Trading Marion

[Joe Mama]

Joe,
What is the matter with you lately? George or anyone else has the right to say they are bored with the trading of Marion, and you can certainly disgree with him, and tell him so, but telling someone that maybe they should not read these threads is certainly not just disagreeing with him.
Being a moderator your words carry more weight than others, and you seem to be going after people lately.
You certanly are not acting like a moderator when you say those words above!

I'm really not sure what the problem is with this. George lets us all know every once in awhile that he finds our topic of discussion boring. The simple answer is if he finds it boring to talk about trading Shawn Marion why does he bother to read and post in a thread clearly labeled "Trading Marion". It's not like there's any shortage of discussions going on on this message board right now.

Joe Mama

 

[azirish]

I'm really not sure what the problem is with this. George lets us all know every once in awhile that he finds our topic of discussion boring. The simple answer is if he finds it boring to talk about trading Shawn Marion why does he bother to read and post in a thread clearly labeled "Trading Marion". It's not like there's any shortage of discussions going on on this message board right now.

Joe Mama

I skim over them pretty quickly. As it is, most "trade Marion" stuff is in threads with titles that have nothing to do with Marion. Likewise, I would hate to count the number threads that were hijacked into Kobe threads. There are many threads I only open and then immediately close to clear their bold.

The problem I have with some of these topics is how quickly they degenerate into "oh yeh" "says who" stuff. There is no consensus on Marion, Kobe, etc. so it is hard to avoid. "Well my opinion is..." followed by "Well my opinion is..." and on and on.

When someone gives concrete examples, stats, quotes, etc. to support their opinions, then there is at least a starting point for discussion. But some topics seem well beyond that point so "PageDown" gets a lot of work.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I skim over them pretty quickly. As it is, most "trade Marion" stuff is in threads with titles that have nothing to do with Marion. Likewise, I would hate to count the number threads that were hijacked into Kobe threads. There are many threads I only open and then immediately close to clear their bold.

The problem I have with some of these topics is how quickly they degenerate into "oh yeh" "says who" stuff. There is no consensus on Marion, Kobe, etc. so it is hard to avoid. "Well my opinion is..." followed by "Well my opinion is..." and on and on.

When someone gives concrete examples, stats, quotes, etc. to support their opinions, then there is at least a starting point for discussion. But some topics seem well beyond that point so "PageDown" gets a lot of work.

so, now that George has apparently contradicted himself, complaining about hijacking in a thread he completely hijacked, can we get back to the topic at hand? You know, Joe Mama going off the deep end?

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

PHX
Out: Marion
In: S&T Brown, S&T Nocioni, Luke Ridnour, Thabo Sefalosha

CHI
Out: Nocioni, Brown, Sefalosha
In: Lewis

SEA
Out: Lewis, Ridnour
In: Marion

 

[dodie53]

why would chicago do that trade?

 

[Divide Et Impera]

PHX
Out: Marion
In: S&T Brown, S&T Nocioni, Luke Ridnour, Thabo Sefalosha

CHI
Out: Nocioni, Brown, Sefalosha
In: Lewis

SEA
Out: Lewis, Ridnour
In: Marion

A s&t would have to have 2 transactions for 2 s&t,s, but I would take that trade IF we were also able to lose Banks and get either a conditional #1 from either team (I don't care) or a backup frontcourt player (ie, Collison, Allen, Petro).

So:

Marion for Nocioni/Sefalosha/Ridnour/#1(or Collison)

Banks for Brown

Nash-Ridnour
Bell-Barbosa
Nocioni-Sefalosha
Stoudemire-Collison
Diaw-Brown-Thomas

Hmmm. I don't know if that really makes us better. Certainly we're deeper, butnot necessarily better. I think I would then try to trade Barbosa/Diaw for some asset at the 3 (ie, GWallace s&t) so we can put Sefalosha back to the 2....

 

[azirish]

I agree that it's very, very unlikely that Marion will opt out, especially if he is still with the Suns.

I think this a very interesting comment. (If I hadn't been reading I might have missed it). Seriously.

I will go even further and say that in two years I think he will end up re-signing with the Suns, but at a much lower rate of pay (though a sign and trade is not out of the question.)

 

[elindholm]

I will go even further and say that in two years I think he will end up re-signing with the Suns, but at a much lower rate of pay (though a sign and trade is not out of the question.)

