The 2018-2019 Around the NBA thread

[Phrazbit]

You just made the argument why to sign him. He's an all star and a name and bottom line they ain't gonna get any better name anytime soon.

You can't do the whole he didn't win in Minnestota. He didn't have a good team around him and no don't produce a bunch of average guys and try and tell me how they were better than given credit for.

He won't have a good team around him in Cleveland either.

They should have traded him and rebuilt. Now they're just delaying the inevitable for what will probably amount to a half season worth of good attendance before the fan base collectively realizes they're screwed for the next 4 years... more so because they just turned one of their best trade chips (Love on his old contract) into an albatross (Love on his new contract).

 

[Hoop Head]

He won't have a good team around him in Cleveland either.

They should have traded him and rebuilt. Now they're just delaying the inevitable for what will probably amount to a half season worth of good attendance before the fan base collectively realizes they're screwed for the next 4 years... more so because they just turned one of their best trade chips (Love on his old contract) into an albatross (Love on his new contract).

Most of the deals they have expire in 2 years, including JR Smith, Clarkson, and Tristan Thompson. When that happens they will have max space available to sign someone and it's easier to pitch a pairing with an All-Star like Love than without anyone. They're in the East, a team with a star + Kevin Love may be able to make a run. I think people are downplaying the rest of their roster too much also. It's not a great team by any means but it's full of players used to winning. The majority of the roster has been to the last couple of NBA Finals. They're not going there next year or the year after but they should be capable of getting swept in the 1st round by someone.

George Hill, JR Smith, Korver, Love, and Tristan Thompson with Nance, Clarkson, and Sexton coming in off the bench. It's not great but it's better than nothing. Everyone is advocating they bottom out entirely like the Suns and while that may help them, the improved lottery odds for teams that typically landed later in the lottery make it unnecessary for them to tank like the Suns or Sixers. They can fight for a playoff spot while replacing vets as they expire.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You just made the argument why to sign him. He's an all star and a name and bottom line they ain't gonna get any better name anytime soon.

You can't do the whole he didn't win in Minnestota. He didn't have a good team around him and no don't produce a bunch of average guys and try and tell me how they were better than given credit for.

Paying 30 million dollars for an okay third banana who will do nothing for the club on the court to get them even close to the playoffs is pointless. Doesn't help you in the present or the future.

But if you traded him prior to that idiotic contract, at least you could have gotten something for him in the future.

In this scenario they'll suck balls with his meaningless 20/10 and then they'll literally have nothing to show for that once his contract is done.

Should have accepted full tear down, trade Love to get assets while they could and start from ground up.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Most of the deals they have expire in 2 years, including JR Smith, Clarkson, and Tristan Thompson. When that happens they will have max space available to sign someone and it's easier to pitch a pairing with an All-Star like Love than without anyone. They're in the East, a team with a star + Kevin Love may be able to make a run. I think people are downplaying the rest of their roster too much also. It's not a great team by any means but it's full of players used to winning. The majority of the roster has been to the last couple of NBA Finals. They're not going there next year or the year after but they should be capable of getting swept in the 1st round by someone.

The majority of their roster has been to the last couple of NBA Finals? They have literally only 4 players that have been to the last couple NBA Finals. That's not close to a majority, especially with word that Korver's on the trade block about to leave as well. And it's tough to say the other guys they got this year in the last 30 games are used to winning. They got carried by LeBron once. Otherwise, they played for bad or mediocre clubs.

George Hill, JR Smith, Korver, Love, and Tristan Thompson with Nance, Clarkson, and Sexton coming in off the bench. It's not great but it's better than nothing. Everyone is advocating they bottom out entirely like the Suns and while that may help them, the improved lottery odds for teams that typically landed later in the lottery make it unnecessary for them to tank like the Suns or Sixers. They can fight for a playoff spot while replacing vets as they expire.

No one is going to go to Cleveland for a Max, with or without Love. And this team will be amongst the worst in the league. They ain't fighting for squat as far as playoffs go, even in the East.

 

[GatorAZ]

Vince Carter is the NBA’s anti-Ring Chaser!

 

[Hoop Head]

The majority of their roster has been to the last couple of NBA Finals? They have literally only THREE players that have been to the last couple NBA Finals. That's not a majority. It's tough to say the other guys they got this year in the last 30 games are used to winning. They got carried by LeBron once. Otherwise, they played for bad or mediocre clubs.

