Suns Off-season Thread

[Proximo]

My gosh. This team is never going to win a title if we trade Ayton, don't get better and are pinning our hopes on stuff like this.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I hope this is not true.

Dario is a very flawed player, I would prefer he not be on the team at all.

 

[Covert Rain]

I hope this is not true.

Dario is a very flawed player, I would prefer he not be on the team at all.

That makes two of us. The Mavs just got better with a trade. All these trade scenarios are pointless if at the end of the day the Suns don't field a better team.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Suns at one point were rumored to be going after Gordon. I think at the time it was a huge missed opportunity.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Folster]

The Suns at one point were rumored to be going after Gordon. I think at the time it was a huge missed opportunity.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

No on Eric Gordon, at least for a first rounder. We need low cost talent infusion from the draft in the coming years. We can't repeat the same mistakes of SSOL or we will find ourselves in another decade long malaise.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

No on Eric Gordon, at least for a first rounder. We need low cost talent infusion from the draft in the coming years. We can't repeat the same mistakes of SSOL or we will find ourselves in another decade long malaise.

Man, going all in with Gordon/Ayton seems like the best chance we'll have to compete next year. I'm not sure how else you'd be able to add an effective 3rd creator, and Gordon checks a lot of boxes.

Yes, you're giving up another first, but it's highly unlikely a late first would contribute more than Gordon.

 

[Covert Rain]

No on Eric Gordon, at least for a first rounder. We need low cost talent infusion from the draft in the coming years. We can't repeat the same mistakes of SSOL or we will find ourselves in another decade long malaise.

At the time Gordon was thought to be the piece to shore up the guard slot for the "Chris Paul run". IMO, if we had Gordon it would have been a huge lift this year. 1st round picks outside the top 3 are overrated anyway. Giving up one likely wouldn't have impacted the future of the team and would have been well worth getting our hands on him could we have figured out a way to get our hands on him.

 

[GatorAZ]

No on Eric Gordon, at least for a first rounder. We need low cost talent infusion from the draft in the coming years. We can't repeat the same mistakes of SSOL or we will find ourselves in another decade long malaise.

What makes you think we’re likely to hit on picks in the 20’s? I’d be okay dealing picks in the next year or two but wouldn’t go beyond 2025 or anything.

 

[Finito]

The Suns at one point were rumored to be going after Gordon. I think at the time it was a huge missed opportunity.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

The time for Gordon was this season it was our best shot at a championship

 

[Folster]

Man, going all in with Gordon/Ayton seems like the best chance we'll have to compete next year. I'm not sure how else you'd be able to add an effective 3rd creator, and Gordon checks a lot of boxes.

Yes, you're giving up another first, but it's highly unlikely a late first would contribute more than Gordon.

We said that about Landry too. Silver lining is we would have to send out salary to match. So it wouldn't hurt us too much.

 

[Covert Rain]

We said that about Landry too. Silver lining is we would have to send out salary to match. So it wouldn't hurt us too much.

The Shamet move was considered nowhere near a move to get Gordon. I didn't see anybody compare. Shamet was more of an "I hope" move and a gamble. Gordon as stated above checked a bunch of boxes at the time. I don't think anybody would have doubted Gordon making an impact.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We said that about Landry too. Silver lining is we would have to send out salary to match. So it wouldn't hurt us too much.

The Landry thing still bugs me to no end...yeah, he's probably a great guy and teammate, but he definitely was not what we needed in terms of a combo like guard. Both Shamet/Payne being so bad really put us in a tough spot, and we are in desperate need of an effective combo guard.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We said that about Landry too. Silver lining is we would have to send out salary to match. So it wouldn't hurt us too much.

Not really. He wasn't on anyone's radar that I recall and when we got him, there were a few posters that were hopeful but just as many opposed to the acquisition. Gordon has always been a quality player, he just breaks down too often. If you can get him and keep him healthy he's good enough to start on an elite team yet willing to play his role off the bench.

 

[Folster]

Not really. He wasn't on anyone's radar that I recall and when we got him, there were a few posters that were hopeful but just as many opposed to the acquisition. Gordon has always been a quality player, he just breaks down too often. If you can get him and keep him healthy he's good enough to start on an elite team yet willing to play his role off the bench.

I should have been more specific in my comparison. We all said he would likely be better than any player we drafted in the 20s.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I should have been more specific in my comparison. We all said he would likely be better than any player we drafted in the 20s.

Yeah I think I remember some support for that idea. Although just guessing I'm sure some of us meant "better" for the short term (Chris Paul window) than any player we could draft in the 20s.

