The Case for Taking Reese Third

Harry

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Arvell Reese raises the question, is there a better version of Isiah Simmons? The mere suggestion may drive most Cardinal fans to distraction. I must give fair warning I’m not an endorser and that may have impacted this appraisal. Many reviewers think if properly coached he can become the next Micah Parsons. If they’re right he’d be hard to pass on. For me I’m concerned about how he disappeared in multiple games.

Reese is quite the physical specimen. 6’4”, 243, strong and he runs a 4.52. He’s unquestionably a great athlete. Assessors love his versatility, but note PFF grades were mediocre except at outside LB. I think it is fair to say, like Daniels, he’s certain to be a successful rusher on passing downs.

Here’s the good stuff. As a pass rusher he has a quick first step, good bend when needed, an excellent closing burst and solid tackling form. His tackling in particular stands out displaying violence, powerful hands and an exceptional tackling radius. As a run stopper, his tackling ability makes him a good run stopper with lateral agility that allows him move from sideline to sideline.

His problems are noteworthy but he is very coachable convincing many these issues are correctable. The biggest concern is he’s a liability in pass coverage. In man he has trouble mirroring and recovering out of breaks. In zone he reacts slowly and has a reputation for covering grass(phrase used by scouts for players who miss the point of zone). He fails to consistently get a deep enough drop to seal the middle. For some these problems are so severe they question if he can be a 3 down LB. He reminds me of White in pass coverage.

Other issues include getting repeatedly suckered by play action. He also takes the bait on QB run/pass options chasing the runner without the ball. Cutbacks also can fool him. When he gets to the ball carrier he makes the play. He’s just not always in the right place. Keep in mind these concerns only happen occasionally. His pass rushing technique also has flaws. He allows himself to be caught up with blockers seemingly trying to show off his strength. Like Daniels he can lose contain by leaving a gap. He does reduce this concern with his long arms and burst to overtake escaping QBs. Finally it’s worth noting he’s gotten by on quickness and speed when rushing rather than developing a wide array of moves.

This is a talented player with great potential. He could be worth the third pick. He won’t be worthless. I’m not certain he’ll be outstanding.
 

oaken1

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Arvell Reese raises the question, is there a better version of Isiah Simmons? The mere suggestion may drive most Cardinal fans to distraction. I must give fair warning I’m not an endorser and that may have impacted this appraisal. Many reviewers think if properly coached he can become the next Micah Parsons. If they’re right he’d be hard to pass on. For me I’m concerned about how he disappeared in multiple games.

Reese is quite the physical specimen. 6’4”, 243, strong and he runs a 4.52. He’s unquestionably a great athlete. Assessors love his versatility, but note PFF grades were mediocre except at outside LB. I think it is fair to say, like Daniels, he’s certain to be a successful rusher on passing downs.

Here’s the good stuff. As a pass rusher he has a quick first step, good bend when needed, an excellent closing burst and solid tackling form. His tackling in particular stands out displaying violence, powerful hands and an exceptional tackling radius. As a run stopper, his tackling ability makes him a good run stopper with lateral agility that allows him move from sideline to sideline.

His problems are noteworthy but he is very coachable convincing many these issues are correctable. The biggest concern is he’s a liability in pass coverage. In man he has trouble mirroring and recovering out of breaks. In zone he reacts slowly and has a reputation for covering grass(phrase used by scouts for players who miss the point of zone). He fails to consistently get a deep enough drop to seal the middle. For some these problems are so severe they question if he can be a 3 down LB. He reminds me of White in pass coverage.

Other issues include getting repeatedly suckered by play action. He also takes the bait on QB run/pass options chasing the runner without the ball. Cutbacks also can fool him. When he gets to the ball carrier he makes the play. He’s just not always in the right place. Keep in mind these concerns only happen occasionally. His pass rushing technique also has flaws. He allows himself to be caught up with blockers seemingly trying to show off his strength. Like Daniels he can lose contain by leaving a gap. He does reduce this concern with his long arms and burst to overtake escaping QBs. Finally it’s worth noting he’s gotten by on quickness and speed when rushing rather than developing a wide array of moves.

This is a talented player with great potential. He could be worth the third pick. He won’t be worthless. I’m not certain he’ll be outstanding.
Most of those issues are caused by hyper aggression with lazy eyes.
It can be coached out. But patience is difficult to teach any youngster...even when you're only asking for a few microseconds...
Teaching him to play the ball and not the player usually isn't that hard...
But in the NFL these coordinators will abuse him for it so bad he will contemplate quitting the game if he doesn't learn fast.
 

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Other issues include getting repeatedly suckered by play action. He also takes the bait on QB run/pass options chasing the runner without the ball.

Shanahan and McVay will take advantage of him just like they did Simmons/same reasons.
We can't have a big liability like that on defense - makes it too easy for the offense.
 

Chopper0080

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I disagree with the Simmons comp. I don't think that is what he was in college this year nor do I think it is what he will be used at as a pro.

I think, like Micah Parsons and Abdul Carter who took similar paths, Arvell Reese will be drafted to be an EDGE player. Full stop. Where I think you will see his swiss army knife is how he can be moved around to RUSH from different areas, just like Parsons and Carter. He won't be playing ILB, he will just be lining up over the C or other spots to find different matchups to rush the passer. He isn't going to be playing S. He won't be lined up over the slot. He is not going to play ILB on base downs. He is going to be an edge rusher who just has the ability to walk around and rush from different spots.

