Suns @ Lakers Tuesday game thread, 12-5-2023 - West Quarterfinal, In-Season Tournament

Cheesebeef

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I think we got hosed pretty much all night. The refs allowed the Lakers to routinely beat us up while calling lesser contact against our guys. But we play soft and every now and then you run into refs who call the game 80's style which plays right into the Lakers. And that's all that happened IMO. I don't believe for a second there was a conspiracy to keep us out or a conspiracy to put the Lakers in.

Honestly I didn't think it was much different from the reffing we typically see when we face Lebron at his place and we had more than enough chances to overcome the referee style. And if we get everyone healthy and start thinking about winning it all, we're going to face that same situation many times.
This.
 
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Mainstreet

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The Lakers put up 27 more shots than the Suns and had 13 more offensive rebounds. It's hard to win with those stats.

Part of that, Nurkic had a below average game with only 3 points and was 1-4 from the FT line.

The Suns looked small against the Lakers and it didn't help they were abused inside. If the Suns ever needed a third center, it's now.

Devin Booker having an off game certainly didn't help.
 

Proximo

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The Lakers put up 27 more shots than the Suns and had 13 more offensive rebounds. It's hard to win with those stats.

Part of that, Nurkic had a below average game with only 3 points and was 1-4 from the FT line.

The Suns looked small against the Lakers and it didn't help they were abused inside. If the Suns ever needed a third center, it's now.

Devin Booker having an off game certainly didn't help.
Well a third center is needed but I'm not sure it would have mattered last night because I doubt we would have one good enough to get in the game over the first two.

Both Eubanks and Nurk were HORRIBLE last night.

I have to blame the coaching at least somewhat. There is no way the Lakers should be able to so completely shut down our offense to where we are getting shot clock violations and bad shots.

The role player guys are not enough a part of the offense, we are force feeding it to KD and Book the whole game, they are getting doubled constantly and somehow we have not been able to take advantage of that.
 

Proximo

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What we missed last night was a Jae type of guy. When Nurk got sack checked, Book head pulled down, Book and KD tackles, someone to not back down from the opponents and refs.
Yeah fine, what I want more though is someone to go get rebounds. I am sick of the offensive rebounds for 3's - It is happening 2-3 times a game after we have stopped the other team.
 

Phrazbit

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What we missed last night was a Jae type of guy. When Nurk got sack checked, Book head pulled down, Book and KD tackles, someone to not back down from the opponents and refs.

Some here thought that Grayson would be our hard nosed, defensive, get in people's faces guy, even though he never has been.
 

Proximo

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Also Suns are not putting up enough 3's. That is one of our team strengths and we are not using it to our full advantage.

We are being run off the 3pt line way to easily, sick of Grayson Allen trying to drive where he comparatively sucks, instead of just scooting to the side and launching a three.
 

Raindog

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I'm not so inclined to believe there is a conspiracy to favor one specific team by the league itself as much as I often wonder whether referees are benefitting monetarily from tilting the odds towards one team or another and the NBA deliberately turns a blind eye because they know investigating and exposing it will cost the league ENORMOUSLY both in terms of legitimacy and economics. Besides the fact that refs controlling the outcome does in fact often coincidentally benefit marketing for the league... as long as it's not too blatantly obvious.

I mean surely Tim Donaghy is the only official in the entirety of sports history who profited illicitly from abusing his position, right? Right?
 

Proximo

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I'm not so inclined to believe there is a conspiracy to favor one specific team by the league itself as much as I often wonder whether referees are benefitting monetarily from tilting the odds towards one team or another and the NBA deliberately turns a blind eye because they know investigating and exposing it will cost the league ENORMOUSLY both in terms of legitimacy and economics. Besides the fact that refs controlling the outcome does in fact often coincidentally benefit marketing for the league... as long as it's not too blatantly obvious.

I mean surely Tim Donaghy is the only official in the entirety of sports history who profited illicitly from abusing his position, right? Right?
It did seem like the refs favored the Lakers - and it's not a surprise really. The Lakers are the most popular team and they probably would love them to win the tournament.

