The Kingsbury Conundrum

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The jump to 10 wins was hitting 2-3 more FGs and Kirk not dropping 2-3 TDs.
yes, but

the team played in 9 one score games

they were 4-5 in those

So yes there were 5 games where if something went right they would have won it, but also 4 that they won where the opposite could have happened

the thing going for this seasons Cards is that their losses were competitive: of the 3 losses that werent one score games, they lost by 11, 10 and 10 pts -- so no real uncompetitive blowouts. Of their 4 non-one score wins: they won going way +15, +20, +28, +19 --- they finished with a positive point differential. That implies some upside to the record

what getting to 10 wins means is that a team has to have a winning record against the good teams on it schedule.

This year, they played 6 games vs 10 win opponents -- going 2-4. 3-3 would have gotten them in the playoffs. 4-2 would have made them a fashionable "dangerous" playoff team.
 

82CardsGrad

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Then the sky isn't falling like most of the board says it is. 8-8 is not bad, especially considering our putrid history.

Yea... you can of course take that perspective, or, you can rightfully question Kliff's ability to take this team to greater heights. Not to mention Murray to boot...
 

Cheesebeef

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The jump to 10 wins was hitting 2-3 more FGs and Kirk not dropping 2-3 TDs.

and the drop to 6 wins was a Hail Mary and all time terrible INT by Russ with less than a minute left in OT.

Team is what it is... one that game out of the gate firing with a very good to great offense to a team that completely melted down the last 7 games of the season with the offense turning very pedestrian and ending up disastrous when the chips were down.
 

Cheesebeef

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Then the sky isn't falling like most of the board says it is. 8-8 is not bad, especially considering our putrid history.

i will never understand accepting/propping up failure because it’s not as awful failure as we’ve seen in the past.

Ending a season 2-5, while
Playing the worst of the worst division and backup QBs and back up to to back up QBs is pathetic.
 

Finito

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Sure, but who the hell carried Zane Gonzales for so long? Who continued to Activate Streveler over Hundley? He made too many mistakes that cost us important games this year that we should've won.

Hundley hasn’t been active all year, probably shouldn’t be hitting his girl huh( allegedly)

KK isn’t the GM. Your trying to put stuff on him he has no control over. It’s on SK to put the roster together
 

Finito

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i will never understand accepting/propping up failure because it’s not as awful failure as we’ve seen in the past.

Ending a season 2-5, while
Playing the worst of the worst division and backup QBs and back up to to back up QBs is pathetic.

What did you have this team at to start the year?

If you watched The lions and Panthers game early you knew this team had real flaws. You bought into hype while ignoring obvious warning signs.

I said 8-8
 

blindseyed

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i will never understand accepting/propping up failure because it’s not as awful failure as we’ve seen in the past.

Ending a season 2-5, while
Playing the worst of the worst division and backup QBs and back up to to back up QBs is pathetic.
Gotta agree, I'm tired of the "we're improved from the 3-13 record in 2018" and forgetting we were 13-3 just 5 years ago
 

82CardsGrad

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i will never understand accepting/propping up failure because it’s not as awful failure as we’ve seen in the past.

Ending a season 2-5, while
Playing the worst of the worst division and backup QBs and back up to to back up QBs is pathetic.

No worries... we have a REVOLUTIONARY and oh so uber-cool coach! And a clear, can't-miss QB to boot!
 

Krangodnzr

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and the drop to 6 wins was a Hail Mary and all time terrible INT by Russ with less than a minute left in OT.

Team is what it is... one that game out of the gate firing with a very good to great offense to a team that completely melted down the last 7 games of the season with the offense turning very pedestrian and ending up disastrous when the chips were down.

And I don't disagree....but this team was pretty damn close to a 10 win season, and by every metric, the offense was pretty damn good.

I'm inclined to give Kingsbury another season, especially in light of the fact that I doubt the Cardinals will pay THREE head coaches at one time next year.
 

dreamcastrocks

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i will never understand accepting/propping up failure because it’s not as awful failure as we’ve seen in the past.

Ending a season 2-5, while
Playing the worst of the worst division and backup QBs and back up to to back up QBs is pathetic.

Only one team can win the SuperBowl, does that mean that the other 31 teams failed? Not to me it doesn't.

I am not propping it up, nor do I think 2-5 is acceptable. It isn't the worst thing in the world though. There are shades of grey, especially when our 8-8 record would make us average.
 

dreamcastrocks

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No worries... we have a REVOLUTIONARY and oh so uber-cool coach! And a clear, can't-miss QB to boot!

If you actually thought that KK would be revolutionary, then that is on you. There hasn't been a revolutionary offensive mind in the game since Bill Walsh.
 

82CardsGrad

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If you actually thought that KK would be revolutionary, then that is on you. There hasn't been a revolutionary offensive mind in the game since Bill Walsh.

I NEVER thought that and was against this moronic hiring from the day it was first announced! But this is how it was sold...Why else was he hired? What basis can you come up with to support such a hiring...a guy who failed in college and never previously coached in the NFL? What - he was a 3rd string QB under Belicheck????
 

dreamcastrocks

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I NEVER thought that and was against this moronic hiring from the day it was first announced! But this is how it was sold...Why else was he hired? What basis can you come up with to support such a hiring...a guy who failed in college and never previously coached in the NFL? What - he was a 3rd string QB under Belicheck????

I didn't mean you specifically, I meant more as a fan base.

Maybe he was considered a players 'rah rah' coach with a good offensive mind. Players coaches have done pretty well recently.
 

