Trading Marion

[F-Dog]

We all know Shawn Marion is on the block. After "legit" trade rumors with Minnesota, Milwaukee and Detroit, the Suns spent their #29 pick on a small, athletic SF who should be able to play down and guard PGs, and they also used their second-round pick on a PG-defending specialist--moves consistent with the notion that the Suns are looking to replace Marion with a bigger, less athletic forward.

It seems clear to me that what's driving this is Marion's threat to opt out of his contract. The Suns aren't in shape financially to award Marion with another big contract, so there's a good chance they'll lose him for nothing, which might mark the end of the Steve Nash era in Phoenix. Obviously, the Suns would prefer to trade Marion and extend their window for another season or two...

...which is why it makes sense that they offered Marion for Odom. Though injury-prone, Odom is locked in for two years, while Marion's expiring contract would benefit the Lakers if they were capable of embracing harsh reality and finding a taker for Kobe.


Here are a few more moves that might provoke a "Why are they doing this?"

--Marion to Cleveland for Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall and Shannon Brown

--Marion to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace and Jason Maxiell

--Marion to Golden State for Al Harrington and Sarunas Jasikevicius

--Marion to LA Clippers for Corey Maggette and Tim Thomas


If the Suns had a "good" Marion trade available to them, they would have done it already. If the Suns wind up moving Marion now, it will look like one of the above trades.

 

[Cheesebeef]

--Marion to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace and Jason Maxiell

if we were able to sign Hill, I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

Nash
Bell
Hill
Sheed
Amare

Leo
Boris
KT
Maxiell
Tucker

the starting lineup is a defensive dynamo, has three three point shooter and 4 guys that can literally create their own shot or post. It also gives us an honest to god, low-post defensive presence, one who regularly gives Duncan fits. And it makes our bench that much stronger, with size and still two guys who can create their own shot and set up others.

only thing is that team is ANCIENT. It's literally a one and done team. Although, does Sheed come off the books next year?

 

[HooverDam]

We all know Shawn Marion is on the block.

We do? At this point, I think any realistic moving of Marion is out the window, the Suns/D'Antoni want to keep the ship together and sail on for another season. They feel they got screwed last year and otherwise would have the title already.

 

[F-Dog]

if we were able to sign Hill, I'd do this trade in a heartbeat.

I was thinking I might be optimistic about the Suns getting Maxiell, and you've confirmed it.

I agree that Marion-for-Sheed makes a lot of sense for the Suns, though.

 

[The Commish]

If we trade Marion the only thing I'm concerned with replacing is rebounding. If we can get someone who can grab some boards then I don't think losing Marion will be as tough as everyone thinks. Remember, small forward is the most replaceable position on the floor.

 

[nashman]

The above clippers trade is not too bad if you had to move marion. Maggette is a pretty good athlete and can score and we've seen TT be serviceable defender and 3 point shooter. Thats an interesting one for me, what would the cap implications of that trade be?

 

[F-Dog]

We do? At this point, I think any realistic moving of Marion is out the window, the Suns/D'Antoni want to keep the ship together and sail on for another season. They feel they got screwed last year and otherwise would have the title already.

So the part where the Suns have made documented Marion offers to three teams in the last week (and have already drafted his replacement) doesn't mean anything to you?

 

[Absolute Zero]

I love Marion, but the problem is that his salary is excessive and not marketable. He is not the "go to guy". He is a defensive stud and all around awesome role player who can fill up a stat line. I hope he stays on our team. But he is not "the man" and other teams aren't willing to pay him that kind of salary to bring about a trade. While there are other overpaid lesser players out there, that doesn't make trading for him appealing enough to other teams.

 

[F-Dog]

The above clippers trade is not too bad if you had to move marion. Maggette is a pretty good athlete and can score and we've seen TT be serviceable defender and 3 point shooter. Thats an interesting one for me, what would the cap implications of that trade be?

Suns save money this year, Maggette has a player option next summer. Beyond that, the advantage is having TT on the books and being able to use their MLE for other needs.