I really don't give a damn though. The Suns should have still easily won that game and using the Refs as an excuse is lame. They made at most 8-10 pts of a difference, and the Suns should still win easily if they play to their capabilities which they most certainly did not.
 

Cheesebeef

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2 minute report is out

Says timeout call was correct - but says there was 3 missed calls Grayson Allen, Nurk and Durant all should have been called for fouls that they weren't

What a freaking joke.

LOL… okay, now THAT is funny.
 

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2 minute report is out

Says timeout call was correct - but says there was 3 missed calls Grayson Allen, Nurk and Durant all should have been called for fouls that they weren't

What a freaking joke.

Yeah somehow Reeve's regained possession by pinning the ball to his leg and called timeout. Like WTF? I'm not surprised they're backing their own BS but to make such a ridiculous claim to do so is just too much.
 
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Mainstreet

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Yeah somehow Reeve's regained possession by pinning the ball to his leg and called timeout. Like WTF? I'm not surprised they're backing their own BS but to make such a ridiculous claim to do so is just too much.

Lebron is the one who called timeout, not Reaves, which makes it all the more absurd.
 
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Mainstreet

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Well a third center is needed but I'm not sure it would have mattered last night because I doubt we would have one good enough to get in the game over the first two.

Both Eubanks and Nurk were HORRIBLE last night.

I have to blame the coaching at least somewhat. There is no way the Lakers should be able to so completely shut down our offense to where we are getting shot clock violations and bad shots.

The role player guys are not enough a part of the offense, we are force feeding it to KD and Book the whole game, they are getting doubled constantly and somehow we have not been able to take advantage of that.

Even though Nurkic had a relatively bad game, the Suns were most vulnerable when he was out of the lineup. He has the bulk the Suns need inside against bigger teams.

Eubanks was a nice addition for the Suns. It's a plus, he can also play PF to give the Suns more size against bigger teams. In most games he is a center, however, last night the Suns could have used him at power forward.

This is where the Suns could have really used a third center when Nurkic went to the bench. At times, the Lakers were playing volleyball off the offensive glass.
 

Dback Jon

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2 minute report is out

Says timeout call was correct - but says there was 3 missed calls Grayson Allen, Nurk and Durant all should have been called for fouls that they weren't

What a freaking joke.
That is a freaking joke.

And of course, if they reviewed the game tape and we’re honest, they would say that there were about 30 fouls that should’ve been called against the Lakers, including a number of flagrant fouls
 

clyde2tw

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We lost due to lack of proper offensive play sets, which together with lack of good true PG led to many TOs. We still have not found a way to deal with body-glueing, borderline-foul defense to Book and KD, and with double teamings.

I thought it's old playbook to set backdoor screens etc. as we used to see with the likes of Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, and Stockton. Free them this way to get better operation room for our big 3, and other hot-hands like Grayson in this game can also use it. As a byproduct, using Okogie/Little/KBD as the screener avoid aways parking them on the 3pt line waiting big-3 create one-on-one, which playoff-intensity defense would make it hard like Lakers did.

Vogel was wise not to play Yuta due to lack of D, but he had no choice but playing Grayson in the 4th who again got abused by LBJ, as in previous 2 games. JO/Little/KBD would have helped there and with rebounding. And JO covered Reaves very well when they met on court.
Also, on D we still are not rotating smart and quick enough.

PS: Book is really not a good PG yet, far from Harden level. His vision for easy passes is often limited that leads to easy TOs.
 
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clyde2tw

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That is a freaking joke.

And of course, if they reviewed the game tape and we’re honest, they would say that there were about 30 fouls that should’ve been called against the Lakers, including a number of flagrant fouls
Exactly! Very hypocratic.
These mentioned no-calls are in-line with previous ones in favor of Lakers, in the same game. Nurk's touching AD's hand on putback was normal contact fighting for rebounds. In the split second, AD didn't control the ball yet, similar to Reaves temporarily having the ball under his arm while it was loose before and after under pressure. It's a farce to call it under possession and allow the timeout call by LBJ far away. But it's no excuse for our bad game.
 