Hill, Clarkson, Nance, Osman, and Zizic all went to the finals last year. However Love, Thompson, Smith, Korver, and Frye have been there for multiple appearances. That's more than 3 right?

No one is going to go to Cleveland for a Max, with or without Love. And this team will be amongst the worst in the league. They ain't fighting for squat as far as playoffs go, even in the East.

Ok, no one is signing with Cleveland but it's better to keep one star there than being paying below the cap minimum every year to field a team of rookies and draft picks. He's not stopping them from getting more picks and according to some, he won't help them win, so why not retain him to sell tickets and please fans? What do they really gain by dumping him somewhere? All of their fans being pissed they couldn't keep any key components of their title teams. No one thinks they can contend for a title. Making the playoffs can make them more money and keep fan interest up and if they miss the playoffs, they add a lottery pick and still keep their All-Star, how exactly is that terrible? That would put them where the Suns have been and Suns fans haven't been happy the last few years.

 

[Phrazbit]

Most of the deals they have expire in 2 years, including JR Smith, Clarkson, and Tristan Thompson. When that happens they will have max space available to sign someone and it's easier to pitch a pairing with an All-Star like Love than without anyone. They're in the East, a team with a star + Kevin Love may be able to make a run. I think people are downplaying the rest of their roster too much also. It's not a great team by any means but it's full of players used to winning. The majority of the roster has been to the last couple of NBA Finals. They're not going there next year or the year after but they should be capable of getting swept in the 1st round by someone.

George Hill, JR Smith, Korver, Love, and Tristan Thompson with Nance, Clarkson, and Sexton coming in off the bench. It's not great but it's better than nothing. Everyone is advocating they bottom out entirely like the Suns and while that may help them, the improved lottery odds for teams that typically landed later in the lottery make it unnecessary for them to tank like the Suns or Sixers. They can fight for a playoff spot while replacing vets as they expire.

They're used to winning because they had LeBron dragging them around. I honestly think that roster is a flaming pile of garbage. Their over under is 35 wins... IMO they'll fall well short, I think they're right around a bottom 5 team WITH Love.

I'm not saying bottom out purely to tank, I'm saying it's a bad team with no hope of success, they should cash out what players they have before they lose their value.

I can see their continuously short sighted ownership being concerned with giving the fans something after LeBron bounced out of town, but that something won't matter at all when it's March and they're 19-35, the fans will be staying home with or without Love.

Their only hope is to accumulate moveable assets and picks and rebuild. Fighting for mediocrity will only prolong the mystery... and I don't think this team will even sniff mediocrity and I suspect in 2 years they're going to be saying to themselves "It would be really nice if we could get something for Love... too bad we still owe him 65 million".

 

[Cheesebeef]

Hill, Clarkson, Nance, Osman, and Zizic all went to the finals last year. However Love, Thompson, Smith, Korver, and Frye have been there for multiple appearances. That's more than 3 right?

Forgot Frye went back there. So, what you have is 5 guys out of 12 have been there the last couple years. Last time I checked 5/12 isn't a majority. And again, Korver is rumored out soon so that will make 4 guys who have been to the Finals in the last couple years. Four guys out of a roster of 12 isn't a majority and neither is 5 if Korver doesn't leave.

Ok, no one is signing with Cleveland but it's better to keep one star there than being paying below the cap minimum every year to field a team of rookies and draft picks.

Why? He's not helping you win now so what's the point?

He's not stopping them from getting more picks and according to some, he won't help them win, so why not retain him to sell tickets and please fans? What do they really gain by dumping him somewhere?

Simple... draft picks to rebuild with.

All of their fans being pissed they couldn't keep any key components of their title teams.

I think all of their fans, or at least most of their fans are pretty happy with the run they were on and knew it was over and have some lean years ahead of them. Desperately hanging on to the 3rd guy who made the least amount of impact on the court for them and paying him like the first accomplishes nothing on the court, IMO.

No one thinks they can contend for a title. Making the playoffs can make them more money and keep fan interest up and if they miss the playoffs, they add a lottery pick and still keep their All-Star, how exactly is that terrible?

Jeez... this is just straight Sarver thinking. Doing anything to stay in the middle will keep the team in purgatory and it's just beyond apparent it's time for them to go to hell for a couple seasons before they get back. That team needs as many young assets as possible to ever get better and Love was the best piece to do so. He's 30 years old.

