Murray and Leadership

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
10,874
Reaction score
23,356
Location
Orlando, FL
The Arizona Sports Cards Insider has taken on the issue of Murray’s leadership abilities. They correctly point out that numerous writers are still harping on the old theme that Murray is not a true leader. To their credit the article does a good job of quoting current players who support Murray. It also credits the new administration with supporting Murray in this respect. All of that is correct.

However, I think they missed the biggest reason there was an issue to begin with: Kliff Kingsbury. I don’t think he wanted a leader. I think he is like one of the dominating parents who wants to live their life vicariously through their kids. He didn’t want a QB who thought for himself. The virtual lack of audibles indicates to me that Kingsbury pressured Murray to run the plays he called. Murray was allowed to sit by himself between drives rather than having a coach with a tablet showing Murray what he was facing. It wasn’t important. Kingsbury would decide on any game-plan adjustments. Murray’s job was to throw the ball or run for his life. He was not expected to manage the game. I think the vast majority of game-plan faults laid with Murray’s failure to execute.

I hardly ever recall Kingsbury speaking with Murray on the sideline to inquire what Murray was seeing or even to encourage him. Murray was simply a weapon, not a director of action. Growing Murray’s ability to manage a game was not a role Kingsbury felt required to fulfill. Murray’s function was mechanical.

I admit I was critical of Murray’s leadership in his early years. Since then I have re-examined his situation and concluded he was in a no-win scenario. I’m not certain how Kingsbury will fare in his new role. I am, however, convinced the Cards’ staff has bought into Murray’s ability to lead. From the players’ reaction I also think Murray will adequately fulfill that aspect of his role. This is a new era for Arizona and I think the team will take a major step forward not only this season but for several years to come.
 

Cardsfaninlouky

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 10, 2019
Posts
4,433
Reaction score
5,872
Location
Louisville
Murray sat by himself a lot, however, I saw KK talking to him many times on the bench, can't recall one single time seeing the 2 looking at a tablet. I think you're spot on about running the play or make something happen with your feet. I think Murray grew in the leadership role last season, can't wait to see his growth this coming season.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
37,504
Reaction score
27,792
Location
Gilbert, AZ
The virtual lack of audibles indicates to me that Kingsbury pressured Murray to run the plays he called. Murray was allowed to sit by himself between drives rather than having a coach with a tablet showing Murray what he was facing.
This is hilariously non-factual.

Character is revealed during times of stress. Kliff was a terrible leader, and so was Keim. I believe Kyler understood that and chose not to invest in fixing it.

Easy for Kyler to be loose when expectations are zero. The whole topic is overblown probably. I’m more interested in whether Kyler Murray is able to take advantage of the weapons he’s been surrounded with.
 

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
60,521
Reaction score
23,339
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
OP
OP
Harry

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
10,874
Reaction score
23,356
Location
Orlando, FL
This is hilariously non-factual.

Character is revealed during times of stress. Kliff was a terrible leader, and so was Keim. I believe Kyler understood that and chose not to invest in fixing it.

Easy for Kyler to be loose when expectations are zero. The whole topic is overblown probably. I’m more interested in whether Kyler Murray is able to take advantage of the weapons he’s been surrounded with.
Just so I’m clear on this, you saw coaches sit with Murray and use a tablet to review what was transpiring on the field.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
37,572
Reaction score
22,958
The Arizona Sports Cards Insider has taken on the issue of Murray’s leadership abilities. They correctly point out that numerous writers are still harping on the old theme that Murray is not a true leader. To their credit the article does a good job of quoting current players who support Murray. It also credits the new administration with supporting Murray in this respect. All of that is correct.

However, I think they missed the biggest reason there was an issue to begin with: Kliff Kingsbury. I don’t think he wanted a leader. I think he is like one of the dominating parents who wants to live their life vicariously through their kids. He didn’t want a QB who thought for himself. The virtual lack of audibles indicates to me that Kingsbury pressured Murray to run the plays he called. Murray was allowed to sit by himself between drives rather than having a coach with a tablet showing Murray what he was facing. It wasn’t important. Kingsbury would decide on any game-plan adjustments. Murray’s job was to throw the ball or run for his life. He was not expected to manage the game. I think the vast majority of game-plan faults laid with Murray’s failure to execute.

I hardly ever recall Kingsbury speaking with Murray on the sideline to inquire what Murray was seeing or even to encourage him. Murray was simply a weapon, not a director of action. Growing Murray’s ability to manage a game was not a role Kingsbury felt required to fulfill. Murray’s function was mechanical.

I admit I was critical of Murray’s leadership in his early years. Since then I have re-examined his situation and concluded he was in a no-win scenario. I’m not certain how Kingsbury will fare in his new role. I am, however, convinced the Cards’ staff has bought into Murray’s ability to lead. From the players’ reaction I also think Murray will adequately fulfill that aspect of his role. This is a new era for Arizona and I think the team will take a major step forward not only this season but for several years to come.

What article are you referring to?
 

bankybruce

All In!
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
28,007
Reaction score
20,847
Location
Nowhere
Just so I’m clear on this, you saw coaches sit with Murray and use a tablet to review what was transpiring on the field.
Yes, I saw Cam Turner and his green hat quite often with Kyler. He seemed to the the only coach who spent time with him, but the was the QB coach and passing game coordinator.
 
Last edited:

CardNots

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 12, 2002
Posts
4,171
Reaction score
3,906
Location
Jenks, Oklahoma
Bottom line, I liked what I saw from Kyler last year under our new coaching staff showing the leadership I had not seen in the previous couple of years.