Yuma

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1. Turnovers
2. Rebounding
3. Coaching

In that order.
Turnovers 100% There's a quote by KD after the game where he recognizes how all the turn overs cost us the game in his opinion. I really think we cut those in half, we win that game, even with them having all those offensive rebounds. They took 30 more shots than the Suns while shooting something like 39% for the game.
 

taz02

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Officiating was bad, but from what I saw of the game the better team won. This was the first real test for the playoffs, and they failed.

The suns are week upfront and have no PG. They are built to outscore teams with three elite scorers. All three will need to be healthy for the final ½ of the season or its going to be a short playoff run.

Booker also needs to step up in big games:

In 4 career elimination games- 15.75ppg, 31.5%, 4.75 rebounds, and 5.25 assists with 4.75 turnovers.
This season- 27.30ppg, 48.5%, 6.3 rebounds, and 8.2 assists with 3.3 turnovers
 

Peter Sheldon

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Turnovers 100% There's a quote by KD after the game where he recognizes how all the turn overs cost us the game in his opinion. I really think we cut those in half, we win that game, even with them having all those offensive rebounds. They took 30 more shots than the Suns while shooting something like 39% for the game.
Booker turnovers are bad, but KD turnovers are cringe-worthy. He does it a lot in the 4th quarter and it's like he gets scared and makes a horrendously bad pass straight to the other team which leads to an instant layup. Yuta does this as well. 4 point turnaround when we can least afford it. It's like our players are frozen and don't realize one of our players is in trouble, double-teamed and they refuse to run over into open space to receive a pass and make it easier for our double-teamed player. See it every game. We have no 4th quarter player motion.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Booker turnovers are bad, but KD turnovers are cringe-worthy. He does it a lot in the 4th quarter and it's like he gets scared and makes a horrendously bad pass straight to the other team which leads to an instant layup. Yuta does this as well. 4 point turnaround when we can least afford it. It's like our players are frozen and don't realize one of our players is in trouble, double-teamed and they refuse to run over into open space to receive a pass and make it easier for our double-teamed player. See it every game. We have no 4th quarter player motion.
To me it appears like we have no sets designed to attack a double team. It’s insane. Book/kd should have first, second and third reads and should be able to triage those three options quickly based on where the double is coming from. Our guys hold and hold and hold the ball looking for someone to pass to. It’s insane to me. The other four guys should have four spread areas to run to making it impossible to cover all with 3 guys. Within 1-3 passes you should get a wide open shot. And this is why playing okogie is difficult in these scenarios. If one of our centers is in court you want them occupying the basket-adjacent area and the other three at the 3 point line. Teams will just cover the center and the other two players and leav okogie wide open. Sure you get the book/kd guy not being doubled in an advantageous one-on-one, but it’s not always so easy to get the ball to the exact player you want. So the other guys have to be able to make the defense pay for the double.
 

Devilmaycare

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I was starting to get back into basketball a little bit. It's always been my least favorite of the big 4. This game is making me ask why. The NBA is still a joke with this level of refs and the league response. I'm probably back to "wake me up when we're in the conference finals." There's enough other stress triggers in my life.
 

Peter Sheldon

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Immediate sign of a rigged game is to blow ticky tack fouls on Suns big man. This game was rigged. The NBA is a joke.
Yeah, I've seen this so many times. Nurk gets plowed into twice by AD while Nurk backing up or standing straight with hands up. No charge. Two quick fouls. Our best big has to sit. Rinse and repeat. Refs instantly give Lake show a huge lift in winning the game. I knew the fix was in a few minutes into the game. If refs had called AD just once on a charge, it would have changed the whole dynamic of the game. Yet with all the stupidity Suns displayed with TOs, with all the hacking Lakers got away with, with all the ticky tack calls against the Suns, with Book being ice cold, with Suns lack of rebounding, they were still within 3 at the end. Pretty hard to believe. Lakers are really not a very good team in a fairly called game IMHO.
 

95pro

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Immediate sign of a rigged game is to blow ticky tack fouls on Suns big man. This game was rigged. The NBA is a joke.

The NBA would be a dumpster if anyone found out they were rigging games.

BUT it could be plausible for a ref or group of refs to be in some point shaving.
 
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