That would put them where the Suns have been and Suns fans haven't been happy the last few years.

They just came off 4 straight finals and an NBA title three years ago. When a run like that ends, it's time to rebuild from scratch. How that compares in any way shape or form to what we've been through is really confusing to me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They're used to winning because they had LeBron dragging them around. I honestly think that roster is a flaming pile of garbage. Their over under is 35 wins... IMO they'll fall well short, I think they're right around a bottom 5 team WITH Love.

I'm not saying bottom out purely to tank, I'm saying it's a bad team with no hope of success, they should cash out what players they have before they lose their value.

I can see their continuously short sighted ownership being concerned with giving the fans something after LeBron bounced out of town, but that something won't matter at all when it's March and they're 19-35, the fans will be staying home with or without Love.

Their only hope is to accumulate moveable assets and picks and rebuild. Fighting for mediocrity will only prolong the mystery... and I don't think this team will even sniff mediocrity and I suspect in 2 years they're going to be saying to themselves "It would be really nice if we could get something for Love... too bad we still owe him 65 million".

Bingo.

In essence Poophead is arguing that the Cavs do the same misguided plan the Suns tried for years before they finally realized they needed youth, assets and the highest picks possible to get out of purgatory.

 

[Hoop Head]

They're used to winning because they had LeBron dragging them around. I honestly think that roster is a flaming pile of garbage. Their over under is 35 wins... IMO they'll fall well short, I think they're right around a bottom 5 team WITH Love.

I'm not saying bottom out purely to tank, I'm saying it's a bad team with no hope of success, they should cash out what players they have before they lose their value.

I can see their continuously short sighted ownership being concerned with giving the fans something after LeBron bounced out of town, but that something won't matter at all when it's March and they're 19-35, the fans will be staying home with or without Love.

Their only hope is to accumulate moveable assets and picks and rebuild. Fighting for mediocrity will only prolong the mystery... and I don't think this team will even sniff mediocrity and I suspect in 2 years they're going to be saying to themselves "It would be really nice if we could get something for Love... too bad we still owe him 65 million".

I don't think they could have gotten a return for Love that is worth what he now is to Cleveland. He's worth that money to them specifically, it's an overpay anywhere else. He might be worth a couple of mid rounders, maybe even a lottery pick, but it was rumored they had been shopping him before this. Chances are they didn't get a good offer. With Dan Gilbert owning the team, a winning season this year is having a better record than the Lakers and Lebron. If the Cav's somehow get to the playoffs before Lebron does that will be a win for Cleveland, and especially Gilbert. Might even be for Ty Lue also.

With the new lottery odds, it's not that big of a risk retaining him, IMO. He plays well, makes a couple more All-Star teams and helps remind Cleveland fans of brighter days. They're still riding a championship wave having won it only 3 years ago. 35 wins could make the playoffs in the East also. It's top heavy but the better teams still aren't great or legit contenders quite yet. The have nots in the East are built similar, 1 borderline All-Star with a hodgepodge of "talent" around them. Only Cleveland's "talent" are guys nearing the end of their careers instead of being toward the beginning.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think they could have gotten a return for Love that is worth what he now is to Cleveland. He's worth that money to them specifically, it's an overpay anywhere else. He might be worth a couple of mid rounders, maybe even a lottery pick, but it was rumored they had been shopping him before this. Chances are they didn't get a good offer. With Dan Gilbert owning the team, a winning season this year is having a better record than the Lakers and Lebron. If the Cav's somehow get to the playoffs before Lebron does that will be a win for Cleveland, and especially Gilbert. Might even be for Ty Lue also.

do you actually believe there's a universe where this shwag-ass Cleveland team has a better record than the Lakers?! The Lakers won 35 games last year with their young guys, lost none of them and added the best player in the game. I'd make ANY bet that the Lakers won't just have a better record than the Cavs, but it won't be within ten games.

And seriously... if that's Gilbert's mindset and I'm a fan of the team, I'm calling for his head because that would be freaking idiotic.

