TWolves, Warriors talk trade for Anthony Randolph

[tobiazz]

True but that is not always an indication of what would happen if he played 35 minutes a game. I can't remember who did it before but someone here posted what the Suns players #'s would be off the bench if they started based on the per minutes. It was really crazy.

I have not looked up his college numbers but did he under perform in college by chance?

Team Games 31
Games Played 31
Games Started 31
Min Per Game 32.8
FG Pct 46.4
3pt FG Pct 10.5
FT Pct 69.3
Pts Per Game 15.6
RPG 8.5
Off Rebs Per Game 2.8
Def Rebs Per Game 5.7
Assists Per Game 1.2
Steals Per Game 1.1
A/T Ratio 0.4
Blocks Per Game 2.3

Pretty good numbers for a freshman in the relevant categories.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

True but that is not always an indication of what would happen if he played 35 minutes a game. I can't remember who did it before but someone here posted what the Suns players #'s would be off the bench if they started based on the per minutes. It was really crazy.

I have not looked up his college numbers but did he under perform in college by chance?

I averaged out only the games in which he played 30 minutes or over this season. His stats per game: 32.6 minutes, 17 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks. His salary is 1.8 million. Not bad eh?

 

[cly2tw]

The problem with Randolph is right now he's one of those guys who makes the spectacular play, the drive and dunk, the big block etc, but he doesn't make all the little plays that help you win games. He holds the ball too long, he doesn't really score in the post as well as he should because he he can't hold his position, not strong enough. His outside shot is improving but still needs work, his defense is all going for steals and blocks, gives up position way too easily.

he has a world of talent and when he's right he can look outstanding in Nellie's system, but slow the game down and he can just disappear. It's the same problem Morrow has in a halfcourt game he has a tendency to just disappear because if you guard the 3 he does little else. In fullcourt he can leak out or drift to the corners and get open 3's in transition, and he's developed a fake and drive move, but in the halfcourt he doesn't do any of that.

The Twolves really only have 2 players I'd want as a Warriors fan, Jefferson or Kevin Love. IF they can't get either of them I'd much rather seem them trade for the pick and get DeMarcus Cousins, I know he's immature and has conditioning issues but his upside is enormous.

Thanks for the information, that's not just speculation on stats numbers.

As I said, Suns fans too easy get high on athletic bigs. Most if not all of the pro-Randolph guys here have been Wilcox, Tyrus Thomas proponents over the years. They all share the label of potentially better choice for the Suns than Amare. Add JJ Hickson to that list.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Thanks for the information, that's not just speculation on stats numbers.

As I said, Suns fans too easy get high on athletic bigs. Most if not all of the pro-Randolph guys here have been Wilcox, Tyrus Thomas proponents over the years. They all share the label of potentially better choice for the Suns than Amare. Add JJ Hickson to that list.

Try to understand something cly, Amare is either gone or is going to choke this team's payroll for way more than he delivers. Neither is a good option. A young big that relies on athleticism and explosiveness is better than an older big with knee issues that relies on athleticism and explosiveness who IS GOING TO WALK OR BE HIGHLY OVERPAID. I want you to write that down 100 times until it sinks in. Dollar for dollar, no one is saying take Randolph over Stoudemire. However, if you're giving me these two scenarios: A) Randolph at 1.8 mil or nothing cuz Amare walks B) Randolph at 1.8 mil or Amare at 110 mil/6 years, give me Randolph a thousand times over. Let me say that again, in these two scenarios, give me Randolph a thousand times over. Get it?


PS if you look above I posted Randolph's game numbers when he averaged over 30 minutes per contest. There's some actual, non-speculative data for you. Funny how you missed it.

 

[Covert Rain]

I averaged out only the games in which he played 30 minutes or over this season. His stats per game: 32.6 minutes, 17 points, 9.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks. His salary is 1.8 million. Not bad eh?

