Suns @ Lakers Wednesday game thread 3-22-2023

Covert Rain

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Ayton was an RFA, totally different than trading for a player.

Every team in the league could have tried to put together a package for Durant. You're entirely ignoring the WHY when it comes to the Nets not getting offers.
You are missing the point. There were only a few teams that could absorb Ayton's contract at the time. Go back and check. We were tracking the list. That limited the market for Ayton regardless. The point being is that current salaries of teams and where they are determine the market at a given moment. That changes at the end of every season as teams decide their direction. You can't possibly know what the future market is going to look like for every team.
 

Phrazbit

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You are missing the point. There were only a few teams that could absorb Ayton's contract at the time. Go back and check. We were tracking the list. That limited the market for Ayton regardless. The point being is that current salaries of teams and where they are determine the market at a given moment. That changes at the end of every season as teams decide their direction. You can't possibly know what the future market is going to look like for every team.

Nah, I think you're missing the point on that one, there were few teams that could absorb Ayton because he was a restricted free agent. Only teams under the cap could make him an offer.

A totally different situation than Durant, literally, every single team in the league could have made some sort of offer for him.

The Nets didn't get offers because no reasonable team would offer a haul for an oft injured 34 year old who was demanding to go to one specific team.
 

Covert Rain

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Nah, I think you're missing the point on that one, there were few teams that could absorb Ayton because he was a restricted free agent. Only teams under the cap could make him an offer.

A totally different situation than Durant, literally, every single team in the league could have made some sort of offer for him.

The Nets didn't get offers because no reasonable team would offer a haul for an oft injured 34 year old who was demanding to go to one specific team.
You misunderstood the point. I wasn't comparing them based on their contract status. My point was that at any given time if you want to sign a UFA, trade for an RFA or make a move for a player on contract the market is dictated by the teams that can afford to absorb said contract. You have no idea what that would look like for every team in the offseason.
 

Phrazbit

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You misunderstood the point. I wasn't comparing them based on their contract status. My point was that at any given time if you want to sign a UFA, trade for an RFA or make a move for a player on contract the market is dictated by the teams that can afford to absorb said contract. You have no idea what that would look like for every team in the offseason.

I get that... and it has nothing to do with Durant.

Literally, every team in the league had the flexibility to, at least, make an offer for Durant.
 

Covert Rain

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I get that... and it has nothing to do with Durant.

Literally, every team in the league had the flexibility to, at least, make an offer for Durant.
Uhhh what? Not even sure what that means. Not every team has the financial flexibility, draft assets or contracts that could line up. That doesn't even include the financial means to pay the luxury tax should that come into play.

Literally that's not true.
 

Phrazbit

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Uhhh what?

I don't know where the disconnect is.

Yes, every single team in the league could have made an offer for Durant. Everyone. The Nets didn't get offers because no reasonable team was going give up that kind of haul for a player with his red flags.

It was nothing like Ayton's situation, where only teams with 30+ million in free cap room could make him an offer.
 

Covert Rain

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I don't know where the disconnect is.

Yes, every single team in the league could have made an offer for Durant. Everyone. The Nets didn't get offers because no reasonable team was going give up that kind of haul for a player with his red flags.

It was nothing like Ayton's situation, where only teams with 30+ million in free cap room could make him an offer.
You would have to make some ludicrous assumption every team is the same boat with draft capital, salary restrictions, wanting to hold onto their good players or even possibly was willing to pay the luxury tax.

They could all technically offer total crap. Doesn't make it feasible, plausible or a realistic market scenario.

In reality there are only a hand full of teams that can make major deals each season based on their team direction and available salary.
 

AzStevenCal

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The Suns likely wouldn't consider it for the duration of his contract or at least until the end of next season. I wouldn't expect him to bring back what we gave up by then.
Sorry. I had deleted my post but you responded too quickly apparently. Anyway, I thought I was pushing too hard so I removed it.
 

Phrazbit

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You would have to make some ludicrous assumption every team is the same boat with draft capital, salary restrictions, wanting to hold onto their good players or even possibly was willing to pay the luxury tax.

They could all technically offer total crap. Doesn't make it feasible, plausible or a realistic market scenario.

That IS the market though. The entire league had the option to make whatever their best offer could have been.

The Nets didn't get a "haul" offer last year, there is no reason to think the market was going to improve when all the reasons they didn't get a good offer last year went even further against the Nets favor.

It was an insane and possibly ruinous overpay.
 

Covert Rain

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That IS the market though. The entire league had the option to make whatever their best offer could have been.

The Nets didn't get a "haul" offer last year, there is no reason to think the market was going to improve when all the reasons they didn't get a good offer last year went even further against the Nets favor.

It was an insane and possibly ruinous overpay.
No, there is theorectical market and there is a feasible market.
 

Phrazbit

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No, there is theorectical market and there is a feasible market.

