Watching the Twins succeed from afar.....

[Yuma]

Succeeding!!!

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I KNEW it would be over $100 mil. No way JJ could have kept him. Is Beal > Johnson. Yes! I love Cam though. Love he stays in Valley. I think it's for his younger brother who hoops here!

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Ayton has plenty of problems, but he's a much better player than Cam Johnson. I mean come on. Johnson is a good three-point shooter but is not above average in any other part of his game.

Ayton was not a better player than Cam Johnson last year according to LEBRON and RAPTOR. I think I would make that deal. Besides not having to question his motor, cam j is exactly what this team needs surrounding the stars. Ayton is not.

The Best NBA Players, According To RAPTOR

Our ratings use play-by-play and player-tracking data to calculate the value of every player in the NBA, updated daily.

projects.fivethirtyeight.com

 

[Hoop Head]

I KNEW it would be over $100 mil. No way JJ could have kept him. Is Beal > Johnson. Yes! I love Cam though. Love he stays in Valley. I think it's for his younger brother who hoops here!

Sorry but this idea the Suns couldn't have kept him is ridiculous. Cam and Mikal are making less combined than either Durant or Beal is individually. So not being able to afford him, doesn't make sense. His deal also ended up a bit higher because he became the 2nd option in Brooklyn, which is a major media market so many more eyes were on him. So the role change and market added probably 10% increase a piece. Lastly, he wanted to be here and would have taken a smaller deal to stay. There were reports an extension of 4y/$68m last off-season could have locked him in.

There's no world where Ishbia is our owner that the Suns couldn't afford to retain Cam J. I don't get why that is even suggested given how Ishbia has ran this team.

 

[Yuma]

Sorry but this idea the Suns couldn't have kept him is ridiculous. Cam and Mikal are making less combined than either Durant or Beal is individually. So not being able to afford him, doesn't make sense. His deal also ended up a bit higher because he became the 2nd option in Brooklyn, which is a major media market so many more eyes were on him. So the role change and market added probably 10% increase a piece. Lastly, he wanted to be here and would have taken a smaller deal to stay. There were reports an extension of 4y/$68m last off-season could have locked him in.

There's no world where Ishbia is our owner that the Suns couldn't afford to retain Cam J. I don't get why that is even suggested given how Ishbia has ran this team.

While I agree spending with Ishbia changed things, rumors were Cam's camp turned down offers in the range you quoted. So at the time it was Sarver, and the money was a no go, or we would have signed him. Now the debate is, is KD > Cam? Yes, and that is why he was included in the deal. In fact KD is perceived to be > Cam + Bridges.

Technically we could afford him, but he was need to get KD so it's a moot point. But if he had been kept by us, yes we could afford him even with Beal as long as we traded Ayton.

 

[Hoop Head]

While I agree spending with Ishbia changed things, rumors were Cam's camp turned down offers in the range you quoted. So at the time it was Sarver, and the money was a no go, or we would have signed him. Now the debate is, is KD > Cam? Yes, and that is why he was included in the deal. In fact KD is perceived to be > Cam + Bridges.

Technically we could afford him, but he was need to get KD so it's a moot point. But if he had been kept by us, yes we could afford him even with Beal as long as we traded Ayton.

Why are you saying that? Ayton is still here, we haven't dealt him and our payroll is approximately $50m more than had we retained The Twins. So why include the line about Ayton? Ishbia is willing to pay. You seem dead set on this narrative that we couldn't afford to pay Cam and when you admit we could have you say Ayton would have to be traded. Our salary would be a little lower though, with the Twins and Ayton even if the Beal trade was done so it's far from a forgone conclusion Ayton would have to be dealt.

 

[Yuma]

Why are you saying that? Ayton is still here, we haven't dealt him and our payroll is approximately $50m more than had we retained The Twins. So why include the line about Ayton? Ishbia is willing to pay. You seem dead set on this narrative that we couldn't afford to pay Cam and when you admit we could have you say Ayton would have to be traded. Our salary would be a little lower though, with the Twins and Ayton even if the Beal trade was done so it's far from a forgone conclusion Ayton would have to be dealt.

Sure! I'll give you that. The only thing I think you had wrong is Sarver did offer what you said, and Cam turned it down and bet on himself. It paid off for Cam.

 

[Hoop Head]

Sure! I'll give you that. The only thing I think you had wrong is Sarver did offer what you said, and Cam turned it down and bet on himself. It paid off for Cam.