With the new lottery odds, it's not that big of a risk retaining him, IMO. He plays well, makes a couple more All-Star teams and helps remind Cleveland fans of brighter days. They're still riding a championship wave having won it only 3 years ago. 35 wins could make the playoffs in the East also. It's top heavy but the better teams still aren't great or legit contenders quite yet. The have nots in the East are built similar, 1 borderline All-Star with a hodgepodge of "talent" around them. Only Cleveland's "talent" are guys nearing the end of their careers instead of being toward the beginning.

jeez... I think you're ridiculously overrating the trash that's still in Cleveland. Again, this "reminding Cleveland of the good old days" thinking is straight Sarver trying to hold on to the idea the Suns were competitive after Amare left. That left them in nowheresville.

If the above is what Gilbert's thinking, then it just goes to show he's the same moron who's team instantly became atrocious the second LeBron left the first time.

 

[Phrazbit]

I don't think they could have gotten a return for Love that is worth what he now is to Cleveland. He's worth that money to them specifically, it's an overpay anywhere else. He might be worth a couple of mid rounders, maybe even a lottery pick, but it was rumored they had been shopping him before this. Chances are they didn't get a good offer. With Dan Gilbert owning the team, a winning season this year is having a better record than the Lakers and Lebron. If the Cav's somehow get to the playoffs before Lebron does that will be a win for Cleveland, and especially Gilbert. Might even be for Ty Lue also.

With the new lottery odds, it's not that big of a risk retaining him, IMO. He plays well, makes a couple more All-Star teams and helps remind Cleveland fans of brighter days. They're still riding a championship wave having won it only 3 years ago. 35 wins could make the playoffs in the East also. It's top heavy but the better teams still aren't great or legit contenders quite yet. The have nots in the East are built similar, 1 borderline All-Star with a hodgepodge of "talent" around them. Only Cleveland's "talent" are guys nearing the end of their careers instead of being toward the beginning.

I think our huge disconnect is "what Love is worth to Cleveland". A vet that costs you 30 million dollars a year and MIGHT be the difference between finishing 5 games out of the playoffs or 10 games out... to me, that's not value, that is a net negative. If all they could get were some middling firsts... they should've taken it, I'm sure the offers would be far worse now with Love on that deal.

And they're not finishing ahead of the Lakers, not unless LeBron has a serious injury... and even then. The Lakers won 35 games last year, I doubt the Cavs win 35 games, even in the lousy East.

I remember the last time LeBron left and people thought the Cavs would be an low playoff seed, maybe even meet the Heat in the first round. Nope. They were the worst team in the NBA... and they won 61 games the year before.

I don't think this Cavs team will be the league's worst... but it honestly wouldn't surprise me. Love is the only above average starter on the roster and I don't expect him to return to his T'Wolves production. Nance might elevate his game to being a solid starter. JR Smith is a dumpster fire who I think will be even more unhinged. Clarkson is okay, Hood... is... iffy (and still unsigned I think).

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers

I thought about delving deeper into how bad that roster is but I'll just let that link speak for itself. Good lord, that team is going to be BAD.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think our huge disconnect is "what Love is worth to Cleveland". A vet that costs you 30 million dollars a year and MIGHT be the difference between finishing 5 games out of the playoffs or 10 games out... to me, that's not value, that is a net negative. If all they could get were some middling firsts... they should've taken it, I'm sure the offers would be far worse now with Love on that deal.

And they're not finishing ahead of the Lakers, not unless LeBron has a serious injury... and even then. The Lakers won 35 games last year, I doubt the Cavs win 35 games, even in the lousy East.

I remember the last time LeBron left and people thought the Cavs would be an low playoff seed, maybe even meet the Cavs in the first round. Nope. They were the worst team in the NBA... and they won 61 games the year before.

I don't think this Cavs team will be the league's worst... but it honestly wouldn't surprise me. Love is the only above average starter on the roster and I don't expect him to return to his T'Wolves production. Nance might elevate his game to being a solid starter. JR Smith is a dumpster fire who I think will be even more unhinged. Clarkson is okay, Hood... is... iffy (and still unsigned I think).

http://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/cle/cleveland-cavaliers

I thought about delving deeper into how bad that roster is but I'll just let that link speak for itself. Good lord, that team is going to be BAD.

agreed.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think they could have gotten a return for Love that is worth what he now is to Cleveland. He's worth that money to them specifically, it's an overpay anywhere else. He might be worth a couple of mid rounders, maybe even a lottery pick, but it was rumored they had been shopping him before this. Chances are they didn't get a good offer.