82CardsGrad

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I didn't mean you specifically, I meant more as a fan base.

Maybe he was considered a players 'rah rah' coach with a good offensive mind. Players coaches have done pretty well recently.

Bottom line - Mike B and Keim royally screwed up here. It's a major bummer and worse, they will press a bad hand now by hitting on this 16 while the dealer shows an Ace.

Additionally, the issues surrounding Murray will mount to boot. What was really going on while he was in and out of the locker room in LA? And if he really was so hurt as to keep him out until the 4th quarter, why then did our clueless coach call a serious of running plays for Kyler? One of which came after a timeout on a 3rd and 18, where the play was a bootleg?????
I already know that there are some players who have "concerns" about Kyler... questioning his love for the game and his ability to actually lead. Under Kliff, these issues will only grow...
This ship, with KK and K1 at the helm, is heading for an iceburg.
 

GuernseyCard

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i will never understand accepting/propping up failure because it’s not as awful failure as we’ve seen in the past.

Ending a season 2-5, while
Playing the worst of the worst division and backup QBs and back up to to back up QBs is pathetic.

We didn't lose to the worst of the worst division, which wasn't the worst in the last quarter of the season.
 

MadCardDisease

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Agree with you 100% Harry. We can go through all the details but ultimately after he figured out that he can’t go solely full spread all the time I haven’t seen a propensity to learn, grow or adapt and that’s the biggest nail in a coach’s coffin imo.

Yep the book is out on Kliff. Keep Kyler in the pocket and you have solved Kliff's offense.

Kliff has done nothing to prove that he can adapt his offense.
 

TaylorSwift

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Bottom line - Mike B and Keim royally screwed up here. It's a major bummer and worse, they will press a bad hand now by hitting on this 16 while the dealer shows an Ace.

Additionally, the issues surrounding Murray will mount to boot. What was really going on while he was in and out of the locker room in LA? And if he really was so hurt as to keep him out until the 4th quarter, why then did our clueless coach call a serious of running plays for Kyler? One of which came after a timeout on a 3rd and 18, where the play was a bootleg?????
I already know that there are some players who have "concerns" about Kyler... questioning his love for the game and his ability to actually lead. Under Kliff, these issues will only grow...
This ship, with KK and K1 at the helm, is heading for an iceburg.


Even if this is true, Nothing suggests Kyler does nothing than put his best foot forward during practice and on game day.

Kyler is an introvert and I know how people tend to take introversion as off-putish

They are professionals, if they need another grown man to light a fire under their butt to play a kids game, they need different line of work.
 

82CardsGrad

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Even if this is true, Nothing suggests Kyler does nothing than put his best foot forward during practice and on game day.

Kyler is an introvert and I know how people tend to take introversion as off-putish

They are professionals, if they need another grown man to light a fire under their butt to play a kids game, they need different line of work.

Try to name a Championship team that didn't have a pure, inspirational & motivational leader, and in some cases a true alpha-male, as their starting QB...
 

RugbyMuffin

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Did you watch any of the games this year?

Murray has shown all those things. You aren't putting up positive numbers in the NFL and reducing negative plays in your 2nd year without being able to read defenses and go through progressions.

I watched every single game, every single play. May be my last year doing it for reasons outside of the team's success, but I did watch them all, even while traveling the country.

He was very inconsistent and at times left a lot of plays out there when it comes to reading defenses and progressions. He is in his 2nd year running a gimmick offense so I will reserve my final decision, thus why I stated what I did as an IF.

He does need to step up in the pocket. He has everything you need to succeed, but we need someone to get him to the NFL level, IMHO.

I thought about this a bit more while at the gym (my goodness this is a boring time with this COVID) and Aaron Rogers is pretty fragile but he knows when to step up in the pocket, when to scramble and when to run (when he used to run). Thus I think it will come with experience. Then on top of that, while Drew Brees' size is something that people like to point to when talking about Murray, I did take Brees a bit to find his stride in this league as well.

As I said, I want to be wrong here, and I still think I am, but that was a putrid end of the season, and as Cardinals fans, we know cow dung when we see it.
 

az jam

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Even if this is true, Nothing suggests Kyler does nothing than put his best foot forward during practice and on game day.

Kyler is an introvert and I know how people tend to take introversion as off-putish

They are professionals, if they need another grown man to light a fire under their butt to play a kids game, they need different line of work.

I totally agree with you. But you won't get agreement from the posters here. These are the naysayers. Better off not even trying to get into a reasonable debate.
 

TaylorSwift

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Try to name a Championship team that didn't have a pure, inspirational & motivational leader, and in some cases a true alpha-male, as their starting QB...

This is Aaron Rodgers

https://fansided.com/2019/04/04/aaron-rodgers-packers-mike-mccarthy-feud/

n 2016, former Packer Jermichael Finley took shots at Rodgers ability to lead saying, “I just don’t think he was a natural-born leader. He wasn’t put on Earth to lead.”

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2...l-aaron-rodgers-petty-entitled-sensitive.html

Rodgers’ former teammates quoted in the piece paint a negative picture of the quarterback, regularly using words like “sensitive,” “petty” and “entitled" to describe him. At one point, the feature described former Packers receiver Greg Jennings as seeing Rodgers as an “ultrasensitive source of toxicity.
 

DVontel

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Try to name a Championship team that didn't have a pure, inspirational & motivational leader, and in some cases a true alpha-male, as their starting QB...
Aaron Rodgers.
Joe Flacco.
Eli Manning.
Nick Foles.


Damn, that was easy.
 
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