The Kingsbury Conundrum

82CardsGrad

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I think he has the talent to do it. Murray is reminds me of an infantile version of Rodgers

He knows how to throw with incredible amount of touch while still throwing the ball with power

His delivery is quick

His placement (when he is knows where to go with the football) is exceptional.


Championships wont be won because of all the rah rah stuff.

Of course championships aren't won with "rah rah" stuff. Your views of Murray are quite opposed to mine. For the last time I'll quickly summarize my concerns with him:

- His throwing mechanics are horrific, his completion % not-withstanding. I believe that if he doesn't improve his throwing mechanics and his footwork while in the pocket, he will never be a consistent top-tier performer throughout a season and throughout a career.

- His inability to make effective pre and post-snap reads is a vital flaw that needs to be improved upon asap.

- His unwillingness to remain in the pocket and wait that .5 second more to allow receivers to break open and/or allow them to get into a position where Kyler can throw them open, is yet another fatal flaw. If he isn't in full scramble mode, he is often falling backward and throwing off his back foot...

- Kyler doesn't react well to getting hit. Unlike all other successful QB's who get hit and keep their wits and their focus about them, Kyler tends to shrink after getting hit. I am not at all convinced he was truly injured on that last play vs SF. And, I can tell you that there are players on this team who feel the same.

- Unlike Mahomes, Wilson, Jackson, Mayfield, Allen, Herbert, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, etc - who all demonstrate a consistent passion and love for the game, during the game and in post-game pressers, Kyler rarely shows that type of passion for the love of the game. Some will shrug that off...but again, it is a very real concern and a clear illustration of an inability to inspire and lead.

Again, I hope the kid proves me and a growing number of other detractors, wrong.... but I believe he is on a very concerning trajectory that requires an immediate course correction. Hope it happens...
 

82CardsGrad

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In typical 82CardsGrad form, after he looks rather foolish, he waits for someone else to respond for him before he actually responds. Classic.

You really believe that? I can't help but all the more discredit your posts... :rolleyes:
 

DVontel

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Of course championships aren't won with "rah rah" stuff. Your views of Murray are quite opposed to mine. For the last time I'll quickly summarize my concerns with him:

- His throwing mechanics are horrific, his completion % not-withstanding. I believe that if he doesn't improve his throwing mechanics and his footwork while in the pocket, he will never be a consistent top-tier performer throughout a season and throughout a career.

- His inability to make effective pre and post-snap reads is a vital flaw that needs to be improved upon asap.

- His unwillingness to remain in the pocket and wait that .5 second more to allow receivers to break open and/or allow them to get into a position where Kyler can throw them open, is yet another fatal flaw. If he isn't in full scramble mode, he is often falling backward and throwing off his back foot...

- Kyler doesn't react well to getting hit. Unlike all other successful QB's who get hit and keep their wits and their focus about them, Kyler tends to shrink after getting hit. I am not at all convinced he was truly injured on that last play vs SF. And, I can tell you that there are players on this team who feel the same.

- Unlike Mahomes, Wilson, Jackson, Mayfield, Allen, Herbert, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, etc - who all demonstrate a consistent passion and love for the game, during the game and in post-game pressers, Kyler rarely shows that type of passion for the love of the game. Some will shrug that off...but again, it is a very real concern and a clear illustration of an inability to inspire and lead.

Again, I hope the kid proves me and a growing number of other detractors, wrong.... but I believe he is on a very concerning trajectory that requires an immediate course correction. Hope it happens...
There you go. You could’ve just did this instead of whatever that mess was earlier. Hell, I even agree with some of this.
 

football karma

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i dont think Bad Coach + Bad Roster = 8-8, even with an easy schedule

FWIW: the Cards Strength of Schedule was .475, which is around 12th easiest. Easiest was GB at .428.

its Strength of Victory was .441 (i.e winning % of the teams you beat), which surprisingly was top 10. The best was KC with .464. The Texans was .219 (yikes!).


im not saying KK and staff are all that -- but im also not buying that the team is a dumpster fire with a roster devoid of talent.
 

DVontel

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Mayfield, Herbert, Allen, & Rivers have won nothing though.

Jackson has, but he also has floundered embarrassingly as the favorite in last two playoffs.

We’ll see what the future holds for them.
 

Cheesebeef

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Mayfield, Herbert, Allen, & Rivers have won nothing though.

Jackson has, but he also has floundered embarrassingly as the favorite in last two playoffs.