 

[elindholm]

--Marion to Cleveland for Drew Gooden, Donyell Marshall and Shannon Brown

I don't think the Suns can afford to take that big a step down defensively.

--Marion to Detroit for Rasheed Wallace and Jason Maxiell

Given that the Suns seem unwilling to address their big man needs through free agency, I'm warming to the possibility of a Wallace trade. I doubt Detroit wants Marion for him, though.

--Marion to Golden State for Al Harrington and Sarunas Jasikevicius

Unspeakably horrible. The fans should burn the USAC to the ground if this trade happens.

--Marion to LA Clippers for Corey Maggette and Tim Thomas

We know D'Antoni hates Thomas, so this trade is pointless unless accompanied by a coaching change. I'd consider Maggette and Cassell, though.

If the Suns wind up moving Marion now, it will look like one of the above trades.

Any chance the Sonics want him? If Lewis doesn't get the max contract he's looking for, he might settle for near-max, and then the Suns could also get Ridnour.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Suns save money this year, Maggette has a player option next summer. Beyond that, the advantage is having TT on the books and being able to use their MLE for other needs.

disadvantage is that team is a defensive sieve though.

 

[F-Dog]

Any chance the Sonics want him? If Lewis doesn't get the max contract he's looking for, he might settle for near-max, and then the Suns could also get Ridnour.

I'd like to see it, but I don't think the Sonics would be interested in one year of Marion--why not let Lewis walk for nothing and play the kids?--and I'm sure the Suns won't want to sign Lewis for what he wants, either.

The Suns don't have the salaries to bring back Ridnour IMO.

 

[F-Dog]

I don't think the Suns can afford to take that big a step down defensively.

If the Suns trade Marion, his replacement will line up exclusively at PF. SF minutes will be taken by Bell, Tucker and whoever they get in FA.

Even so, it's a big dip defensively, especially against Dallas. The Suns would have to improve their shooting markedly to make up the difference.

 

[elindholm]

I'm sure the Suns won't want to sign Lewis for what he wants, either.

The Suns don't have the salaries to bring back Ridnour IMO.

Well, that's what I meant. If reality hits Lewis and he has to settle for a deal that starts at $10 million or so, he and Ridnour add up to Marion (financially).

 

[F-Dog]

Well, that's what I meant. If reality hits Lewis and he has to settle for a deal that starts at $10 million or so, he and Ridnour add up to Marion (financially).

That would work fine the first year, but beyond that, I don't think the Suns are looking to make that kind of salary commitment--even for two players.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I don't think the Suns can afford to take that big a step down defensively.



Given that the Suns seem unwilling to address their big man needs through free agency, I'm warming to the possibility of a Wallace trade. I doubt Detroit wants Marion for him, though.



Unspeakably horrible. The fans should burn the USAC to the ground if this trade happens.



We know D'Antoni hates Thomas, so this trade is pointless unless accompanied by a coaching change. I'd consider Maggette and Cassell, though.



Any chance the Sonics want him? If Lewis doesn't get the max contract he's looking for, he might settle for near-max, and then the Suns could also get Ridnour.

LOOOOOOVE this trade idea. I honestly think Lewis excels over here at about 13 - 14 million and Luke ridnour is the IDEAL back up PG. The benefit for the Sonics is they get a vet player who will play 2 years and then can opt out and won't try to become the offensive centerpiece to Durant. My only question with this is is that too many forwards for them now? But if they plan on keeping Lewis anyway this is a GREAT trade for them too as the financial flexibility they will have once Durant hits his stride will allow them to get a legit PG or center to help the kid out after Marion opts out.

Win/Win all the way around. At this point I would throw in the ATL pick to make this work. I think Lewis is one of the top 5 players (in terms of fit) in the league who would excel in D'Antonis system.