 

[Hoop Head]

The Shamet trade was good in a vacuum but once he was extended it seemed really questionable. He would have been fine or even great as a 5th guard in the rotation but he was paid top backup money in his extension and that showed the team was done improving the backcourt talenf.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Shamet trade was good in a vacuum but once he was extended it seemed really questionable. He would have been fine or even great as a 5th guard in the rotation but he was paid top backup money in his extension and that showed the team was done improving the backcourt talenf.

I hope the Nets still like Landry Shamet if the Suns have any chance at acquiring Durant.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Well, I was noticing that the perfectly simple and obvious way to handle the backup point guard situation is: don't trade Payne but let Holiday compete with him in preseason for his job. If Payne gets outcompeted, he gets demoted. The Suns' biggest roster error mistake was tolerating their weakness at backup point guard.

(Second biggest was wasting Jalen Smith. I think that if Ayton should happen to get traded to the Pacers, an obvious thing to do would be to take back Smith in return. ...Never mind, I just observed that Smith is a free agent.)

 

[95pro]

Well, I was noticing that the perfectly simple and obvious way to handle the backup point guard situation is: don't trade Payne but let Holiday compete with him in preseason for his job. If Payne gets outcompeted, he gets demoted. The Suns' biggest roster error mistake was tolerating their weakness at backup point guard.

(Second biggest was wasting Jalen Smith. I think that if Ayton should happen to get traded to the Pacers, an obvious thing to do would be to take back Smith in return. ...Never mind, I just observed that Smith is a free agent.)

What makes you think Monty will let them play for a position? His mind has been made up on some players already.

 

[Raindog]

What makes you think Monty will let them play for a position? His mind has been made up on some players already.

Yup... that's the big problem with Monty.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Since there is no Suns news at this time (or if there is, it remains the same), let's discuss a piece of Suns history. Is there anyone who disagrees when I opine, with some discomfort, that Shawn Marion was a better overall player than Amare Stoudemire?

I'm not big on having favorite players, but if I had any favorite player during the Steve Nash era, it would be Amare Stoudemire. This is because I believed in Stoudemire's potential that he claimed when he said (as a new draft selection) "I could be the new Charles Barkley." He was certainly athletically superior to Barkley in many ways: quicker, and much taller. So naturally, I supposed he might eventually be as good as Barkley or better.
And everything I ever heard about Stoudemire personally makes me think he's a great person and it would be a pleasure to know him. I repeatedly noted to myself that Amare never got in trouble a single time, never did anything to discredit himself or his team. Unlike Shawn Marion, who made a fool out of himself by whining about not getting enough respect (when he actually received respect in spades from every fan). So it makes me squirm to admit what I said above: Shawn Marion was a better overall player. Knowing the situation that forced Marion's trade, the terms he left on, is what makes me feel uncomfortable.

How could I have known that Stoudemire would never learn how to rebound well or play defense? In the 2005 WCF, the Spurs made Amare look ridiculous by averaging 37.5 points but somehow failing to help his team win. (And me: I felt foolish too for initially thinking a 37.5 PPG was necessarily impressive.) They ignored him, because they realized they could. Oh, don't take the easy route by blaming his limitations all on the later injuries: the career rebounding numbers are too embarrassingly low for that. Stoudemire lacked the intelligence to improve in ways other than scoring. He was to me just a great finisher and good teammate.

 

[somethingshesaid]

Yup... that's the big problem with Monty.

I am hesitant to assume Williams will keep that up, because it's not at all clear that he's as arrogant as Mike D'Antoni. Since everyone says Williams is a great person, I don't see him snottily grumbling "What, am I gonna play Aaron now?" the way D'Antoni dismissed one of his rookies on the bench. Maybe Williams will see the light before next season. If I'm right about him, it's just not that hard to put your backup point guard position up for grabs.

 

[Hoop Head]

Since there is no Suns news at this time (or if there is, it remains the same), let's discuss a piece of Suns history. Is there anyone who disagrees when I opine, with some discomfort, that Shawn Marion was a better overall player than Amare Stoudemire?

I'm not big on having favorite players, but if I had any favorite player during the Steve Nash era, it would be Amare Stoudemire. This is because I believed in Stoudemire's potential that he claimed when he said (as a new draft selection) "I could be the new Charles Barkley." He was certainly athletically superior to Barkley in many ways: quicker, and much taller. So naturally, I supposed he would eventually be as good as Barkley or better.
And everything I ever heard about Stoudemire personally makes me think he's a great person and it would be a pleasure to know him. I repeatedly noted to myself that Amare never got in trouble a single time, never did anything to discredit himself or his team. Unlike Shawn Marion, who made a fool out of himself by whining about not getting enough respect (when he actually received respect in spades from every fan). So it makes me squirm to admit what I said above: Shawn Marion was a better overall player.