I have never been a Kyler fan and never thought he was the type of QB we needed.

My thoughts on Kyler have changed based on last year’s gutty performance.

It could be maturity or the needed coaching change but he looks focused.

Now I think he is perfect for this team.
 
Last edited:

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
37,572
Reaction score
22,958
Yes, I saw Cam Turner and his green hat quite often with Kyler. He seemed to the the only coach who spent time with him, but the was thr QB coach and passing game coordinator.
Yeah, I don't get the coaches never talking to him or him never looking at a tablet. It's not like I was taking notes but that did happen his entire career.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
37,572
Reaction score
22,958
Bottom line, I liked what I saw from Kyler last year under our new coaching staff showed the leadership I had not seen in the previous couple of years.

I have never been a Kyler fan and never thought he was the type of QB we needed.

My thoughts on Kyler have changed based on last year’s gutty performance.

It could be maturity or the needed coaching change but he looks focused.

Now I think he is perfect for this team.
I think everything we have seen and heard about this off season is what we have always wanted to hear about Kyler. I think that final drive to beat Philly was huge for his confidence, the coaches confidence, and his teammates belief in Kyler.
 

AZCB34

ASFN Icon
Joined
Sep 23, 2002
Posts
14,174
Reaction score
5,950
Location
Mesa, AZ
All Kliff and no Kyler. The apologist beat goes on. Cmon, Kyler got coaching during the week and during games. Perhaps it was flawed coaching but he got coaching. He’s a flawed QB too. Every one here is hopeful a big step forward will be made but let’s not try and wash away history as it truly was.
 

Crimson Warrior

Dangerous Murray Zealot
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
7,696
Reaction score
7,683
Location
Home of the Thunder
All Kliff and no Kyler. The apologist beat goes on. Cmon, Kyler got coaching during the week and during games. Perhaps it was flawed coaching but he got coaching. He’s a flawed QB too. Every one here is hopeful a big step forward will be made but let’s not try and wash away history as it truly was.

It wasn't just the coaching. It was the lack of leadership by KK, with an assist to the toxic culture created by SK.

I'm not saying being an effective leader is easy. In fact I think it's pretty hard to inspire 20+ year old men to be the best they can be. But Kingsbury inspired nobody, ever. I'm not saying he's stupid. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm saying guys don't want to play hard for him. They don't believe in him.
 

Redsz

We do this together
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Posts
4,609
Reaction score
1,502
I have been pleasantly surprised by what Kyler has demonstrated since returning from injury.

He seems focused and in tune with the teams coaching staff. He is working his butt off based on sound bites from his team mates, etc.

However, while all the vibes are positive so far, that does not necessarily demonstrate leadership. Still a long way to go.
 

Redsz

We do this together
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Posts
4,609
Reaction score
1,502
This is hilariously non-factual.

Character is revealed during times of stress. Kliff was a terrible leader, and so was Keim. I believe Kyler understood that and chose not to invest in fixing it.

Easy for Kyler to be loose when expectations are zero. The whole topic is overblown probably. I’m more interested in whether Kyler Murray is able to take advantage of the weapons he’s been surrounded with.
Agree. This will be Kylers best chance to succeed in a long time. The team has been built to maximise his abilities and take pressure off of him to win every game with hero ball.
 

Chris_Sanders

Not Always The Best Moderator
Super Moderator
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2002
Posts
38,429
Reaction score
28,057
Location
Scottsdale, Az
The Arizona Sports Cards Insider has taken on the issue of Murray’s leadership abilities. They correctly point out that numerous writers are still harping on the old theme that Murray is not a true leader. To their credit the article does a good job of quoting current players who support Murray. It also credits the new administration with supporting Murray in this respect. All of that is correct.

However, I think they missed the biggest reason there was an issue to begin with: Kliff Kingsbury. I don’t think he wanted a leader. I think he is like one of the dominating parents who wants to live their life vicariously through their kids. He didn’t want a QB who thought for himself. The virtual lack of audibles indicates to me that Kingsbury pressured Murray to run the plays he called. Murray was allowed to sit by himself between drives rather than having a coach with a tablet showing Murray what he was facing. It wasn’t important. Kingsbury would decide on any game-plan adjustments. Murray’s job was to throw the ball or run for his life. He was not expected to manage the game. I think the vast majority of game-plan faults laid with Murray’s failure to execute.

I hardly ever recall Kingsbury speaking with Murray on the sideline to inquire what Murray was seeing or even to encourage him. Murray was simply a weapon, not a director of action. Growing Murray’s ability to manage a game was not a role Kingsbury felt required to fulfill. Murray’s function was mechanical.

I admit I was critical of Murray’s leadership in his early years. Since then I have re-examined his situation and concluded he was in a no-win scenario. I’m not certain how Kingsbury will fare in his new role. I am, however, convinced the Cards’ staff has bought into Murray’s ability to lead. From the players’ reaction I also think Murray will adequately fulfill that aspect of his role. This is a new era for Arizona and I think the team will take a major step forward not only this season but for several years to come.

You can reinforce this point by the extremely limited route trees receivers ran along with the lack of motion.

Guys were put in very restrictive roles. You are the X receiver and you only run these routes.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
16,976
Reaction score
13,783
Location
Modesto, California
Narratives change.
Couple years back Kyler was being hated on because he and his backup were reviewing film on a tablet with their coach instead of running out on the field when a defender got injured.

Apparently now, that never happened...because kyler and his coach never looked at a tablet on the sidelines...


This damned Mandela affect really been screwing with me lately
 
Top