It seems good on paper but like I said it's not as simple as saying if he plays more minutes he will keep up that pace. I have to find that thread and post where someone did a break down of all the Suns players. Using that logic it made our starters look like Stars if they started.

It's possible he could do more with more minutes. Either way, in a few short weeks we will know if the Suns are looking for another PF or not.

 

[cly2tw]

Try to understand something cly, Amare is either gone or is going to choke this team's payroll for way more than he delivers. Neither is a good option. A young big that relies on athleticism and explosiveness is better than an older big with knee issues that relies on athleticism and explosiveness who IS GOING TO WALK OR BE HIGHLY OVERPAID. I want you to write that down 100 times until it sinks in. Dollar for dollar, no one is saying take Randolph over Stoudemire. However, if you're giving me these two scenarios: A) Randolph at 1.8 mil or nothing cuz Amare walks B) Randolph at 1.8 mil or Amare at 110 mil/6 years, give me Randolph a thousand times over. Let me say that again, in these two scenarios, give me Randolph a thousand times over. Get it?


PS if you look above I posted Randolph's game numbers when he averaged over 30 minutes per contest. There's some actual, non-speculative data for you. Funny how you missed it.

I will give you the choices: A) Amare so that Suns have say 10% chance of winning the title each of the next two years with Nash, with almost sure WCF appearance or B) Randolph and Suns starting to suck while rebuilding right away, barely playoff team with one-and-done at most.

I for one am glad we never did you guys the favor to get Tyrus Thomas or Randolph. Oops, Randolph has never been offered to the Suns anyway, just some wet dream.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I will give you the choices: A) Amare so that Suns have say 10% chance of winning the title each of the next two years with Nash, with almost sure WCF appearance or B) Randolph and Suns starting to suck while rebuilding right away, barely playoff team with one-and-done at most.

I for one am glad we never did you guys the favor to get Tyrus Thomas or Randolph. Oops, Randolph has never been offered to the Suns anyway, just some wet dream.

Now who's speculating .


And please stop bringing up Tyrus Thomas to me. I never said anything about Tyrus Thomas, never wanted the guy, never asked for the guy. Stop lumping me in with whatever prior discussions with previous posters that are still bouncing around that obviously over-crowded dome of yours. I want Randolph because, unlike you, I fathom the concept that we are either losing Amare or going to be confined to mediocrity by paying him too much.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It amazes me how dissatisfied people are with this last year. This last year was awesome.

 

[itlnsunsfan]

No one's saying this year wasn't awesome. This year was absolutely awesome and very satisfying. My original point was that Randolph is available and what would it take for the Suns to get him since our time with Amare appears to be at an end. Nothing about this year. Then later I mentioned how great it would have been to get Randolph and Curry in that GS trade a year ago. I feel that it would have set us up to be extremely strong and on the rise for years to come. This set off a debate with Cly who understands Amare is better than Randolph, but doesn't seem to understand Randolph is better than nothing or Randolph is better than Amare at 110 mil/6 years. No one is saying this year was not awesome. However, I would trade this trip to the WCF for a move that I feel would put this team on the rise for years to come, namely Amare for Randolph and Curry. Once again though, this was not my original discussion, just merely an off shoot.

 

[Chaplin]

It amazes me how dissatisfied people are with this last year. This last year was awesome.

Exactly. It took just a few days before the old doom and gloom pervaded the board.

The big problem as I see it is not all the anti-Amare talk, but the fact that it will be probably until July 8th before it will start tapering off.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I will give you the choices: A) Amare so that Suns have say 10% chance of winning the title each of the next two years with Nash, with almost sure WCF appearance

I think the odds of us making it to the WCF again next year fall closer to the slim to none category. And that's IF Amare plays a full season for us. How you have us as an almost guaranteed WCF team in the next 2 seasons is beyond me. Barring a major lineup change I give us a 10% chance of making it to the WCF and about a 1% chance of winning it all.

