Do Suns blow it up?

Raindog

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I'm just curious if anyone who identifies as a fan would think anything but "bleep that" if they bring back (mostly) the same roster PLUS Vogel and Jones? I don't know how the owner could sell that with a straight face, but it seems to be on the table... at this point anyway.

One thing that's kind of been overlooked is that they made it through this season mostly in pretty good health. Beal missed his normal chunk, but Booker, Durant, Nurkic and most everyone else who counted had a healthy year. So they certainly can't use that as an alibi for the failure. And furthermore, the likelihood that repeats next year is just about nil.

With Jones calling the shots, don't expect logical fixes to the roster issues. And Vogel isn't going to learn to coach anytime soon. So I can't see any way that the Suns get anywhere close to even what they accomplished this year while essentially standing pat.

Does any of the fanbase want to sign on for that?
 

Covert Rain

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I'm just curious if anyone who identifies as a fan would think anything but "bleep that" if they bring back (mostly) the same roster PLUS Vogel and Jones? I don't know how the owner could sell that with a straight face, but it seems to be on the table... at this point anyway.

One thing that's kind of been overlooked is that they made it through this season mostly in pretty good health. Beal missed his normal chunk, but Booker, Durant, Nurkic and most everyone else who counted had a healthy year. So they certainly can't use that as an alibi for the failure. And furthermore, the likelihood that repeats next year is just about nil.

With Jones calling the shots, don't expect logical fixes to the roster issues. And Vogel isn't going to learn to coach anytime soon. So I can't see any way that the Suns get anywhere close to even what they accomplished this year while essentially standing pat.

Does any of the fanbase want to sign on for that?
If they run this back with just tweaks to the bench? I am going to be massively disappointed. This team was brutal to watch. Every time it seemed like they were about to put it together the bottom fell out. Another season of that? YIKES. I hope some changes are coming.
 

Fitz4Ever

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They have to do whatever it takes to bring in a veteran point guard who doesnt suck. The only way this roster possibly works is getting an above average PG, and having Beal come off the bench as a 2nd unit player.

I would fire Vogel...if the players have really tuned him out there is no coming back from that. Since we are all in right now, they might as well just ask the freakin players who they want as a coach. We are not trying to coach up young guys, we are trying to win with old players with huge egos. If they wont buy in to a coach and play with some heart...then there is nothing we can do to improve.
 

Chaplin

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They have to do whatever it takes to bring in a veteran point guard who doesnt suck. The only way this roster possibly works is getting an above average PG, and having Beal come off the bench as a 2nd unit player.

I would fire Vogel...if the players have really tuned him out there is no coming back from that. Since we are all in right now, they might as well just ask the freakin players who they want as a coach. We are not trying to coach up young guys, we are trying to win with old players with huge egos. If they wont buy in to a coach and play with some heart...then there is nothing we can do to improve.
Beal is not going to be benched, geez.

Our best bet would be to get a starter-quality PG and move Grayson to the bench. We have a starter at PG and we don't have to worry about a backup -- sign and/or draft a big man and we'd be a lot more rounded out.

And again, Beal isn't going to come off the bench. Period, end of story.
 

GatorAZ

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Beal is not going to be benched, geez.

Our best bet would be to get a starter-quality PG and move Grayson to the bench. We have a starter at PG and we don't have to worry about a backup -- sign and/or draft a big man and we'd be a lot more rounded out.

And again, Beal isn't going to come off the bench. Period, end of story.

Beal is that perfect player to bring off the bench because he’s technically a combo guard that can do a little bit of everything and get hot offensively when Book sits. The problem is money and ego which is probably a more significant factor than what’s best for the team.
 

Covert Rain

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Beal is not going to be benched, geez.

Our best bet would be to get a starter-quality PG and move Grayson to the bench. We have a starter at PG and we don't have to worry about a backup -- sign and/or draft a big man and we'd be a lot more rounded out.

And again, Beal isn't going to come off the bench. Period, end of story.
I would rather see Beal off the bench. We need Grayson opening up the offense with his 3 point shooting. Beal is OK in that regard but I don't think people fear his 3 point shot. Plus Grayson is one of the best in the league. It would be a tough decision but if people start staying home in the lane because we don't have a 3 point threat, there goes any mid-range space. It's a tough situation with these 3.
 

Carolinacacti

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Free agent treads will start soon. Fined a point guard and fire Vogel. Who starts is moot you have to have two of the big three on the court all the time. Find a coach that can use the bench.
 

Mainstreet

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This is what Gambo is saying about it.

Adding a point guard, power forward and a center were obvious moves. The question is why didn't some of these moves happen and who is responsible.

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Fitz4Ever

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Beal is not going to be benched, geez.

Our best bet would be to get a starter-quality PG and move Grayson to the bench. We have a starter at PG and we don't have to worry about a backup -- sign and/or draft a big man and we'd be a lot more rounded out.

And again, Beal isn't going to come off the bench. Period, end of story.
Totally disagree. We saw what having 3 Iso scorers on the court brings us...and Beal is the odd man out with the unit. If we bring in a PG, then we need to have a defensive wing/shooter in the starting lineup along with our playmaking PG and a physical rebounding center.

Beal can be the 6th man and play as a PG/scoring option with the 2nd unit. He would primary provider of backup minutes to PG, Booker, and Grayson.

Starting Lineup - Veteran PG, Booker, Allen, KD, Nurk
Bench - Beal, Gordon, O'neal, Bol, and Veteran backup C

Its not like Beal isnt still getting 30 min a game...but they can't have 3 ball stopping ISO scorers who all think they are the main option on the court all the time.
 

