The Price for Orton

[Clif]

I just read an article that reminded me exactly why Orton was ran out of town in Chicago and IMO his fatal flaw. The guy is prone for the killer turnover. His stats look good until you see what he does in the biggest games. He is a turnover machine!

 

[MrYeahBut]

My wife is a Bronco fan so I watched a fair amount of at least part of their games. I was also at the game at UofP. I can't site specific games but I know he threw a couple of horrific picks with the game on the line. That being said, I do believe he is better than anyone on our roster.

Part of the problems were not his fault because the team has gigantic holes and they aren't very good anyway...sound familiar?? So he would be basically in the same position with the Cards.




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[juza76]

I just read an article that reminded me exactly why Orton was ran out of town in Chicago and IMO his fatal flaw. The guy is prone for the killer turnover. His stats look good until you see what he does in the biggest games. He is a turnover machine!

is a loser so...but his stats in the last 2 years improved a lot even without a stellar wr corp..even in chicago he didnt have any weapons

 

[Pariah]

why a team that desperately needs production from the qb would be willing to give him up over a highly questionable and untested rookie.

In addition to the reasons cited above, the Broncos don't desperately need good QB play (they've actually gotten it from both Orton and Tebow), they DESPERATELY need defense. It's the worst in the league.

Look, I'm not a huge Orton fan or anything, I just think he's better than people give him credit for. He's not a great QB. He's a solid QB, and solid QBs are hard to come by.

 

[Go Devils]

Sign McNabb, draft Newton. Implement some short yardage and goal line plays for Newton and groom him. After the season that the Cards just had they have to go for a glamour pick to keep the masses interested. They are risking black-outs again unless they do something drastic.

 

[Darkside]

I'm starting to warm to the idea of Orton. We have to win now, and he'll give us a better chance than any rooks (including Skelton) and is on the upswing of his career (unlike McNabb and Bulger). If they can appraise Skelton accurately and decide if he's going to be our future (in which case we should get Orton and draft defense) or be a career backup (in which case, we should still draft a QB), then it'll work. Plugging in Orton probably wins this division for us again, and we can groom Skelton or a draft pick for the future at the same time.

 

[JeffGollin]

Can we get real here?

Bringing in a veteran is no panacae.

Most of the guys we can bring in are guys we can't win with.

We got lucky with Warner. And remember, he was brought in as "veteran Leinart insurance." It just turned out that he was able to resurrect some of the insane skills he utilized to get the Rams to the Super Bowl. If we hadn't brought him in during the middle of a game to relieve Leinart and run the no-huddle offense, we'd never have known what he actually had left in the proverbial tank.

How often is that likely to happen? Most veteran free agents will lack enough aspects of the skill-set needed to consistently move an NFL offense down the field and punch it into the end zone frequently enough.

So the first thing you look for are "those veterans who can still do it" (which will eliminate roughly 90% of the guys out there) and then hope the guy you brought in still has enough in his bag of tricks to do it for you. Many times, you guess wrong (We guessed wrong with Anderson). We did good with Kurt W. You roll your dice and take your chances.

I'm both wondering and guessing - What will Skelton and/or Bartel be like with an entire off-season and training camp worth of work under their belts - could they improve by 10%? 15%? 25%? Would it be enough to win with? (My gut says "possibly"). Certainly, the standard for any veteran we'd bring in would have to be that they'd open the season performing better than either Skelton or Bartel. Otherwise, why make the move?

Final note - The one QB out there who fascinates me is McNabb because - as a future season-saver he can go either way. By this I mean: (1) we know he's had an excellent set of skills in the past, (2) was reportedly badly out of shape (& perhaps done) in his final year in Philly and this past year in Washington raising (c) the question of whether or not he could somehow get his act together and get in shape for one last Warner-like hurrah.

(Maybe we could kidnap him at his home in AZ and cart him off to John Lott's house for the duration).

 

[JCSunsfan]

I just read an article that reminded me exactly why Orton was ran out of town in Chicago and IMO his fatal flaw. The guy is prone for the killer turnover. His stats look good until you see what he does in the biggest games. He is a turnover machine!

That has been my impression. Honestly, from what I have seen, I would rather have Skelton. I have been quite impressed with his ability to avoid turnovers. If he can avoid turnovers and gradually increase his completion percentage, you have a very good quarterback.

You still take the best qb you can get in the draft. Skelton is by no means a lock to succeed.

 

[Mainstreet]

Tebow was a first round draft pick for the Broncos. So I'd like to see the Cardinals draft a QB with seemingly better candidates available. I just do not want the Cardinals to give up an early draft pick for mediocrity. If Tebow is better than Orton, well that scares me.

 

[Stout]

The more I think about it, the more Orton sounds like a good idea. If we can't get them to accept less, I say we ship them that 2nd. We cannot underestimate how much even average QB play will improve our team.

Trade for Orton (or Hill--I'd prefer Hill), put him with Skelton, and roll with that next year.

 

[desertdawg]

Denver gave up a ton to get Tebow and has a fanbase pining for him to start. That is no knock on Orton at all.

Orton is a GOOD QB. Probably the best veteran available. Yet you say you would rather get a worse veteran and a rookie?

I am with you on this one big guy, Orton is probably the best available, especially when you factor in the price. I have watched a lot of Orton over the years, he plays a lot better when he is well protected.
I would most def take him over McNaab, Bulger, most of the crustiez that will be around.
Kolb might be too expensive, but I would rather have him.
I'd still go Newton in the draft if we don't get Orton or Kolb.

