So What’s Wrong With Kyler Murray?

dreamcastrocks

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I’d pass on Pugh at that price. There will be a nice selection of FA guards in 2022. Get someone younger. Pugh has been reasonably durable, but his recent injury coupled with quite a bit of tread ware makes me think it’s time to change.
We seemingly rarely agree these days... as far as making the hard choices go, Pugh seems to be the least hard to make.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Pugh has been solid, plus he took a pay cut to stay with the team. I would bring him back.
Kinda seems like a crappy thing to do to ask him to take another... that's one of the reasons I do.
 

DaHilg

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Kinda seems like a crappy thing to do to ask him to take another... that's one of the reasons I do.
A lot of players do that with the alternative of being cut (pending guaranteed money left in contract) or are rewarded with more guaranteed money for taking a pay cut. I don’t know Pugh’s contract details but that’s very common for players who aren’t living up to the value of their contract.
 

dreamcastrocks

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A lot of players do that with the alternative of being cut (pending guaranteed money left in contract) or are rewarded with more guaranteed money for taking a pay cut. I don’t know Pugh’s contract details but that’s very common for players who aren’t living up to the value of their contract.
Of course it is. We see it all the time. With that said, I get asking players to do it once. Twice though? Kinda bushleague.
 

Chopper0080

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We have a LOT of free agents this year. We are going to have to make some real hard choices. Jones, Ertz, Green, Both our running backs, Kirk, etc.
PlayerPos.2021 Team2022 TeamTypeSnapsAgeCurrent APYGuarantees
Chandler JonesEDGECardinalsUFA65.0%32$16,500,000$31,000,000
Zach ErtzTECardinalsVoid72.0%32$8,500,000$13,318,527
A.J. GreenWRCardinalsVoid74.7%34$6,000,000$6,000,000
Dennis GardeckEDGECardinalsUFA15.6%28$3,384,000$0
Maxx WilliamsTECardinalsUFA20.2%28$2,333,333$750,000
Zeke TurnerLBCardinalsUFA0.5%26$2,133,000$0
James ConnerRBCardinalsUFA50.4%27$1,750,000$1,750,000
Andy LeePCardinalsUFA27.9%40$1,500,000$600,000
Christian KirkWRCardinalsUFA75.3%26$1,473,719$3,595,129
Colt McCoyQBCardinalsUFA19.1%36$1,212,500$137,500
Corey PetersIDLCardinalsUFA32.1%34$1,212,500$0
Darrell DanielsTECardinalsUFA21.0%28$1,127,500$562,500
Charles WashingtonSCardinalsUFA0.3%29$1,127,500$68,750
Max GarciaLGCardinalsUFA66.8%31$1,127,500$687,500
Chris BanjoSCardinalsUFA1.3%32$1,075,000$0
Jack CrawfordIDLCardinalsUFA0.0%34$1,075,000$0
Demetrius HarrisTECardinalsUFA19.2%31$1,075,000$0
Zach KerrIDLCardinalsUFA10.0%32$1,075,000$0
Aaron BrewerLSCardinalsUFA23.5%32$1,037,500$620,000
Antonio HamiltonCBCardinalsUFA25.3%29$990,000$0
Joe WalkerLBCardinalsUFA5.1%30$990,000$0
Robert AlfordCBCardinalsUFA51.6%34$990,000$0
Kylie FittsEDGECardinalsRFA2.1%28$920,000$0
Michael DogbeIDLCardinalsRFA22.9%26$850,000$0
Greg DortchWRCardinalsERFA2.0%24$780,000$0
Chase EdmondsRBCardinalsUFA43.3%26$728,089$452,356
Jonathan WardRBCardinalsERFA3.7%25$695,000$0
Antoine WesleyWRCardinalsERFA36.7%25$660,000$0
Javon HaganSCardinalsSFA0.0%25$165,600$0

I get it and agree. I just think those hard choices are everything outside of protecting Kyler Murray and having a decent running game.

The tough part about this list is that their are very few "no brainers". I would argue Zach Ertz, Colt McCoy and Antonio Hamilton are the only real no brainers and that is because Hamilton and McCoy shouldn't cost a ton more than they cost this year.

