The ONLY reason I want Sean Payton

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Do I think he's a good coach? Sure. Overhyped, but a solid coach. But I don't care about that.

The reason I want Payton is it will prevent the "kick the can down the road" firings and hirings because of Kyler if they go with someone else as HC.

If anyone other than Payton fails with Kyler, chances are a new OC, or HC, etc.... will be brought in to adjust to Kyler and "unlock his potential".

I think Payton can get Kyler to live up to his potential.

However, if Payton goes up to MB after year 1 or year 2 and says "this kid doesn't want to put the work in" or "he just doesn't have it", then MB will be more likely to cut K1 loose and start from scratch.

The biggest issue this team has is not knowing if Kyler is the guy. I think MB would only act on Payton's assessment with that much $ involved. Otherwise, he'll keep kicking the can down the road trying to find someone that can reach K1.
 

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Do I think he's a good coach? Sure. Overhyped, but a solid coach. But I don't care about that.

The reason I want Payton is it will prevent the "kick the can down the road" firings and hirings because of Kyler if they go with someone else as HC.

If anyone other than Payton fails with Kyler, chances are a new OC, or HC, etc.... will be brought in to adjust to Kyler and "unlock his potential".

I think Payton can get Kyler to live up to his potential.

However, if Payton goes up to MB after year 1 or year 2 and says "this kid doesn't want to put the work in" or "he just doesn't have it", then MB will be more likely to cut K1 loose and start from scratch.

The biggest issue this team has is not knowing if Kyler is the guy. I think MB would only act on Payton's assessment with that much $ involved. Otherwise, he'll keep kicking the can down the road trying to find someone that can reach K1.
agree.
 
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I just don’t think he is worth a 1st round pick
Meh, if we end up trading down for a mid-1st and a 2nd or 3rd, I would have no problem giving up a mid 1st and 2nd to force MB’s hand on the K1 decision. This team goes as K1 goes.
 

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I just don’t think he is worth a 1st round pick

Same. I'd rather have an up and comer and keep the pick than Payton and lose a high pick.

The best I'd be willing to do is a 2024 pick swap. Our 1st for Saints 2nd.
 

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Meh, if we end up trading down for a mid-1st and a 2nd or 3rd, I would have no problem giving up a mid 1st and 2nd to force MB’s hand on the K1 decision. This team goes as K1 goes.

Problem with that is Payton would be signed and compensation agreed to way before any draft day trades.
 
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Same. I'd rather have an up and comer and keep the pick than Payton and lose a high pick.

The best I'd be willing to do is a 2024 pick swap. Our 1st for Saints 2nd.
Really surprised to see this from you. In what scenario do you see MB saying “it’s not the coach, it’s Kyler”? He will keep cycling through coaches trying to find someone who can reach Kyler.

Payton is the only coach where MB would say “If Sean can’t make him better, we need to start over”.

I’d gladly give up a 1st to know within the next 2 years if Kyler is the guy or not than waste 5-6 years trying to justify making him the 1st pick and also extending him.
 
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Problem with that is Payton would be signed and compensation agreed to way before any draft day trades.
I just meant that if you think of the 3rd pick being equal to a mid 1st plus a 2nd rounder in a trade, it makes it easier to think about pulling the trigger.
 

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Really surprised to see this from you. In what scenario do you see MB saying “it’s not the coach, it’s Kyler”? He will keep cycling through coaches trying to find someone who can reach Kyler.

Payton is the only coach where MB would say “If Sean can’t make him better, we need to start over”.

I’d gladly give up a 1st to know within the next 2 years if Kyler is the guy or not than waste 5-6 years trying to justify making him the 1st pick and also extending him.

I don't believe Sean Payton is the only guy that can do that. I think Flores can do that. I think Demeco Ryans can do that. I think Frank Reich can do that.

I'm not sure why people are so sure Payton is the only guy to fix Kyler. Has Payton even any experience of working with a difficult guy like that? Brees was the ultimate pro. The guys he brough in like Dalton and Winston work and study hard.

You get a good HC that has principles and standards and hold players to account and that should fix Kyler. After all, that's all Payton can do.
 

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My main reason is that I want a good team to watch each week and can a step away from the Kliff
 
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I don't believe Sean Payton is the only guy that can do that. I think Flores can do that. I think Demeco Ryans can do that. I think Frank Reich can do that.

I'm not sure why people are so sure Payton is the only guy to fix Kyler. Has Payton even any experience of working with a difficult guy like that? Brees was the ultimate pro. The guys he brough in like Dalton and Winston work and study hard.

You get a good HC that has principles and standards and hold players to account and that should fix Kyler. After all, that's all Payton can do.
That’s not what I am saying. If Kyler doesn’t improve under Demeco Ryan’s, who do you think is shown the door? If he fails under Flores, do you think MB will keep Flores over Kyler?

My point is if MB makes a huge investment in Payton with draft picks and $, that would be the only scenario I could see where MB keeps the coach over Kyler.
 