 

[82CardsGrad]

He's not a difference maker in the way Warner was, but he would have been a difference maker for the Cards this year. He would have made a few plays in the passing game, avoided a few of the mistakes that were made and opened up the playbook to include the run game, keeping the offense on the field (and the defense off of it) ... and as a result, probably would have won the division for us.

JMHO

Perfectly stated...

 

[Snakester]

Sad part is ANYBODY looks decent compared to what we had this year.

I don't like the thought of putting next season on Skelton's shoulders. I don't like the thought of taking a QB with our first pick. I certainly don't like the thought of Bulger.

Orton just might be the best stop gap QB while Skwlton develops.

Orton is 29-19 WITH THE BRONCO'S!
This year in 13 games he threw for over 3600 yards with a 7.3 yards avg even though he was sacked 34 times. He threw 20 td's to 9 picks.
Over the last 2 years he has thrown for over 7000 yards with 41 td's and 21 picks and has a QB rating of around 87.0.

Those kind of numbers would have probably been good enough to win this division. He's a smart efficient QB . He's not small (6'4" and 225). He is not Warner. He is not flashy. He is more of a lunch pail kind of guy.

We could do worse.

Bingo! I like the idea of adding Orton for a second rounder. He is good enough to win our division now. There is nothing wrong with getting a guy to win now and also draft a QBOTF. Whats wrong with drafting Gabbert or Newton and having Orton and Skelton in the mix. I would take having those three on the roster all day long.

 

[ajcardfan]

Bingo! I like the idea of adding Orton for a second rounder. He is good enough to win our division now. There is nothing wrong with getting a guy to win now and also draft a QBOTF. Whats wrong with drafting Gabbert or Newton and having Orton and Skelton in the mix. I would take having those three on the roster all day long.

Because you then spend your top two picks on QBs, and the defense and oline needs major upgrades of young talent too. I guess we could try to address those in free agency, but you know how we tend to handle free agency. There's no way we would sign the top OT and top pass rusher to hit free agency.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Nothing more than a 5th rounder until he shave and cuts his hair. I can't look at him for 16 games, even with a helmet on .

 

[SuperSpck]

I think the system McDaniels and Orton used in DEN is similar to the one Whis wanted to use this year.
IF Whis is going to feature a shotgun-heavy offense Orton could put up similar numbers, BUT his line in Denver was better.
That may suck to hear, but it's accurate. Can Orton perform to high standards while taking more damage?

 

[lobo]

Sad part is ANYBODY looks decent compared to what we had this year.



We could do worse.

We certainly have proven that!! Lot less questions about what a team would get with him than with McNabb at this point.

 

[lobo]

Can we get real here?

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(Maybe we could kidnap him at his home in AZ and cart him off to John Lott's house for the duration).

Rarely do I not see eye to eye with your comments Jeff, and how you support them but this time regarding McNabb I do not. I believe the "downside" is far greater with him than with Orton...the upside?? Well based on Orton's winning percentage over the years, I don't believe it is too far removed from that of McNabb. In my mind with McNabb I would be saying well this is what I thought might happen...I don't think I would have that feeling with Orton.

IF the the team takes the McNabb route and I were king of the forest I would try and get Chilly in here asap. McN had some good years with Chilly on the bridge in Philly as OC. For some getting McNabb would be reasons for dancing sugarplums in their heads. Other point...I believe Orton would free up added money to sign some added F/A's.

 

[lobo]

I am with you on this one big guy, Orton is probably the best available, especially when you factor in the price. I have watched a lot of Orton over the years, he plays a lot better when he is well protected.
I would most def take him over McNaab, Bulger, most of the crustiez that will be around.
Kolb might be too expensive, but I would rather have him.
I'd still go Newton in the draft if we don't get Orton or Kolb.

I certainly agree about Orton and maybe if I were king of the forest I sign Orton (as much as I like Kolb), don't spend the first round + draft choices on Kolb AND take a shot and draft Newton plus bring in the best OC/QB coach around to bring him along....I happen to be a Chilly fan as he is all business, knows how to bring a QB along and is a real good game planner.

 

[Matt L]

Orton vs McNabb comparison on the year:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/headtohead...Select+a+Player...&playerFour=Select+a+Player...

Is he really that much better than McNabb?

 

[Goldfield]

I would go with Orton. I think our 3rd would get him as high as it is.

Orton & Skelton would be pretty good IMO. Then we need to upgrade the OL and D as much as we can.

 

[Shane]

I would go with Orton. I think our 3rd would get him as high as it is.

Orton & Skelton would be pretty good IMO. Then we need to upgrade the OL and LBers as much as we can.

FTFY!

 

[Goldfield]

LBer and SS!

 

[Goldfield]

Orton makes too much sense to me. Wont cost us a fortune and he is a seasoned QUALITY QB still in his prime. No brainer to me.

 

[lobo]

Orton makes too much sense to me. Wont cost us a fortune and he is a seasoned QUALITY QB still in his prime. No brainer to me.

You bet!! Orton's w/l record over the years shows me he can win. He has been a victim of some bad luck in the trade he was involved in and the "coming" of Rex Grossman to the Bears. I hope the team hurries to get him as some smart front office surely will see the same things I do and make the move as soon as they can. I think Denver is "nuts" if they think Tebow is ready to take the bridge...they came out and said Orton can be had now....maybe they think Quinn can give them the same results as Orton while they groom Tebow...as I said in a number of posts get Chilly in to run the offense give up a 2 (maybe a 3 and 5 instead!!) and lets start the year off right.