All reports last summer were that we low balled Cam. I recall reports below $50m. I believe it was Gambo who said something like $16-18m annually would have got a deal done but Sarver being Sarver pulled a Joe Johnson and told him to bring back a bigger offer.

 

[Yuma]

This was from the AZ Republic: "but the Suns have $131 million tied into five players next season — Devin Booker, Deandre Ayton, Mikal Bridges, Landry Shamet and Paul.

And Phoenix was negotiating with Johnson on a rookie extension that would’ve kicked in next season, but the two sides couldn’t agree on a deal. Sources informed The Republic the two sides were in the same area code, but Johnson wanted more than Phoenix's offer of $60 million over four seasons.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sorry but this idea the Suns couldn't have kept him is ridiculous. Cam and Mikal are making less combined than either Durant or Beal is individually. So not being able to afford him, doesn't make sense. His deal also ended up a bit higher because he became the 2nd option in Brooklyn, which is a major media market so many more eyes were on him. So the role change and market added probably 10% increase a piece. Lastly, he wanted to be here and would have taken a smaller deal to stay. There were reports an extension of 4y/$68m last off-season could have locked him in.

There's no world where Ishbia is our owner that the Suns couldn't afford to retain Cam J. I don't get why that is even suggested given how Ishbia has ran this team.

He could have easily wanted to test his value as a RFA which would have been smart. There were rumors he wanted to start and that teams were willing to pay him $80 million. As the article states he wanted more than the Suns were rumored to offer. The Suns would have also had to commit to him at that salary as their starter.

I think you are right that it wouldn’t have been a money thing once Ishbia took over but there was more to it. The KD deal proves that James Jones and Ishbia had no problems moving on from him considering what resigning him may have meant longer term.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess a lesson to be learned, if one jokes around too much, it may come true.

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[Mainstreet]

Happy Birthday, Mikal!

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[Mainstreet]

I miss you guys.

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[Hoop Head]

I miss you guys.

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Losing the Twins was bad enough but at least could be spun as a basketball decision. Sending Cam Payne off in a salary dump didn't make sense at the time and still doesn't. Worst case, Cam Payne is warming a seat like Bol Bol is currently but I seriously doubt that would be happening if he were healthy enough to play.

 

[Mainstreet]

Losing the Twins was bad enough but at least could be spun as a basketball decision. Sending Cam Payne off in a salary dump didn't make sense at the time and still doesn't. Worst case, Cam Payne is warming a seat like Bol Bol is currently but I seriously doubt that would be happening if he were healthy enough to play.

It's perplexing why the Suns went with Bol Bol over Cam Payne.

Now, if the Suns added another big man that could play like Biz, I could better understand it.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's perplexing why the Suns went with Bol Bol over Cam Payne.

Now, if the Suns added another big man that could play like Biz, I could better understand it.

Unless Bol is part of the rotation come the trade deadline, or has some sort of role established where he's used against certain teams, then the Suns need to waive him. They need a legitimate 3rd string C or PF/C who can come in and play when needed. Biz would have been perfect and maybe the stars align and he'll be let loose around then if Memphis is still struggling. Who knows. There's always some serviceable players waived around the trade deadline who could slide into a 2nd or 3rd string role.

If James Jones keeps Bol on the roster all year to be the oversized victory cigar, that might be my boiling point with him. I get it, Bol is young and may develop but he's on a 1 year deal also so there's no guarantee he'll return beyond this season, which means we should only have so much interest in developing him beyond this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

Unless Bol is part of the rotation come the trade deadline, or has some sort of role established where he's used against certain teams, then the Suns need to waive him. They need a legitimate 3rd string C or PF/C who can come in and play when needed. Biz would have been perfect and maybe the stars align and he'll be let loose around then if Memphis is still struggling. Who knows. There's always some serviceable players waived around the trade deadline who could slide into a 2nd or 3rd string role.

If James Jones keeps Bol on the roster all year to be the oversized victory cigar, that might be my boiling point with him. I get it, Bol is young and may develop but he's on a 1 year deal also so there's no guarantee he'll return beyond this season, which means we should only have so much interest in developing him beyond this year.

The Suns really need a third center or power forward that can play both positions. I'm not sure if Nurkic can hold up physically all season plus the playoffs.

I don't understand James Jones signing Bol Bol. Developing players is not his thing. Maybe Mat Ishbia had a big say in the matter.