How could I have known that Stoudemire would never learn how to rebound well or play defense? In the 2005 WCF, the Spurs made Amare look ridiculous by averaging 37.5 points but somehow failing to help his team win. (And me: I felt foolish too for thinking a 37.5 PPG was necessarily impressive.) They ignored him, because they realized they could. Oh, don't take the easy route by blaming his limitations all on the later injuries: the career rebounding numbers are too embarrassingly low for that. Stoudemire was to me just a great finisher and good teammate.

Marion had the better career but Amare was the better player.

Had injuries not hampered Amare, I'm positive he would have won an MVP at some point and the Suns likely win a championship but in the timeline we're all in, he still had a great career. He was unstoppable offensively, during both the regular season and playoffs. Marion was awful in the playoffs and could not be depended on offensively at all. He folded when the lights were brightest, Amare excelled. Of course we can talk about their defense but that's not a debate, Marion was better. I think he was slightly overrated on that end simply because he was the only Sun who played defense regularly other than Raja.

 

[Mainstreet]

Marion had the better career but Amare was the better player.

Had injuries not hampered Amare, I'm positive he would have won an MVP at some point and the Suns likely win a championship but in the timeline we're all in, he still had a great career. He was unstoppable offensively, during both the regular season and playoffs. Marion was awful in the playoffs and could not be depended on offensively at all. He folded when the lights were brightest, Amare excelled. Of course we can talk about their defense but that's not a debate, Marion was better. I think he was slightly overrated on that end simply because he was the only Sun who played defense regularly other than Raja.

Looking back, I think Marion took a lot of unfair criticism because he couldn't guard Dirk Dirk Nowitzki. There was a considerable height difference plus Dirk was a very good player.

Amare would have been one of the best players to ever wear a Suns uniform if he had stayed healthy even with his defensive deficiencies.

 

[Covert Rain]

Since there is no Suns news at this time (or if there is, it remains the same), let's discuss a piece of Suns history. Is there anyone who disagrees when I opine, with some discomfort, that Shawn Marion was a better overall player than Amare Stoudemire?

I'm not big on having favorite players, but if I had any favorite player during the Steve Nash era, it would be Amare Stoudemire. This is because I believed in Stoudemire's potential that he claimed when he said (as a new draft selection) "I could be the new Charles Barkley." He was certainly athletically superior to Barkley in many ways: quicker, and much taller. So naturally, I supposed he might eventually be as good as Barkley or better.
And everything I ever heard about Stoudemire personally makes me think he's a great person and it would be a pleasure to know him. I repeatedly noted to myself that Amare never got in trouble a single time, never did anything to discredit himself or his team. Unlike Shawn Marion, who made a fool out of himself by whining about not getting enough respect (when he actually received respect in spades from every fan). So it makes me squirm to admit what I said above: Shawn Marion was a better overall player. Knowing the situation that forced Marion's trade, the terms he left on, is what makes me feel uncomfortable.

How could I have known that Stoudemire would never learn how to rebound well or play defense? In the 2005 WCF, the Spurs made Amare look ridiculous by averaging 37.5 points but somehow failing to help his team win. (And me: I felt foolish too for initially thinking a 37.5 PPG was necessarily impressive.) They ignored him, because they realized they could. Oh, don't take the easy route by blaming his limitations all on the later injuries: the career rebounding numbers are too embarrassingly low for that. Stoudemire lacked the intelligence to improve in ways other than scoring. He was to me just a great finisher and good teammate.

Yes I disagree. Marion was a more well rounded player but definitely not the better player. Nobody would draft Marion and build a franchise around him like they did Amare. Nobody.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Marion had the better career but Amare was the better player.

Had injuries not hampered Amare, I'm positive he would have won an MVP at some point and the Suns likely win a championship but in the timeline we're all in, he still had a great career. He was unstoppable offensively, during both the regular season and playoffs. Marion was awful in the playoffs and could not be depended on offensively at all. He folded when the lights were brightest, Amare excelled. Of course we can talk about their defense but that's not a debate, Marion was better. I think he was slightly overrated on that end simply because he was the only Sun who played defense regularly other than Raja.

I think you're being overly harsh on Marion but otherwise, I agree with this post. Marion was far from horrible in the playoffs even though he did struggle against certain matchups. And usually those matchups included multiple quality bigs.