I agree with the drop off in production concerns. His lack of experience at the position. I have not found any concerns over the guy and he seemed to get along with Matt Patricia at OSU which some players have had a tough time with. He has better lateral quickness and stop/start than Simmons had, and has more of a LB head on his shoulders.

I like him better than Bain...I think.
 

Chopper0080

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If he’s 243 he wears it better than anyone I’ve seen at that size. Need proof lol.
I always like to wait a bit for official measurements because I am not good enough to tell from video. My guess is that he will come in around 245 if he is really 6'4.
 

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I disagree with the Simmons comp. I don't think that is what he was in college this year nor do I think it is what he will be used at as a pro.

I think, like Micah Parsons and Abdul Carter who took similar paths, Arvell Reese will be drafted to be an EDGE player. Full stop. Where I think you will see his swiss army knife is how he can be moved around to RUSH from different areas, just like Parsons and Carter. He won't be playing ILB, he will just be lining up over the C or other spots to find different matchups to rush the passer. He isn't going to be playing S. He won't be lined up over the slot. He is not going to play ILB on base downs. He is going to be an edge rusher who just has the ability to walk around and rush from different spots.

I agree with the drop off in production concerns. His lack of experience at the position. I have not found any concerns over the guy and he seemed to get along with Matt Patricia at OSU which some players have had a tough time with. He has better lateral quickness and stop/start than Simmons had, and has more of a LB head on his shoulders.

I like him better than Bain...I think.
Finally, someone who gets it. He's not Simmons and won't be used anything like him.
 

TheCardFan

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Maybe. Or maybe people realize the gap in sacks this year between him and Bain was 2, and Reese profiles as a better NFL pass rusher.

Let's also look at production throughout college.

Bain had 7.5 sacks as a freshman - Reese couldn't get playing time or production until this year (his third year)
Bain has more sacks this year than Reese has in college career.

You have to admit that everyone in on Reese is about the potential of what he could be...not what he has done in college.
That is pretty risky for a top 5 pick IMO
 

TheCardFan

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That's what all draft picks are. That's what the scouts fall in love with, their potential in the NFL.

Of course but that's where production comes in - smaller gap between production and potential (less risk) - larger gap (more risk).

Reese have very limited production the past three years for a top 5 pick
 

Shane

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Of course but that's where production comes in - smaller gap between production and potential (less risk) - larger gap (more risk).

Reese have very limited production the past three years for a top 5 pick
And Bain has 30” inch arms. There is no case of a player ever having arms that short dominating in the NFL? Isn’t that what we need at #3? Someone dominant?
 

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I disagree with the Simmons comp. I don't think that is what he was in college this year nor do I think it is what he will be used at as a pro.

I think, like Micah Parsons and Abdul Carter who took similar paths, Arvell Reese will be drafted to be an EDGE player. Full stop. Where I think you will see his swiss army knife is how he can be moved around to RUSH from different areas, just like Parsons and Carter. He won't be playing ILB, he will just be lining up over the C or other spots to find different matchups to rush the passer. He isn't going to be playing S. He won't be lined up over the slot. He is not going to play ILB on base downs. He is going to be an edge rusher who just has the ability to walk around and rush from different spots.

I agree with the drop off in production concerns. His lack of experience at the position. I have not found any concerns over the guy and he seemed to get along with Matt Patricia at OSU which some players have had a tough time with. He has better lateral quickness and stop/start than Simmons had, and has more of a LB head on his shoulders.

I like him better than Bain...I think.
If we were drafting in the teens, maybe. MAYBE. No more of this poke and hope ish at the top of the draft. No more "Sure, sure, we'll MAKE this his main position" nonsense. Just say no.

No vitriol aimed at you @Chopper0080.
 

Cbus cardsfan

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Of course but that's where production comes in - smaller gap between production and potential (less risk) - larger gap (more risk).

Reese have very limited production the past three years for a top 5 pick
Agree that Reese is a risk and I'm not touting him at 3. Production-wise Love and Maiuiga(I know I butchered his name) have been the most productive.

If I'm running the Cards draft, I'd take the Love or the OT from Miami at 3 and trade back into round 1 for Simpson. Interestingly, the mock drafts I've looked at (not that many but well-respected guys) have not even had Simpson in the top 20.
 

football karma

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If we were drafting in the teens, maybe.
I think we all need to adjust our expectations

this is a pretty mediocre draft overall at the top -- the players without flaws are at Safety and RB. Higher value position players all have ?. Maybe Makai Lemon is in there.

I suspect if Reese / Bain / Bailey were in last years draft -- it would be the teens for them
 

Weenus O'Baggins

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I think we all need to adjust our expectations

this is a pretty mediocre draft overall at the top -- the players without flaws are at Safety and RB. Higher value position players all have ?. Maybe Makai Lemon is in there.

I suspect if Reese / Bain / Bailey were in last years draft -- it would be the teens for them

Yeah this just looks to be a pretty meh draft pool.
 

Chopper0080

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Let's also look at production throughout college.

Bain had 7.5 sacks as a freshman - Reese couldn't get playing time or production until this year (his third year)
Bain has more sacks this year than Reese has in college career.

You have to admit that everyone in on Reese is about the potential of what he could be...not what he has done in college.
That is pretty risky for a top 5 pick IMO
He has played ILB for the other years of his career. Patricia moved him to the EDGE. Very similar to what Penn St did with Parsons and Carter.
 
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