I make that trade in a second.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

LOOOOOOVE this trade idea. I honestly think Lewis excels over here at about 13 - 14 million and Luke ridnour is the IDEAL back up PG. The benefit for the Sonics is they get a vet player who will play 2 years and then can opt out and won't try to become the offensive centerpiece to Durant. My only question with this is is that too many forwards for them now? But if they plan on keeping Lewis anyway this is a GREAT trade for them too as the financial flexibility they will have once Durant hits his stride will allow them to get a legit PG or center to help the kid out after Marion opts out.

Win/Win all the way around. At this point I would throw in the ATL pick to make this work. I think Lewis is one of the top 5 players (in terms of fit) in the league who would excel in D'Antonis system.

I make that trade in a second.

I'm pretty sure that we would have to throw in the ATL pick to make it work. I'd do it too.

 

[HooverDam]

So the part where the Suns have made documented Marion offers to three teams in the last week (and have already drafted his replacement) doesn't mean anything to you?

Who did they draft as his replacement? Tucker? If so, you've got to be kidding me.

 

[elindholm]

That would work fine the first year, but beyond that, I don't think the Suns are looking to make that kind of salary commitment--even for two players.

Well, Ridnour goes until only 2010 and his contract is flat, like Diaw's, so it wouldn't be a horrible burden. Not that I like him; actually I think he's a punk.

The Suns will have to pay someone to fill the hole in the starting frontcourt after Marion is gone. Diaw will never be a SF because he can't guard wings, and expecting Tucker to become a starter on an elite team is a pretty tall order. So they can worry about their SF of the future now or later, but the time will be upon them soon enough.

 

[azirish]

I'm all for using Marion in an upgrade like getting KG. I'm opposed to trading Marion for less talented guys with longer contracts. I'm bored with discussion of deals that have an amazingly low chance of happening such as wtih Sheed.

As far as I can tell, there are several competing viewpoints on Marion:

1. Marion is a great player who should have a lot of value to other teams.

2. Marion is a terrible player and the Suns should unload him because they'd better off without him.

3. Marion is a great fit for the Suns but would not be as valuable for other teams, so is hard to trade without hurting the team.

4. Marion is overpaid and the Suns will inevitably lose out on any deal that does not include another overpaid player.

5. Marion is great but he's a lockerroom cancer so the Suns need to dump him to improve team chemistry even if they have to take a loos on the deal.

6. Marion is great and should only get traded for another superstar.

7. Marion permits D'Antoni to play small ball so he should be traded so Mike will go to a traditional lineup.

I'm undoubtedly missing some. In any case, repeating the same things over and over does not seem to be convincing anybody. My guess is that the size of his contract and his mostly complementary style will continue to hurt his popularity. At the same time, I do not think the Suns are nearly as willing to move Marion as their fans are.

 

[elindholm]

In any case, repeating the same things over and over does not seem to be convincing anybody.

I think you'd better post that about twenty more times, just to be on the safe side.

 

[HooverDam]

I'm all for using Marion in an upgrade like getting KG. I'm opposed to trading Marion for less talented guys with longer contracts. I'm bored with discussion of deals that have an amazingly low chance of happening such as wtih Sheed.

Thank you for bringing some sense and logic to this thread.

 

[elindholm]

Thank you for bringing some sense and logic to this thread.

I'm not sure how ignoring evidence that Marion is being shopped qualifies as "sense and logic."

 

[asudevil83]

what about Marion for AK.....AK makes a couple mil less than Marion, and would be great in our system.

 

[HooverDam]

I'm not sure how ignoring evidence that Marion is being shopped qualifies as "sense and logic."

Every trade posted in this thread has been stupid, thats why. Trading Marion for Garnett helps the Suns, most of these other trades are so stupidly unbalanced, that either the Suns or the other team wouldn't ever think of doing them.

I honestly think Marion, Amare and Nash will all be on this team next year. D'Antoni likes this lineup, knows how to coach it and believes its close. Any trade that involves moving Marion that the Suns could REALISTICALLY get significantly downgrades the team.

But you just like to flame AzIrish it seems, so I'll get out of the way of that