We’ll see what the future holds for them.

in what universe was Jackson the favorite in the playoffs in his rookie year on what was a woefully mediocre Ravens team before he changed their 4-6 fortunes and won the last 6 games of the season, pretty much single-handedly.
 

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Of course championships aren't won with "rah rah" stuff. Your views of Murray are quite opposed to mine. For the last time I'll quickly summarize my concerns with him:

- His throwing mechanics are horrific, his completion % not-withstanding. I believe that if he doesn't improve his throwing mechanics and his footwork while in the pocket, he will never be a consistent top-tier performer throughout a season and throughout a career.

- His inability to make effective pre and post-snap reads is a vital flaw that needs to be improved upon asap.

- His unwillingness to remain in the pocket and wait that .5 second more to allow receivers to break open and/or allow them to get into a position where Kyler can throw them open, is yet another fatal flaw. If he isn't in full scramble mode, he is often falling backward and throwing off his back foot...

- Kyler doesn't react well to getting hit. Unlike all other successful QB's who get hit and keep their wits and their focus about them, Kyler tends to shrink after getting hit. I am not at all convinced he was truly injured on that last play vs SF. And, I can tell you that there are players on this team who feel the same.

- Unlike Mahomes, Wilson, Jackson, Mayfield, Allen, Herbert, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Rivers, etc - who all demonstrate a consistent passion and love for the game, during the game and in post-game pressers, Kyler rarely shows that type of passion for the love of the game. Some will shrug that off...but again, it is a very real concern and a clear illustration of an inability to inspire and lead.

Again, I hope the kid proves me and a growing number of other detractors, wrong.... but I believe he is on a very concerning trajectory that requires an immediate course correction. Hope it happens...

His throwing mechanics are not "horrific", you confuse verbiage (sound bites) for passion and love for the game then claim this as an illustration of a lack of leadership, which is nothing more than the expression of your peculiar bias. And from this dubious litany conclude that we should share your deep, deep concern and feigned hope.

Brilliant!
 
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DVontel

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in what universe was Jackson the favorite in the playoffs in his rookie year on what was a woefully mediocre Ravens team before he changed their 4-6 fortunes and won the last 6 games of the season, pretty much single-handedly.
It’s the same team they beat literally two weeks prior to where they straight up dominated the Chargers in the trenches. On the road, too. Go check out the odds were & who the national media were favoring.

Was that Ravens’ team really “woefully mediocre” or was Flacco was just that damn trash? And seeing him bounce from team to team, I think we know the answer. Ravens’ defense was & still is great. Lamar is great though. No doubting that. I like him & even defended him here prior to the 2018 draft. Eyebrows will be raised though if him & the Ravens go out sad for a 3rd time.
 

82CardsGrad

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His throwing mechanics are not "horrific", he has no "fatal" flaws - you confuse verbiage (sound bites) for passion and love for the game then claim this as an illustration of a lack of leadership, which is nothing more than the expression of your peculiar bias. And from this dubious litany conclude that we should share your deep, deep concern.

Brilliant!
Never suggested you should “share my deep concern,” or otherwise think like me at all... You’re totally free to feel however the hell you like. As am I. We disagree... I’m cool with that... are you?
 

Cheesebeef

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It’s the same team they beat literally two weeks prior to where they straight up dominated the Chargers in the trenches. On the road, too. Go check out the odds were & who the national media were favoring.

Was that Ravens’ team really “woefully mediocre” or was Flacco was just that damn trash? And seeing him bounce from team to team, I think we know the answer. Ravens’ defense was & still is great. Lamar is great though. No doubting that. I like him & even defended him here prior to the 2018 draft. Eyebrows will be raised though if him & the Ravens go out sad for a 3rd time.

ah... I read that as favorites throughout the playoffs.
 

SoonerLou

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Mayfield, Herbert, Allen, & Rivers have won nothing though.

Jackson has, but he also has floundered embarrassingly as the favorite in last two playoffs.

We’ll see what the future holds for them.
Weird about Herbert since the book on him was that he's an introvert as well coming out of college.

Those things dont matter I guess when you're playing really well.
 

DVontel

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Weird about Herbert since the book on him was that he's an introvert as well coming out of college.

Those things dont matter I guess when you're playing really well.
Exactly.

Man, that post gets funnier by the minute.
 

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Never suggested you should “share my deep concern,” or otherwise think like me at all... You’re totally free to feel however the hell you like. As am I. We disagree... I’m cool with that... are you?

Cool? Sure.

