Suns 2024-2025 Season Discussions

[Hoop Head]

DeMarcus Cousins Came Out Of Nowhere To Claim The Phoenix Suns Got Into Multiple Fistfights In Their Locker Room This Season

I had to check a good 4-5 times to make sure this wasn't a Centel post. There's something hilarious about the Suns getting into a fistfight in their own locker room, especially when you look at that r...

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I believe it. Top suspects, in my opinion, are Nurkic, Beal, KD, and Book. I believe something happened with Nurk for sure. He's sort of alone at the top of the list while the other 3 are sort of all 3 on the same tier below him. The way Beal, Durant, and Book carried themselves in the second half of the season seemed deeper than being upset over the record. The silence from Book and Beal around KD being the leagues #1 trade target is also telling. No one is standing up for their teammates, at all.

 

[Raindog]

If the Suns got into multiple fistfights in the locker room, they should have saved the effort for the court.

Yeah, I'm skeptical anyone got in a fistfight in the Suns lockerroom. That would A) imply someone cared enough about something to get worked up, and B) would require more energy than anyone showed all season.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yeah, I'm skeptical anyone got in a fistfight in the Suns lockerroom. That would A) imply someone cared enough about something to get worked up, and B) would require more energy than anyone showed all season.

It would also imply an NBA player can throw a real punch.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, I'm skeptical anyone got in a fistfight in the Suns lockerroom. That would A) imply someone cared enough about something to get worked up, and B) would require more energy than anyone showed all season.

It would also imply an NBA player can throw a real punch.

It looks like Kevin Durant shuts this talk down.

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[Hoop Head]

It looks like Kevin Durant shuts this talk down.

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I don't put much stock in what KD says. I believe there was a scuffle of sorts, which in reality makes KD right and Cousins depending on how you interpret what they said.

Heated argument that probably led to some pushing with others getting in between to settle things down.

 

[Proximo]

I believe it. Top suspects, in my opinion, are Nurkic, Beal, KD, and Book. I believe something happened with Nurk for sure. He's sort of alone at the top of the list while the other 3 are sort of all 3 on the same tier below him. The way Beal, Durant, and Book carried themselves in the second half of the season seemed deeper than being upset over the record. The silence from Book and Beal around KD being the leagues #1 trade target is also telling. No one is standing up for their teammates, at all.

I don't. You really think this wouldn't leak out during the season? Use some common sense. There are dozens of people than can hear what is going on in the locker room beyond the coaches and players - and even they would likely leak something like this.

 

[Proximo]

I don't put much stock in what KD says. I believe there was a scuffle of sorts, which in reality makes KD right and Cousins depending on how you interpret what they said.

Heated argument that probably led to some pushing with others getting in between to settle things down.

A couple of pushes is a heck of a lot different than fistfights.

 

[Proximo]

I don't put much stock in what KD says. I believe there was a scuffle of sorts, which in reality makes KD right and Cousins depending on how you interpret what they said.

Heated argument that probably led to some pushing with others getting in between to settle things down.

I really don't think KD would lie about this. He doesn't have any incentive too, he is about to leave, and quite frankly he would like an excuse for how bad the team was last year.

 

[Proximo]

Yeah, I'm skeptical anyone got in a fistfight in the Suns lockerroom. That would A) imply someone cared enough about something to get worked up, and B) would require more energy than anyone showed all season.

This is also a good point, for a team that is supposedly fighting behind the scenes they showed zero sense of any fight on the court - with the opposition or each other. They generally displayed the attitude of not caring about anything most nights.

 

[Chaplin]

So Demarcus Cousins is a "source"? Really?

That's like saying Dan Marino says that in the QB Room, the Cardinals watched Frozen 1 & 2 instead of game film.

 

[Hoop Head]

A couple of pushes is a heck of a lot different than fistfights.

True but just saying "fight" could mean a ton of things. I think it got physical but not that serious.

I've been in locker rooms like that. Once the game of telephone begins and it gets out the story grows and eventually someone says a heated argument where guys are standing up in each other's face turns into "fistfight". It's an exaggeration, for sure, but there was still a serious conflict.

Look at reporting and conjecture surrounding what Sophie Cunningham was involved in recently. She barely tangled with another WNBA player and there are people saying she clocked someone online within an hour of that happening.

 

[BirdGangThing]

idk how much truth there is to it - but it did seem like they were keeping nurk and oso apart at one point - could also explain some of the banishments like morris and others but who knows - far as kd being traded - it's already a forgone conclusion so it would be both stupid and pointless for book to try and stop it or "speak up" for kd - lol - and im the one who smokes all the weed - oh man

 

[Superbone]

I don't put much stock in what KD says. I believe there was a scuffle of sorts, which in reality makes KD right and Cousins depending on how you interpret what they said.

Heated argument that probably led to some pushing with others getting in between to settle things down.

But you do from Boogie Cousins from overseas?

 

[Hoop Head]

But you do from Boogie Cousins from overseas?

He's saying something more believable to me based on the body language and demeanors I saw over the course of the season from the Suns. I already suspected something like that happened.

 

[Mainstreet]

If there were any truth to the "fight" rumor it could be a reason why the Suns traded Nurkic.

 

[Proximo]

So Boogie is now saying his source is a Suns player. My bet is it is Nurkic - and probably a lie.

 

[Hoop Head]

So Boogie is now saying his source is a Suns player. My bet is it is Nurkic - and probably a lie.

Boogie is friends with Draymond and the beef still exists with Draymond and Nurk.

I doubt it's Nurkic who is the source.

 

[leclerc]

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Check out their career stat lines.

What is WS?

 

[Yuma]

What is WS?