Steve

 

[itlnsunsfan]

Fact: Amare will either walk or be highly overpaid. Call it doom and gloom. Call it whatever you want. It's still fact.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Exactly. It took just a few days before the old doom and gloom pervaded the board.

I don't see much doom and gloom attitude around here. It's not people bitching about decisions made, it's people talking mostly positively about decisions that might/should be made to improve the franchise long term.

The only real depressing conversations hinge on the possibility that we will sign Amare to a max length/max dollar contract the same year that the CBA gets drastically re-structured. But I think most of us believe the organization will be smart enough to either trade him or contract with him at a much safer salary.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Fact: Amare will either walk or be highly overpaid. Call it doom and gloom. Call it whatever you want. It's still fact.

I don't think that's a fact. It's two possibilities but there are others. It's possible that Amare will agree to a 6 year deal in the 90 million dollar range. I don't know if it's likely but I do think it's possible. It's also possible he'll agree to work with us in setting up a sign and trade.

Steve

 

[itlnsunsfan]

I don't think that's a fact. It's two possibilities but there are others. It's possible that Amare will agree to a 6 year deal in the 90 million dollar range. I don't know if it's likely but I do think it's possible. It's also possible he'll agree to work with us in setting up a sign and trade.

Steve

6 years is too long but at least that contract would be more palatable. However, that would mean he'd be taking a pay reduction. Something like 15 mil per year which is about 3 mil less than he made this year. Everybody who feels he's agreeing to that say aye. Anybody? Hello, anybody? A sign and trade is possible but we're not likely to get much of value, as Amare would not want to clean out his new team's talent just so he can hop aboard a bottom feeder. Still, this is probably our best scenario. Hopefully we could squeeze a couple nice assets. It's a long shot but maybe. And then maybe turn around and package those for Randolph pretty please .

 

[mojorizen7]

It amazes me how dissatisfied people are with this last year. This last year was awesome.

Where is this going on?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Something like 15 mil per year which is about 3 mil less than he made this year. Everybody who feels he's agreeing to that say aye. Anybody? Hello, anybody?

The only reason I think it has an outside chance of happening is I believe the teams have or will soon have a good idea of the parameters of the next CBA. They may not know all the final details but the league has to have a pretty good idea of where it needs salaries to be in order for all teams to remain financially viable. If there's likely to be a significant reduction in salaries it won't be long before that information filters out to the agents and players.

Steve

 

[Covert Rain]

The only reason I think it has an outside chance of happening is I believe the teams have or will soon have a good idea of the parameters of the next CBA. They may not know all the final details but the league has to have a pretty good idea of where it needs salaries to be in order for all teams to remain financially viable. If there's likely to be a significant reduction in salaries it won't be long before that information filters out to the agents and players.

Steve

I would be for that. Getting him for around 15 million would still leave some future flexibility. It sounds like the Suns are going to stand pat regardless of what we are all speculating and wishing would happen.

I really hope if the Suns don't go in another direction, that Amare doesn't get the max. I think he could with another team but I maybe I am putting to much hope on this front office to do something.

 

[elindholm]

The only reason I think it has an outside chance of happening is I believe the teams have or will soon have a good idea of the parameters of the next CBA. They may not know all the final details but the league has to have a pretty good idea of where it needs salaries to be in order for all teams to remain financially viable. If there's likely to be a significant reduction in salaries it won't be long before that information filters out to the agents and players.

I disagree. Players always talk about how they want to go someplace they can win titles, but it's rarely true. They want money.

This whole thing about how Stoudemire wants the Suns to convince him that they're serious about competing is a farce. The conversation should go like this:

Stoudemire: So, are you guys going to keep contending if I stay?

Kerr: I don't know, Amar'e, you tell me. Are you going to learn to rebound? Are you going to bring your best effort in the playoffs? Are you going to fix your free-throw shooting? Those things are up to you, not me. If you do those, we have a good shot. Otherwise, probably not.