I've no problem disagreeing with your pointed exaggerations and feigned concern.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Eli carried a rather bad defense in 2011. Respect him for that.


I want sustained success, but not the Philip Rivers success where he’ll choke where it always matters the most.

He basically asked QBs who are pretty much “rah-rah” that won a title. Rodgers has never been looked up as that by anybody. Always been viewed as calm & collected, letting his play on the field talk for him.


I will add on that his (Rogers) off field demeanor gets put into question as well. I think that when it comes to "personality" (for lack of a better term) Rogers is a good comparison. Winning helps everything.
 

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Great! Since I share those pointed exaggerations and feigned concern. I just cannot seem to buy into your blind optimisms and baseless assurance. :D

Or you know, we just do not know what the future holds, and one person is pessimistic and another is optimistic. Tomato, tomato.

Tom-ato!!! ;)
 

ReasonableMan

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You yourself in this post say you don’t see a roster that can win big and I agree neither do.

is KK perfect no not all but is he the worst coach in the league no not at all.

at the end of the day this was a legit top ten offense with a horrible WR core outside of Hopkins and an average running game.

we were 8-8 with 5 losses coming by 1 score including 3 by a field goal.

I can legitimately look at Kirk and Zane and say you cost us 3 games.

Kirk took a huge step back, dropped 2 touchdowns in two separate one score games and that’s horrible but someone brought up the fact Kirk didn’t have one broken tackle all year. that’s super alarming. He feels contact and he just goes down that’s what that tells me. Anyone remember that sweep on the goal line and he pulled up at the 1? Then the whole party bus thing. Nobody disappointed me more than him. If....IF he’s on this team next year he should be a 3 at best.

How many times could we not punch it in from the 1? Our interior needs to be reworked and we need a different back. Drake is NFL average and I think he’s a quality back up but what he is not is a starter. We need a big physical bruising back or a explosive one who can break it open.

everybody loved to bring up the Patriots for the last 15 years. The Patriots do it like this we should do it like them. Well the Patriots have had a saying that whole time and it “Do your job” is KK perfect? Nope but he ain’t the one missing field goals and dropping catches in the end zone gotta do your job.

I want the best offensive weapon in this draft in rounds 1 and 2. Round 1 Pitts/Waddle/Smith and round 2 I’m taking the best RB on the board.

Fitz gone, Peterson gone if he doesn’t want to take a pay cut. That’s 25 million wrapped up in those two. My target in FA is Scherff or Thuney
We won’t have so many bad teams to beat up on next year. That’s a concern.
 

cardpa

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Hundley hasn’t been active all year, probably shouldn’t be hitting his girl huh( allegedly)

KK isn’t the GM. Your trying to put stuff on him he has no control over. It’s on SK to put the roster together

C'mon man, Kingsbury had input into the roster. You make it sound like Keim selected all 53 players who made the roster. Kingsbury decides on the weekly inactives. Kingsbury decides on the depth chart, not Keim.
 

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Did you watch any of the games this year?

Murray has shown all those things. You aren't putting up positive numbers in the NFL and reducing negative plays in your 2nd year without being able to read defenses and go through progressions.
Its not like we were doing those RPO passes to get chunk yardage either. We threw horizontal passes that went nowhere.

So there had to be some level of reading defenses.
 

Chopper0080

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Are we saying that the fate of our HC depends on the development and performance of our QB? Crazy man.

All sarcasm aside, I have to repeatedly check myself regarding Kyler. He is just so inexperienced that his development is just not where I would like it to be but it still is there. His mechanics are inconsistent not nonexistent. His reads are hit and miss but that is more because he is seeing things he has never seen vs being dumb. When he has a clean pocket he will move up in it and when he doesn't he shows that he is not used to a cluttered pocket and panics at times.
 

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3rd and 18....Let's run the ole option. 4th down, down 2 scores, time to punt. Any game we lost, "Take your hats off to them, they had a good game plan." AKA, they had a BETTER game plan. This is what we get after 2 full seasons?
Stupid is as stupid does. Kliff showed his mental make up enough in year two for us to show him the door.
 

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There seems to be a lot of "The WR aren't good enough" or the "RB's haven't been good".

This is the wrong way around. The players aren't holding back the scheme. The scheme is holding back the players.

There's nothing wrong with our receiving room. I see other teams getting much more from lesser players.

We just saw Kliff run a speed option on 3rd and 18 with the game on the line and a QB with a gimpy leg. One of the worst play calls of all time in my opinion. It shouldn't really be a question that Kliff is holding us back.
 
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