Suns @ Jazz Friday game thread, 11-17-2023 - In-Season Tournament Game #2

nashman

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I'm more upset about losing to the Spurs twice at home, who have now lost 7 games in a row afterward.
Happens people need to let that garbage go, all teams lose games to hot shooting teams! This team is new and tying to find its identity, there will be bumps in the road!
 

GatorAZ

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Grayson is shooting 50% from 3 so far this season. Idk his catch & shoot 3pt numbers but they have to be off the charts.
 

95pro

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Grayson is shooting 50% from 3 so far this season. Idk his catch & shoot 3pt numbers but they have to be off the charts.

And that’s his best role. When we were short handed he was asked to create and he pressed too much. Now with Book back he can focus on shooting and have more energy on defense. Also with the ball out of his hands the turnovers should be minimized.
 
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Mainstreet

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Grayson is shooting 50% from 3 so far this season. Idk his catch & shoot 3pt numbers but they have to be off the charts.

Allen can't seem to hit that floater coming down the lane. It leaves me wondering about his arm length.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I’ve about had it with Vogel. If he can’t bring a defensive acumen then what’s he here for?
I think his defense has always been largely predicated on having a rim protector as a base. He doesn’t have one of those here. So his construct may not work well. That and we are only 12 games into a season where most of these players are new to the system and new to one and other. A defensive system needs cohesion. Might be early to expect that. Just some thoughts as to why things might be as they are at present. Could be way off and the system stinks or the players are just bad defenders (I think Eric Gordon falls into the latter camp).
 

CardsSunsDbacks

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I think his defense has always been largely predicated on having a rim protector as a base. He doesn’t have one of those here. So his construct may not work well. That and we are only 12 games into a season where most of these players are new to the system and new to one and other. A defensive system needs cohesion. Might be early to expect that. Just some thoughts as to why things might be as they are at present. Could be way off and the system stinks or the players are just bad defenders (I think Eric Gordon falls into the latter camp).
I think cohesion is far and away the biggest issue at the moment. Just look at the amount of times two players start running to the same assignment. Some of it is probably communication, but that also comes with cohesion. All it takes at this level to get beat is as little as a slight hesitation of where to be and next thing you know the other team has a layup or wide open 3.
 

Dr. Jones

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Easy Money baby!


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BirdGangThing

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I believe KD will be averaging over 31 pts after tonight's game - current list of top scorers will need to be updated

1. Joel Embiid / PHI 31.9

2. Stephen Curry / GSW 30.7

3. Luka Doncic / DAL 30.7

4. Washed Up / PHX 30.1

5. Nikola Jokic / DEN 30.0
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1982baskets

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The thing about defense is you need a high level of dedication from a group of high motor defensive players. This team has a few like but they aren't good enough on offense to be played heavy minutes. For the schemes Vogel runs you need players that can go all out on defense. This team doesn't seem to have enough of those players.

On paper, Grayson Allen/Goodwin/Bates-Diop, they give you some considerable defense. I think longterm Vogel should begin to rely on them as the core around KD/Book. Our closing lineups have been awful. This is an area where we need to figure out who are the 3 guys next to KD/Book that can get it done.

Vogel's defensive schemes win championships, or the very least give you a championship level defense. The issue is that I don't think the team has the right players yet to get that defense. Vogel needs more players with grit like Allen, Goodwin, Bates-Diop but then he has to also be able to have a lineup on offense that is respectable around KD/Book such that KD/Book are not allowed to be doubled easily.

This is in part why I don't really like the Beal trade that much. I prefer the Ayton trade, it gave them some useful players that fit. The Beal trade only helps us if we first have the right balance on defense with enough depth. Then having a star third option like that would put you over the top.
 

Hoop Head

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The thing about defense is you need a high level of dedication from a group of high motor defensive players. This team has a few like but they aren't good enough on offense to be played heavy minutes. For the schemes Vogel runs you need players that can go all out on defense. This team doesn't seem to have enough of those players.

On paper, Grayson Allen/Goodwin/Bates-Diop, they give you some considerable defense. I think longterm Vogel should begin to rely on them as the core around KD/Book. Our closing lineups have been awful. This is an area where we need to figure out who are the 3 guys next to KD/Book that can get it done.

Vogel's defensive schemes win championships, or the very least give you a championship level defense. The issue is that I don't think the team has the right players yet to get that defense. Vogel needs more players with grit like Allen, Goodwin, Bates-Diop but then he has to also be able to have a lineup on offense that is respectable around KD/Book such that KD/Book are not allowed to be doubled easily.

This is in part why I don't really like the Beal trade that much. I prefer the Ayton trade, it gave them some useful players that fit. The Beal trade only helps us if we first have the right balance on defense with enough depth. Then having a star third option like that would put you over the top.

I agree for the most part. Mainly wanted to welcome you to the board! Great to see a new poster. I don't know if you were a lurker but this is a good community to talk basketball on a deeper level than some other communities like Reddit, Facebook, or Twitter. I hope you stick around and continue sharing your thoughts as you seem to have a solid understanding of the league and game.
 

1982baskets

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And still, Devin Booker is the best player on this team. Even in this game. Not trying to shade your Durant enthusiasm.
I think we are fortunate that after investing so much into Kevin Durant, he is at this age still showing he is an elite player. There were real questions after the Warriors win on opening night whether he was still any good. Last season he came in, got hurt, wasn't the same. Now he looks like a top 10 player, and definitely a top 5 scorer in the league. You have arguably two top 10 scorers/offense players in the league on the same team at the same time. Historically when this happens, good things ensue. Waste of time to care who should be the option 1 or 2. It's all about putting both of them into the best spot. So far we seem to be doing that.
 
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