Stoudemire: Oh, uh, duh, leadership, Wikipedia, um ... okay. Tell me again how much money you can pay me?

Duncan took a below-market extension in order to help the Spurs, but cases like that are extremely rare, and it's worth noting that Duncan did it after he'd already won four titles with his team. I can't think of a single case where a max-level player in the prime of his career took less money in the name of winning.

As for the upcoming changes to the CBA, that doesn't affect what a player can be paid now, which is all they and their agents care about. Players don't want "the max" because it's some particular number; they want it because it's the most they can get.

The question of how the league will implement salary reductions with the next CBA is a fascinating one. Unless they go to a hard cap, team with high payrolls will be able to keep everyone around, at least until their current contracts expire. So that will widen the gap between the teams that are spending freely now and those that are more budget-conscious. It's going to take some clever minds to figure out how to do it in a way that doesn't make a joke of the transition.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As for the upcoming changes to the CBA, that doesn't affect what a player can be paid now, which is all they and their agents care about. Players don't want "the max" because it's some particular number; they want it because it's the most they can get.

I am so NOT suggesting that the players and agents will willingly take less for some altruistic reason. I'm suggesting that although it's a long shot, the teams themselves will show some fiscal restraint and not offer contracts that will clearly become untenable under the new CBA. Sorry, if I didn't make that clear in my earlier post.

The reason this would be a long shot is that there are a few organizations (New York most notably) that need to make a splash regardless of cost. If one of them sets their sights on Amare we can either pay him the max or wave goodbye.

Steve

 

[HooverDam]

C: Lopez
PF: Randolph
SF: Clark
SG: ??? (Mayo, Iggy, Draft pick etc)
PG: Dragic
.

Bleck! That team would win about 20 games a year, just awful. There's no one there thats a star who can carry the load, those are all secondary type guys, even if they develop none of them have shown the potential to be 20ppg+ guys.

 

[Covert Rain]

Bleck! That team would win about 20 games a year, just awful. There's no one there thats a star who can carry the load, those are all secondary type guys, even if they develop none of them have shown the potential to be 20ppg+ guys.

I wouldn't like that team either. Although, if you are trying to develop young talent versus get to the playoffs, I could see the Suns going there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

C: Lopez
PF: Randolph
SF: Clark
SG: ??? (Mayo, Iggy, Draft pick etc)
PG: Dragic

Bleck! That team would win about 20 games a year, just awful. There's no one there thats a star who can carry the load, those are all secondary type guys, even if they develop none of them have shown the potential to be 20ppg+ guys.

I'm not sure about that. They wouldn't compete for a championship but if the SG was Mayo I could see them being a playoff team fairly soon (2 or 3 years). I really don't know much about Randolph but just looking at numbers that could turn out to be a pretty solid front line.

Steve

 

[Russ Smith]

EDIT: I have no idea how he would have gained 20 pounds of muscle with the season only recently ending, but if he is able to put on weight at all, he can keep improving in that area, which should help vastly in rebounding.

ESPN reported that one local reporter said he cant' confirm it and he's highly skeptical because 20 pounds of muscle in a short period of time is damn near impossible no matter how skinny one is. 20 pounds yes, of muscle, highly unlikely.

 

[Russ Smith]

Randolph is similar to a Young Garnett.


6.5 rebs and 12 points and about 1 block in 22 mins with Monta Ellis and Magette jacking up shots as your team mates is pretty good.


The guy is 7'0, same coordination as Garnett also.... has put on 20 pounds... has a nice vertical... great wingspan....

give him rebounding tips and keep working with him and he'll be your 20/12 player in 3-4 seasons.... if not 2.

Yeah but he doesn't play nearly as hard as KG does or even did as a kid. I like Randolph's upside but he's the classic kid when things are going well he's a world beater, when he faces adversity, he often backs down.