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I think people are overthinking what Payton can do with Murray. Until Murray decides he wants to dedicate the time and effort necessary to become a top tier QB no one is going to unlock anything.

If you trust you have hired the best HC for the direction you want to see the team go and you have onboard the correct GM to work with that coach, then why would you need Sean Payton to be the one to tell you Murray is never going to work out. Why wouldn't the HC you hired to lead the team be trusted enough if he tells you Murray just isn't the answer.
 

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I think people are overthinking what Payton can do with Murray. Until Murray decides he wants to dedicate the time and effort necessary to become a top tier QB no one is going to unlock anything.

Would love to catch K2 at a quiet table in a Bangkok drinking establishment, after he's had a few, and listen to his thoughts on Murray.
 

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That’s not what I am saying. If Kyler doesn’t improve under Demeco Ryan’s, who do you think is shown the door? If he fails under Flores, do you think MB will keep Flores over Kyler?

My point is if MB makes a huge investment in Payton with draft picks and $, that would be the only scenario I could see where MB keeps the coach over Kyler.

I don't agree. The FO clearly know there is a Kyler issue. If the issue doesn't improve with another HC I don't believe their response will be "Well lets try a 3rd".

I think the new HC gets 2 seasons min with Kyler. At that point they can get out of Kyler with a stinging but not deadly $33m dead cap hit.
 

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I think people are overthinking what Payton can do with Murray. Until Murray decides he wants to dedicate the time and effort necessary to become a top tier QB no one is going to unlock anything.

If you trust you have hired the best HC for the direction you want to see the team go and you have onboard the correct GM to work with that coach, then why would you need Sean Payton to be the one to tell you Murray is never going to work out. Why wouldn't the HC you hired to lead the team be trusted enough if he tells you Murray just isn't the answer.

Exactly. All any new HC can do that Kliff didn't is set better standards and expect more accountability. Kyler has to make the changes.
 

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I wouldn’t trade this year’s No. 3 pick for Payton. Just wouldn’t do it. Cards are positioned to grab the best player in the draft because No. 1 & 2 are likely to go for QBs and neither is best player in draft. The player likely will be a generational pick who the Cards desperately need. I do not think Kyler will play any harder for Payton or any of the other possible coaches. Like an alcoholic or smoker, Kyler will have to make the decision himself to change the negative aspects in his life holding him back. Once he does that, he’ll be an asset to any coach.
 

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Do I think he's a good coach? Sure. Overhyped, but a solid coach. But I don't care about that.

The reason I want Payton is it will prevent the "kick the can down the road" firings and hirings because of Kyler if they go with someone else as HC.

If anyone other than Payton fails with Kyler, chances are a new OC, or HC, etc.... will be brought in to adjust to Kyler and "unlock his potential".

I think Payton can get Kyler to live up to his potential.

However, if Payton goes up to MB after year 1 or year 2 and says "this kid doesn't want to put the work in" or "he just doesn't have it", then MB will be more likely to cut K1 loose and start from scratch.

The biggest issue this team has is not knowing if Kyler is the guy. I think MB would only act on Payton's assessment with that much $ involved. Otherwise, he'll keep kicking the can down the road trying to find someone that can reach K1.
Yep. I’ve been making the same point. If I’m an owner of a football team, I would move mountains to find out if my $250M investment was a good one. And, as everyone on this board is aware of, I remain 100% behind Murray until someone with NFL cred proves otherwise.
 

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I don't agree. The FO clearly know there is a Kyler issue. If the issue doesn't improve with another HC I don't believe their response will be "Well lets try a 3rd".

I think the new HC gets 2 seasons min with Kyler. At that point they can get out of Kyler with a stinging but not deadly $33m dead cap hit.
I agree with this. Michael already has doubts about Murray, but the results to date had been nearly unassailable. Now, if Kyler struggles under a new regime, it’ll become a Kyler problem.

Jay Cutler got three head coaches to play under, but one of them was Lovie Smith. Kyler won’t get as many chances.
 

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I agree with this. Michael already has doubts about Murray, but the results to date had been nearly unassailable. Now, if Kyler struggles under a new regime, it’ll become a Kyler problem.

Jay Cutler got three head coaches to play under, but one of them was Lovie Smith. Kyler won’t get as many chances.

Imagine having such a problem not 1 year after giving a massive extension. I really do not know what possesed them to give that contract. Steve Keim's illness may wellbe dumb contract disease.

It would not surprise me if Keim was pushed out because he insisted on doing that extension.
 

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Imagine having such a problem not 1 year after giving a massive extension. I really do not know what possesed them to give that contract. Steve Keim's illness may wellbe dumb contract disease.

It would not surprise me if Keim was pushed out because he insisted on doing that extension.

To be fair, Murray was holding a gun to their head, and at that point in time you could argue that K1 had shown enough on the field so that it made sense to do the deal.

What do the British say about hindsight @BritCard? :)
 
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