I'm in total agreement.

And the feasable market for Durant, IMO, was only going to get worse and worse and we were the only team that were willing to give them a "haul"... and it was only after Ishbia decided to force the issue. Last summer that was the reality of the market and there is no compelling reason for it to have changed.
 

Covert Rain

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We really need Durant to get back... and not to immediately get hurt again.

I imagine the discourse will improve and I will hate the trade less.
No doubt. You guys are good people. We don't have to agree for that to be true.
 

Sparky16

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I hope you're wrong, because the team is only getting older and the depth will likely be worse next year.

Lee, Okogie, Craig... basically our best depth guys, all will be free agents, we have bird rights on none of them.
Thats not good depth and easily replaced. Craig is a shell of himselft even 2 years ago, Lee's ability to hit 3's is dminished by his awful defense. Okogie can only hit shots in 1 out of 5 games it seems
 

nashman

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They could have held out easily until the season was over. Teams start tearing things apart, shedding salary and making other moves. It could have been a totally different market. Especially, for teams in the playoffs that felt maybe they are one guy away.
Maybe, but then your competing with everyone interested and could be bidding war as well…
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Understandable but Bridges was the centerpiece to make the trade happen period, that’s who they wanted.
Right. We can’t discuss keeping bridges outta the KD trade bc without bridges as the centerpiece of the trade there is NO trade. I don’t get why this is difficult to comprehend.
 

nashman

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Maybe, maybe not. When stars demand out they tend to be traded for a pittance of their actual value, and KD's "real value" is murky as is. They were in a terrible spot, with yet another star demanding out. He was demanding to come here, he is 34 and he was injured.

I don't see anyway they could sit on him. Their position was only getting worse and he was only going to lose value.
Trade deadline! And the Suns wanted a chance to compete THIS year not next when Paul is even older. The trade had to be made it was a no brainer imo even though I hated losing Bridges it’s still worth it!
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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That has no bearing on the market at the end of this season. You have no idea what teams are wiling to do. Espeically, if they fall short in the playoffs. Look at the Mavs. Teams get desperate. Teams shed salary and are starved for expiring contracts. There are so many scenarios that could have played into the Nets favor.
Exactly. Only one team wins it all each year. Come the offseason there may have been more competition from this seasons contenders that fell short.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Last summer the market for that kind of deal didn't exist for the Nets, the idea that with KD getting more disgruntled, more injured and older was going to improve the market, I think, spits in the face of reality.
More desperate also rans would’ve upped the competition for him. Maybe the Celtics seriously consider bolstered package if they’ve got two close calls but no cigar.
 

Phrazbit

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Right. We can’t discuss keeping bridges outta the KD trade bc without bridges as the centerpiece of the trade there is NO trade. I don’t get why this is difficult to comprehend.

Only because we caved. The Nets didn't have a lot of alternatives. We can go in circles but Cam, + filler + picks is a better offer than anything they had and IMO, they absolutely had to move him.
Trade deadline! And the Suns wanted a chance to compete THIS year not next when Paul is even older. The trade had to be made it was a no brainer imo even though I hated losing Bridges it’s still worth it!

I know there was the trade deadline, and they were a motivated seller.

I keep saying it and I've yet to hear a reasonable explanation:

The Nets have said they would have made the same deal in the summer... we refused. Why then, months later would we give them exactly what they want when their position had become deeply imperiled? Their franchise was imploding, Durant demanded out (again), Durant was hurt (again).

We caved. Period.
 

Phrazbit

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More desperate also rans would’ve upped the competition for him. Maybe the Celtics seriously consider bolstered package if they’ve got two close calls but no cigar.

Or maybe KD sits out the season injured and, again, demands to only go to Phoenix. That seemed pretty likely... and it would have murdered the market for him.

The market for KD sucked last summer, I don't see the mental gymnastics to think that another year older and another year of injuries that suddenly teams who were hesitant before would now dive in head first.
 

nashman

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Only because we caved. The Nets didn't have a lot of alternatives. We can go in circles but Cam, + filler + picks is a better offer than anything they had and IMO, they absolutely had to move him.


I know there was the trade deadline, and they were a motivated seller.

I keep saying it and I've yet to hear a reasonable explanation:

The Nets have said they would have made the same deal in the summer... we refused. Why then, months later would we give them exactly what they want when their position had become deeply imperiled? Their franchise was imploding, Durant demanded out (again), Durant was hurt (again).

We caved. Period.
Again it was obvious we weren’t gonna compete for anything this year with the current squad at the time. They took a swing and the result is yet to be seen because of bad luck, we saw a 3 game sample that showed this team will be tough to beat if both Book and Durant on the floor, that would have NEVER been the case with Bridges and Book period! Let’s see how it all plays out no one is happy with what we gave up but you don’t get superstars by trading nothing of value!
 
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