It's not out of the question, but I kind of doubt it. The Suns and Marion evidently have quite a difference of opinion on how valuable he is to the club. In two years, Nash will be at the end of the road and the championship window will have closed. So Marion will have to choose between a major pay cut with a team that is no longer contending, or (he hopes) something closer to maintaining his salary with a team that has aspirations of short-term improvement. Given his ego problems, I think he'll have a pretty easy decision.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will go even further and say that in two years I think he will end up re-signing with the Suns, but at a much lower rate of pay (though a sign and trade is not out of the question.)

i will go on record right now and say I believe there is ZERO chance that the above happens.

 

[Chaplin]

I will say that I have no idea, because I think there is such a disconnect between Marion and virtually everyone else in the entire world (except maybe his mother).

 

[Gaddabout]

Not to mention that two years for Marion's legs, his primary asset, to lose their pep. He's going to be one of those players that gets old faster than you think. He may just vanish on his 33rd birthday.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I will say that I have no idea, because I think there is such a disconnect between Marion and virtually everyone else in the entire world (except maybe his mother).

lol.

 

[jlove]

I read that the Bulls are exploring a sign and trade for Nocioni. Marion to the Bulls for a resigned Nocioni and filler. I'm not sure what Nocioni is looking for, but I think a contract similar to Diaw's of 9 mil per would be fair, although Diaw hasn't earned his yet. It would probably be difficult for the Bulls to come up with contracts to match Marion's, and it's debatable whether Chicago would even want Marion with the players that they currently have. I just think that Nocioni would be a perfect fit for the Suns with his gritty play and good shooting.

Has anyone thought that there might have been a trade on ht ebooks already? Something between the Bull and Suns PRIOR to the draft. A trade that can't be consumated until after July 15th (end of moretorium for Free Agents)?

Bulls get:
Marion ($16.440)
Banks ($3.888)
Atlanta pick in 08
Salary Out: $20.328 mil

Suns get:
Nocioni (S&T starting @ $9 mil)
Duhon ($3.248 mil)
PJ Brown (S&T starting @ 5 mil)
Noah (Signed @ $1.78 mil)
Salary Out: $19.028

Then trade off KT and the Suns 08 pick to Charlotte for Rights to Jamereo Davidson.

Suns line-up:
Nash
Bell
Nocioni
Amare
Brown

Bench: Barbosa, Diaw, Duhon, Noah, Tucker, Strawberry, Davidson

 

[Chaplin]

Has anyone thought that there might have been a trade on ht ebooks already? Something between the Bull and Suns PRIOR to the draft. A trade that can't be consumated until after July 15th (end of moretorium for Free Agents)?

Bulls get:
Marion ($16.440)
Banks ($3.888)
Atlanta pick in 08
Salary Out: $20.328 mil

Suns get:
Nocioni (S&T starting @ $9 mil)
Duhon ($3.248 mil)
PJ Brown (S&T starting @ 5 mil)
Noah (Signed @ $1.78 mil)
Salary Out: $19.028

Then trade off KT and the Suns 08 pick to Charlotte for Rights to Jamereo Davidson.

Suns line-up:
Nash
Bell
Nocioni
Amare
Brown

Bench: Barbosa, Diaw, Duhon, Noah, Tucker, Strawberry, Davidson

That's a pretty big stretch.

 

[jlove]

Hell, I'd even take out Banks and PJ

Marion
Atlanta 08 pick

for

Nocioni (S&T starting @ $9 mil)
Duhon
Rights to Noah

The Suns get Nocioni who is on his way to similar to Marions (I'm not saying the same or that he will exceed Marions stats). A great defensive back-up to Nash in Duhon, and the guy I believe the Suns were trying to move up to get in Noah (who would be great next to Amare.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's a pretty big stretch.

especially considering that the Bulls have pretty much no use for Marion seeing as they already have Deng as their SF.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Nocioni would fit in so well with the suns. I have dreams about that man in purple and oj.

 

[Folster]

Has anyone thought that there might have been a trade on ht ebooks already? Something between the Bull and Suns PRIOR to the draft. A trade that can't be consumated until after July 15th (end of moretorium for Free Agents)?

Bulls get:
Marion ($16.440)
Banks ($3.888)
Atlanta pick in 08
Salary Out: $20.328 mil

Suns get:
Nocioni (S&T starting @ $9 mil)
Duhon ($3.248 mil)
PJ Brown (S&T starting @ 5 mil)
Noah (Signed @ $1.78 mil)
Salary Out: $19.028

Then trade off KT and the Suns 08 pick to Charlotte for Rights to Jamereo Davidson.

Suns line-up:
Nash
Bell
Nocioni
Amare
Brown

Bench: Barbosa, Diaw, Duhon, Noah, Tucker, Strawberry, Davidson

Impossible! Bucher, Grey, or Ford would have uncovered that blockbuster and informed the public.