Chaplin

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Totally disagree. We saw what having 3 Iso scorers on the court brings us...and Beal is the odd man out with the unit. If we bring in a PG, then we need to have a defensive wing/shooter in the starting lineup along with our playmaking PG and a physical rebounding center.

Beal can be the 6th man and play as a PG/scoring option with the 2nd unit. He would primary provider of backup minutes to PG, Booker, and Grayson.

Starting Lineup - Veteran PG, Booker, Allen, KD, Nurk
Bench - Beal, Gordon, O'neal, Bol, and Veteran backup C

Its not like Beal isnt still getting 30 min a game...but they can't have 3 ball stopping ISO scorers who all think they are the main option on the court all the time.
He is simply not going to be benched. I get that's what you WANT, but it's not what is going to happen.
 

Covert Rain

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He is simply not going to be benched. I get that's what you WANT, but it's not what is going to happen.
By benched I don't think you mean not playing. I think you mean moved to the bench (1st man off). I will call it now. You move Grayson to the bench and our 3 point shooting will drop off a cliff and the lanes will be clogged.
 

Chaplin

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By benched I don't think you mean not playing. I think you mean moved to the bench (1st man off). I will call it now. You move Grayson to the bench and our 3 point shooting will drop off a cliff and the lanes will be clogged.
That might be right, and it might even be a good reason to have Brad come off the bench.

I'm just saying it won't happen. No matter what anyone on a message board thinks.
 

Cheesebeef

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He is simply not going to be benched. I get that's what you WANT, but it's not what is going to happen.
I’m not sure why you’re dismissing it as 100% certainty. Ray Allen came off the bench for the Heat. Manu played his entire career off the bench. Westbrook has started coming off the bench and been really successful. It’s not that unheard of and this team needs to start considering it, because if they bring in a PG, they’re pretty much stuck with the same bad defensive team they had last year, if not worse with Beal or Booker having to guard athletic 3s.

As noted by others, he’s actually the perfect guy to run the second unit because of his ability to score and somewhat distribute and after the mid season he just put up, followed by a pretty pathetic playoffs, this team doesn’t owe him a spot in the starting lineup if it’s to the team’s detriment.

It’s at least something the Suns should consider. Will they? Probably not because they’re not very cerebral thinkers.
 

Covert Rain

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That might be right, and it might even be a good reason to have Brad come off the bench.

I'm just saying it won't happen. No matter what anyone on a message board thinks.
You might be right if the goal it to keep him happy. However, if the Suns want him to want to move on and give up his no trade clause? I can't think of a better way to facilitate that.
 

Mainstreet

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The current Suns are unlikeable. I don't relate to the players, coach and GM.

I hope the Suns are not like a new toy for ownership.

I miss this type of camaraderie among players. See below.

The Suns need to get it back.

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Covert Rain

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The current Suns are unlikeable. I don't relate to the players, coach and GM.

I hope the Suns are not like a new toy for ownership.

I miss this type of camaraderie among players. See below.

The Suns need to get it back.

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I believe much of that comes with winning. Much of that camaraderie evaporated at the end and players were not happy.
 

Cheesebeef

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The current Suns are unlikeable. I don't relate to the players, coach and GM.

I hope the Suns are not like a new toy for ownership.

I miss this type of camaraderie among players. See below.

The Suns need to get it back.

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Did you enjoy back to back blown 2-0 series leads in successive seasons, punctuated by literally the most humiliating Game 7 home loss in NBA history, followed by a continued back slide to 25-26 the next season with all those guys?

What followed hasn’t been better, but the continued hero worship of the fun/dancing Suns’ epic failures continues to mystify me. It’s like voters right now with certain political figures, completely blocking out the absolute ish-show this country was in when they were forced to abdicate power.
 

Mainstreet

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I believe much of that comes with winning. Much of that camaraderie evaporated at the end and players were not happy.

I don't believe the new owner studied what was good with the Suns and blew it up for a quick fix.

What's the saying, "Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater"

The Suns did just that with the trade for Durant.
 

Mainstreet

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Yeah, like the current Suns team went down 0-4 in the 1st round of the playoffs.
 

Cheesebeef

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Well if he’s not willing to do what’s best for the team then he was the wrong guy to acquire. Dude has never won anything so you’d like to think he’d sacrifice for the greater good.
Bingo.

This team owes him nothing and to be honest, after his mid at best season and awful post-season, reality is he owes US. If he really cared about winning, he’d be willing to entertain the idea like other great sixth men on title teams before him.

All assuming we actually got a serviceable PG, of course.
 

Dr dumas

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Beal has said several times during the season that we will do what is best for the team. If that included being more of a facilitator some nights, versus other nights having to be more of a scorer.

I don’t think he would have any issue as the 6th man.
 

taz02

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Did you enjoy back to back blown 2-0 series leads in successive seasons, punctuated by literally the most humiliating Game 7 home loss in NBA history, followed by a continued back slide to 25-26 the next season with all those guys?

What followed hasn’t been better, but the continued hero worship of the fun/dancing Suns’ epic failures continues to mystify me. It’s like voters right now with certain political figures, completely blocking out the absolute ish-show this country was in when they were forced to abdicate power.
Maybe not everyone likes the same things you like.
 

Fitz4Ever

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He is simply not going to be benched. I get that's what you WANT, but it's not what is going to happen.
Then maybe he should waive his no-trade clause and try to find another team? being a 6th man and still playing 30 min a game is not being benched. In fact it will probably extend his career and make him more effective .
 

Chaplin

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You might be right if the goal it to keep him happy. However, if the Suns want him to want to move on and give up his no trade clause? I can't think of a better way to facilitate that.
And why would they want that? Sure, he stunk it up in the last game, but there is nothing that indicates that the Suns want to move on from ANY of the big 3.
 

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