This is probably not going to help explain it, because IDK what it means. LOL

"Win Share is a measure that is assigned to players based on their offense, defense, and playing time. WS/48 is win shares per 48 minutes and invented by Justin Kubatko who explains: “A win share is worth one-third of a team win. If a team wins 60 games, there are 180 ‘Win Shares’ to distribute among the players.”

Also:

III. Crediting Offensive Win Shares to Players​

A. 1977-78 to present NBA​

Offensive Win Shares are credited to players based on Dean Oliver's points produced and offensive possessions. The formulas are quite detailed, so I would point you to Oliver's book Basketball on Paper for complete details. The process for crediting Offensive Win Shares is outlined below (using LeBron James of the 2008-09 Cleveland Cavaliers as an example):

1. Calculate points produced for each player. In 2008-09, James had an estimated 2345.9 points produced.
2. Calculate offensive possessions for each player. James had an estimated 1928.1 offensive possessions in 2008-09.
3. Calculate marginal offense for each player. Marginal offense is equal to (points produced) - 0.92 * (league points per possession) * (offensive possessions). For James this is 2345.9 - 0.92 * 1.083 * 1928.1 = 424.8. Note that this formula may produce a negative result for some players.
4. Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)). For the 2008-09 Cavaliers this is 0.32 * 100.0 * (88.7 / 91.7) = 30.95.
5. Credit Offensive Win Shares to the players. Offensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal offense) / (marginal points per win). James gets credit for 424.8 / 30.95 = 13.73 Offensive Win Shares.

B. 1973-74 to 1976-77 NBA​

The NBA did not track player turnovers until the 1977-78 season, and player turnovers are needed to calculate player possessions. However, the NBA did track turnovers at the team level from 1973-74 to 1976-77. Since player turnovers are the only thing holding us back from using the method outlined above, I have chosen to estimate player turnovers for this time period. Player turnovers are estimated as follows (using Kareem Abdul-Jabbar of the 1976-77 Los Angeles Lakers as an example):

1. Obtain an initial estimate of the player's turnovers. To do this use the following formula: -0.0005075172 * (minutes played) * (player age)
   - 0.0873982755 * (field goals)
   + 0.0925506598 * (field goal attempts)
   + 0.1566322510 * (free throw attempts)
   + 0.0449241773 * (total rebounds)
   + 0.2321637159 * (assists)
   + 0.2040169400 * (personal fouls)
   
   Note that if this number is less than zero, then it should be rounded up to zero. Plugging Abdul-Jabbar's statistics into the formula above we get an estimate of 280.316 turnovers.
2. Find the sum of estimated turnovers for the players on the given team. The sum for the players on the 1976-77 Lakers is 1448.057.
3. Calculate the player's share of this total. Abdul-Jabbar's share of the team total is 280.316 / 1448.057 = 0.194.
4. Multiply the team's turnovers (adjusted for team turnovers) by the player's share. As mentioned, the NBA tracked turnovers at the team level in these seasons. However, the team totals include team turnovers (i.e., turnovers that are not attributed to an individual player). Thus, we multiply the team's turnovers by 0.985, then multiply this adjusted figure by the player's share. For Abdul-Jabbar this is 1538 * 0.985 * 0.194 = 293.9, which we round up to 294.

Now that we have this estimate, the method above is used to complete the calculation of Offensive Win Shares.

Furthermore:

IV. Crediting Defensive Win Shares to Players​

A. 1973-74 to present NBA​

Crediting Defensive Win Shares to players is based on Dean Oliver's Defensive Rating. Defensive Rating is an estimate of the player's points allowed per 100 defensive possessions (please see Oliver's book for further details). Here is a description of the process (once again using LeBron James in 2008-09 as an example):

1. Calculate the Defensive Rating for each player. James's Defensive Rating in 2008-09 was 99.1.
2. Calculate marginal defense for each player. Marginal defense is equal to (player minutes played / team minutes played) * (team defensive possessions) * (1.08 * (league points per possession) - ((Defensive Rating) / 100)). For James this is (3054 / 19780) * 7341 * ((1.08 * 1.083) - (99.1 / 100)) = 202.5. Note that this formula may produce a negative result for some players.
3. Calculate marginal points per win. Marginal points per win reduces to 0.32 * (league points per game) * ((team pace) / (league pace)). For the 2008-09 Cavaliers this is 0.32 * 100.0 * (88.7 / 91.7) = 30.95.
4. Credit Defensive Win Shares to the players. Defensive Win Shares are credited using the following formula: (marginal defense) / (marginal points per win). James gets credit for 202.5 / 30.95 = 6.54 Defensive Win Shares.

Does this in any way help explain it? :Shrug: I just ignore it, LOL!

 

[Yuma]

If the Suns got into multiple fistfights in the locker room, they should have saved the effort for the court.

I just want to know who ruled fight club in the locker room. Of course the first rule of fight club is not to talk about fight club.

 

[Hoop Head]

I just want to know who ruled fight club in the locker room. Of course the first rule of fight club is not to talk about fight club.

Shhhh!

 

[95pro]

KD and centers. Seems there may be some truth imo. Ayton had some comments. Nurk is outspoken. Both gone.

 

[95pro]

I really don't think KD would lie about this. He doesn't have any incentive too, he is about to leave, and quite frankly he would like an excuse for how bad the team was last year.

KD is as defensive as a person you can get. Of course he would.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just want to know who ruled fight club in the locker room. Of course the first rule of fight club is not to talk about fight club.

My guess is Mason Plumlee. Who else would take on Steven Adams.

He does kind of look like Brad Pitt.

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[leclerc]

Both ejaculated you mean.