that KD, Booker and Beal would be healthy. So far, that hasn't been the case but again, like I said in that same post, it's early. You can't judge the others right now or even the absence of CamP until we get everyone back or that fails to happen.
You said it is currently looking like a failure. How can that be when we haven't seen what it actually looks like when the best players are on the floor.

You take the two best playmakers off the floor for any team and they will struggle. Imagine the Bucks without Giannis and Lillard right now.
 

AzStevenCal

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You said it is currently looking like a failure. How can that be when we haven't seen what it actually looks like when the best players are on the floor.

You take the two best playmakers off the floor for any team and they will struggle. Imagine the Bucks without Giannis and Lillard right now.
We gambled on injury prone players, it didn't pay off last season and it hasn't paid off thus far this season, that doesn't mean it won't pay off. I'm not predicting the future, just using that to explain why I don't believe it's fair to rip the organization for moving on from Payne. Sure, we need him right now but right now we don't have Booker or Beal. We took a gamble on KD, we doubled down going for Beal. Judging it right now makes no sense just because we could use another PG at this moment in time.
 

Covert Rain

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EG is averaging 3.3assists/game @ 30min/game, playing with better scorers and the starters.
Payne is averaging 1.0/game @ 14min/game, most likely garbage time with the 8 through 12 guys.

EG is definitely better at putting the ball through the hoop than Payne. I'd say Payne has better on the ball defense and handles.

Maybe the better comparison/contrast analysis would be for Payne and Goodwin.
4 assists says it all. Plus you can guarantee Payne will do a vanishing act like he always does. Plus, this is the same guy that at one point in the playoffs had more turnovers than assists.
 

Cheesebeef

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Bol Bol is not taking his roster spot. Gordon was brought in to be that punch off the bench.

Right… except because we start one of the most injury prone backcourts in the league, we needed more guards in the rotation and Payne could have and should have been one of those instead of giving him away for free.

And seeing as Bol Bol has no business on the court PERIOD, he’s absolutely taking a spot Payne could have.

This argument that giving him away for free makes any kind of sense is just typical “can’t admit I was wrong” nonsense that pollutes so many conversations on this board and in society in general.
 

Cheesebeef

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4 assists says it all. Plus you can guarantee Payne will do a vanishing act like he always does. Plus, this is the same guy that at one point in the playoffs had more turnovers than assists.
And yet WE STILL NEED ANOTHER PG.

There was absolutely no reason to get rid of him except to save money. All the move did was leave a perennially injured back court with less depth than they needed.
 

Phrazbit

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Bol Bol is not taking his roster spot. Gordon was brought in to be that punch off the bench.

There are players that belong on NBA rosters and there is Bol Bol. It might not be Payne's spot, but he's taking someone's spot.

Payne was injury prone and his shot was inconsistent but he was still one of the better backup point guards in the league. We'd be better with him than we are without him.
 

Covert Rain

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Right… except because we start one of the most injury prone backcourts in the league, we needed more guards in the rotation and Payne could have and should have been one of those instead of giving him away for free.

And seeing as Bol Bol has no business on the court PERIOD, he’s absolutely taking a spot Payne could have.

This argument that giving him away for free makes any kind of sense is just typical “can’t admit I was wrong” nonsense that pollutes so many conversations on this board and in society in general.
No doubt. It throws a wrinkle in things if we can’t get long stretches of health. You will also get no argument with Bol Bol. I am not sure why he is on this team. I know they were looking for more FC help but he isn’t it. Just about everybody cried about Payne and how he played the past two seasons. Is he a knew player? Speaking of polluting conversations …..great thing I don’t think giving a player away for free makes sense either….you know society and all.

There are players that belong on NBA rosters and there is Bol Bol. It might not be Payne's spot, but he's taking someone's spot.

Payne was injury prone and his shot was inconsistent but he was still one of the better backup point guards in the league. We'd be better with him than we are without him.
Oh I agree. I don’t get why Bol Bol is taking up a roster spot. However, the reason the Suns moved him is because he likely wouldn’t have gotten much playing time assuming the roster can stay healthy. Now if that actually happens is another story. We are not off to a good start in that regard.
 
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I was PISSED that Nash got traded from Phoenix. I saw a young guy with great potential. Then we got him back and he had developed into a top NBA player. Thinking Cam or Bridges could end up back on our team someday.
 

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