Well said. Similar to how I read fans of other teams say Booker was overpaid and that he isn’t worth it blah blah but doesn’t matter because he’s worth every penny of his new contract to the Suns. As for Love, he should make for a decent pick and pop player for Sexton. Cavs are really high on Zizic and Osman as well and Love fits in well with both.

 

[Finito]

Funny fact

Vince Carter signs with Atlanta this offseason

Carter was drafted 3 months before Trae Young was born

Lol

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Funny fact

Vince Carter signs with Atlanta this offseason

Carter was drafted 3 months before Trae Young was born

Lol

How many teams has he played for? I wonder what the record is for most teams.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Most of the deals they have expire in 2 years, including JR Smith, Clarkson, and Tristan Thompson. When that happens they will have max space available to sign someone and it's easier to pitch a pairing with an All-Star like Love than without anyone. They're in the East, a team with a star + Kevin Love may be able to make a run. I think people are downplaying the rest of their roster too much also. It's not a great team by any means but it's full of players used to winning. The majority of the roster has been to the last couple of NBA Finals. They're not going there next year or the year after but they should be capable of getting swept in the 1st round by someone.

George Hill, JR Smith, Korver, Love, and Tristan Thompson with Nance, Clarkson, and Sexton coming in off the bench. It's not great but it's better than nothing. Everyone is advocating they bottom out entirely like the Suns and while that may help them, the improved lottery odds for teams that typically landed later in the lottery make it unnecessary for them to tank like the Suns or Sixers. They can fight for a playoff spot while replacing vets as they expire.

I agree with PH Cleveland will make the playoffs. Collin Sexton will be a player that wins.

 

[AzStevenCal]

How many teams has he played for? I wonder what the record is for most teams.

I don't know what it is but I'd wager Joe Smith and Jim Jackson are near the top of the list. Also, Ish Smith and Gerald Green are probably likely candidates to join the all-travel team before they retire. Green may already be there if you count his pro stops overseas.

Edit: It turns out it's searchable. Tony Massenburg, Chucky Brown, Jim Jackson and Joe Smith have each played for 12 teams.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I agree with PH Cleveland will make the playoffs. Collin Sexton will be a player that wins.

I don't know that they'll make the playoffs but it wouldn't surprise me at all. I have no feel for whether Lue can really coach but I'd wager someone like Kenny Atkinson could mold that collection of players into a playoff contender.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know what it is but I'd wager Joe Smith and Jim Jackson are near the top of the list. Also, Ish Smith and Gerald Green are probably likely candidates to join the all-travel team before they retire. Green may already be there if you count his pro stops overseas.

Edit: It turns out it's searchable. Tony Massenburg, Chucky Brown, Jim Jackson and Joe Smith have each played for 12 teams.

Man I would’ve guessed the record was higher than 12.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Man I would’ve guessed the record was higher than 12.

Ish Smith is currently at 10 different teams, and he's only 30.

 

[Hoop Head]

And this is why Houston's odds of winning a title this year have been decreased by adding Melo. He won't come off the bench until he's "ready to take that role".


https://bleacherreport.com/articles...e-off-bench-until-hes-ready-to-take-that-role

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Hoop Head]

Here is another reason Cleveland probably opted to lock Love in now. He left a lot of money on the table throughout the duration of that deal by signing it now, as is. Had he waited and became a free agent, he could have gotten $100 million more throughout that same period. The deal he signed is actually less than the max also. Who knows how much he could have got Cleveland to pay. Given the current extension, they seemed set on keeping him. Perhaps he couldn't have gotten the full difference if he signed later but it's likely he could have gotten more than he did if he waited. Here's a quick breakdown....

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More info on how he could have made much more, going into details.

https://cavsnation.com/cavs-news-kevin-love-sacrificed-101m-by-committing-to-the-cavs-this-summer/

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

And this is why Houston's odds of winning a title this year have been decreased by adding Melo. He won't come off the bench until he's "ready to take that role".


https://bleacherreport.com/articles...e-off-bench-until-hes-ready-to-take-that-role

You must be registered for see images attach

Ah yes, the ultimate team player!

 

[JCSunsfan]

And this is why Houston's odds of winning a title this year have been decreased by adding Melo. He won't come off the bench until he's "ready to take that role".


https://bleacherreport.com/articles...e-off-bench-until-hes-ready-to-take-that-role

You must be registered for see images attach

Why anyone trades for or signs this guy just dumbfounds me.