If I'm the Suns I'd be kicking the bushes to find another center. It's tough they will not be able to sign any buyouts. Also, they still have a two-way spot they can fill.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Suns really need a third center or power forward that can play both positions. I'm not sure if Nurkic can hold up physically all season plus the playoffs.

I don't understand James Jones signing Bol Bol. Developing players is not his thing. Maybe Mat Ishbia had a big say in the matter.

If I'm the Suns I'd be kicking the bushes to find another center. It's tough they will not be able to sign any buyouts. Also, they still have a two-way spot they can fill.

They can sign buy-outs so long as the bought out player makes less than the league average salary annually, which is like $11-12m. It's just a little higher than the MLE. So say TJ McConnell is bought out later, he'd be able to sign here since his deal is less than that. I know we're not playing McConnell at C but he was the first name I thought of who would qualify to sign here if bought out due to his current salary.

 

[JerkFace]

I don't understand James Jones signing Bol Bol. Developing players is not his thing. Maybe Mat Ishbia had a big say in the matter.

The way that Isaiah Thomas was gushing over Bol Bol during the Detroit broadcast pretty much confirms that he (through Ishbia) had a big hand in bringing him here.

 

[Phrazbit]

The way that Isaiah Thomas was gushing over Bol Bol during the Detroit broadcast pretty much confirms that he (through Ishbia) had a big hand in bringing him here.

I suspect that it's a poorly hidden secret at this point... Jones is basically an advisor and Ishbia is running the show with Thomas as his primary advisor.

My only red flag with Ishbia is his closeness to Thomas (aka Zeke). Thomas has a sound track record as one of the worst executives in sports history... pretty much anything he does is not just idiotic but short sighted to an extreme degree and drenched in personal bias.

I think Jones gets a bad rep here. He took over a bottom feeder and turned it into a contender in under 2 years. People complain about his drafting of older players and trading picks as a sign that he "hates youth and picks"... but Sarver had a long timeline of selling picks, dumping picks, he finally lets McD draft raw guys and McD whiffs on every pick he made except Booker...

Jones took over with a mandate to turn a trash heap into a winner, and he did it, really quick. He also did it while retaining a wealth of trade and draft capitol and without expoding the payroll. It is a really underrated achievement; especially under a trash, cheap, meddlesome owner like Sarver.

Jones is now under a better owner, a more spend happy owner, an owner waaay more comitted to success and the fan base... but... the new guy might be even more meddlesome than Sarver.

 

[95pro]

I miss you guys.

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I think this season KD has out produced both Mikal and Cam. I think Cam is hurt though?...iirk

 

[Covert Rain]

I miss you guys.

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Two out of 3 isn't bad to see. The Suns knew it was time to move on from Cam Payne and desperately needed new blood. Payne was about as unreliable as Ayton. It was cool to see them smiling together though. Even though I would have liked to see another pure PG signed this team has a ton of ball handling so I get why they didn't feel it was necessary. They also figured Gordon could handle most of those duties off the bench.

 

[Sparky16]

I KNEW it would be over $100 mil. No way JJ could have kept him. Is Beal > Johnson. Yes! I love Cam though. Love he stays in Valley. I think it's for his younger brother who hoops here!

I would trade Beal for Johnson - Cam fills the need for a small fwd with size better than Beal - they both seem to be made of glass though

 

[95pro]

Two out of 3 isn't bad to see. The Suns knew it was time to move on from Cam Payne and desperately needed new blood. Payne was about as unreliable as Ayton. It was cool to see them smiling together though. Even though I would have liked to see another pure PG signed this team has a ton of ball handling so I get why they didn't feel it was necessary. They also figured Gordon could handle most of those duties off the bench.

Gordon has so few assists, but he is our 2nd best scorer so far this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Two out of 3 isn't bad to see. The Suns knew it was time to move on from Cam Payne and desperately needed new blood. Payne was about as unreliable as Ayton. It was cool to see them smiling together though. Even though I would have liked to see another pure PG signed this team has a ton of ball handling so I get why they didn't feel it was necessary. They also figured Gordon could handle most of those duties off the bench.

I guess I believe in insurance. Cam Payne is better than some of the players on the tail end of the Suns roster.

 

[Covert Rain]

Gordon has so few assists, but he is our 2nd best scorer so far this season.

Gordon has 23 assists to Payne's 6 for the season so far. Gordon is also scoring way better. That's what we were missing when Payne went awol. Gordon's numbers would look better had he not gotten off to a rough start. To me, even though Gordon really isn't a PG he is an improvement off the bench.