 

[Hugh D'Man]

especially considering that the Bulls have pretty much no use for Marion seeing as they already have Deng as their SF.

What team DOES have use for Shawn ?
I think the Bulls figure they have a version of Marion in Noah...alot cheaper and can play C too. Besides, it may be easy to get Marion next yr for just a big sack of cash.

 

[azirish]

What team DOES have use for Shawn ?
I think the Bulls figure they have a version of Marion in Noah...alot cheaper and can play C too. Besides, it may be easy to get Marion next yr for just a big sack of cash.

This has been the discussion ever since he signed that contract.

The reason including the Celtics into the KG discussion was that they had the expiring Ratliff contract. On its own, the deal was not much:

#5 pick
Ratliff
West

In short, the Suns would be trading an all star forward for a draft pick and a couple of expiring contracts. You can see why that deal might appeal to a Celtics team that is treading water.

From the Suns perspective, that only works if the pick and expiring contracts could be combined with KT's expiring contract and the Suns picks to get KG. Otherwise, the Celtics deal alone is too big a drop in productivity for a championship contender.

Most straight up deals break down because Marion is overpaid from a market standpoint but a key factor in the Suns small ball style. It's not an easy problem to solve and still win a championship.

 

[dodie53]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2761~2018~687~510&teams=21~21~21~2

=)

 

[cly2tw]

What team DOES have use for Shawn ?
I think the Bulls figure they have a version of Marion in Noah...alot cheaper and can play C too. Besides, it may be easy to get Marion next yr for just a big sack of cash.

That's exactly the question I ask too. Which team? It depends both on how they play and how they could swap some bad contract too.

Chicao: no way.

GS: maybe. Harrington/Javis.../pick for Marion/Banks would save us a lot of money; alternatively
Harrington/Javiskucius/Pietrus for Marion/Banks

Bucks: maybe for Eric's proposal

Utah: maybe AK/Giricek/pick for Marion/Banks. I think Banks might be useful for Sloan's system.

Kings: maybe

Memphis: maybe Marion/Banks for Miller/Swift/Stoudamire/pick

Clippers: for Maggette/Cassell/AaronWilliams


Besides these, I don't think there are anything else remotely realistic.

 

[elindholm]

Memphis: maybe Marion/Banks for Miller/Swift/Stoudamire/pick

This is the one I'm holding out hope for, but I think it would have to be Phoenix that includes the pick, not Memphis.

 

[azirish]

Memphis: maybe Marion/Banks for Miller/Swift/Stoudamire/pick

This is the one I'm holding out hope for, but I think it would have to be Phoenix that includes the pick, not Memphis.

Is this realistic? I'm not being argumentative. I just don't see how this works from the Memphis point of view even if Marion signs off on it.

Miller is the Griz priomary three point threat. Their only other three point threat was Atkins and he's not expected to return. Also, at 4.3 assists per game was as much their PG as anybody.

Marion is an outstanding player, but what he offers is rather similar to that of Warrick and Gay. He's a lot better than either, but his inability to make his own shot would be a much bigger problem on a team without Nash.

I'm also skeptical of whether they'd want Banks (hardly a new situation). When it comes to developing young PG's they already have Lowry and have drafted Conley. Damon Stoudamire left a lot to be desired, but he was still their best PG when healthy.


From the Suns standpoing this deal is something of a wash, depending on whether you think Damon can play. His history of injuries makes me wonder. He has not been a top assist man for many years (4.7 and 4.8 while with Memphis) and has never been a good shooter with a lifeime 40.8% and 35.8% (worse this year). Other than having a shorter contract, I'm not sure I see the point if he won't play.

How many coaches have given up on Swift? He has a reputation for a very low basketball IQ.

Bottom line is that it is mostly Marion for Miller. I'm not convinced that works for either team, but I'm especially doubtful that it works for the Griz. What am I missing?

 

[elindholm]

Memphis: maybe Marion/Banks for Miller/Swift/Stoudamire/pick

Is this realistic?

I don't know. Marion is a more dynamic and more complete player than Miller, and Gasol is getting impatient. Since Iavaroni knows Marion's game, there could be some value in getting him off to a good start. Warrick is a PF and Gay, although promising, doesn't seem ready to be a major weapon yet.

Swift is a bust and I'd say he has approximately zero value to Memphis. His value to Phoenix isn't much higher, but if there's any place he can succeed, Phoenix would be it. I wouldn't have high expectations for him.

Stoudamire is a better backup PG, at least offensively speaking, than the Suns are likely to get in any other scenario. Since Marion is a big upgrade over Miller and/or Gay, it would be reasonable to ask Memphis to take Banks on.