After that it all comes down to cost. Chandler Jones, James Conner, Christian Kirk, Chase Edmonds, Dennis Gardeck, and Maxx Williams are all cost dependent re-signs. If Conner takes 3 years 16 mil total, you sign him. If he wants more, let him test the market. Same with Edmonds. Gardeck, will he take 2 mil as a core special teamer? Will Kirk settle for 8 or does he want the 12 he will likely get on the open market? Will Chandler take 14 or try FA for 18+? How much is Maxx willing to take? The only negative is the lack of continuity if these guys want to chase the bag. The worst thing we can do is pay big money to average players in relation to the position they play.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I get it and agree. I just think those hard choices are everything outside of protecting Kyler Murray and having a decent running game.

The tough part about this list is that their are very few "no brainers". I would argue Zach Ertz, Colt McCoy and Antonio Hamilton are the only real no brainers and that is because Hamilton and McCoy shouldn't cost a ton more than they cost this year.

After that it all comes down to cost. Chandler Jones, James Conner, Christian Kirk, Chase Edmonds, Dennis Gardeck, and Maxx Williams are all cost dependent re-signs. If Conner takes 3 years 16 mil total, you sign him. If he wants more, let him test the market. Same with Edmonds. Gardeck, will he take 2 mil as a core special teamer? Will Kirk settle for 8 or does he want the 12 he will likely get on the open market? Will Chandler take 14 or try FA for 18+? How much is Maxx willing to take? The only negative is the lack of continuity if these guys want to chase the bag. The worst thing we can do is pay big money to average players in relation to the position they play.
Completely agree with everything you said and it will make this offseason very interesting...
 

Chopper0080

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Regarding Pugh. He is 100% overpaid for his production and he is 100% upgradeable. That said, we have no one on the roster who can replace him and unless you can sign a 100% stud in FA, I am not cutting him and risking our future on a Keim offensive line draft pick.
 

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Regarding Pugh. He is 100% overpaid for his production and he is 100% upgradeable. That said, we have no one on the roster who can replace him and unless you can sign a 100% stud in FA, I am not cutting him and risking our future on a Keim offensive line draft pick.

You're right. Cutting Pugh nets $6m minus the replacement costs.
 

Chopper0080

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Completely agree with everything you said and it will make this offseason very interesting...
and if I had my say, I start with this group and work out from there.

Colt McCoy - small raise and should be easy. He is number 1 because Kyler has shown he will likely miss some games and Colt has shown he can compete in those games in this offense.

Zach Ertz - Only reason he is 2nd is because of his age vs dollars he commands. Outside of that, #1 guy after Colt.

Antonio Hamilton - small raise and should be easy.

Chandler Jones - Most will disagree but this is a valuable position at which we have little proven talent behind him. He is also still productive even if it is in spurts.

James Conner / Chase Edmonds - For Conner is a little more valuable as his skill set seems to be a bit harder to find coming out of college these days but both are good players who will be missed. However, have to remember how we acquired both of these players and the position they play.

Dennis Gardeck - He is a special teams guy and those players are valuable. The fact that he can take a few reps at OLB is just extra. Unless he has an unrealistic view of himself, this should not be too tough.

Maxx Williams - Ertz and Maxx is really a dream scenario. You probably want to acquire a young one as well and make our offense more versatile.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I think we will only sign one of Conner/Chase and we draft the replacement for the other. I'd like to keep them both, but unless we let Chandler go, there won't be the money for it. Besides, I'm not sure you can sign 2 free agent running backs anymore. (by can, I mean should)
 

Chopper0080

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I’d pass on Pugh at that price. There will be a nice selection of FA guards in 2022. Get someone younger. Pugh has been reasonably durable, but his recent injury coupled with quite a bit of tread ware makes me think it’s time to change.
Ok I will bite. What OGs are you talking about?

Brandon Scherff yes in terms of talent but has also been banged up and is same age as Pugh.

Alex Cappa?

Mark Glowinski?

Austin Corbett?

Do any of them even play LG? I get taking a flyer on Will Hernandez or James Daniels if you feel like their issues where system related but neither are slam dunks and you better have a slam dunk if you are cutting Justin Pugh aka our best OG by a mile.
 

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I think we save 10m - minus the replacement costs.

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You're right. It's more than $6m, although who knows with the 'per game roster bonus'. That said: if we are seeking a FA replacement of Pugh's ability, I doubt we save much or at all. I'd rather they consider a new one-year deal spread over two to manage the cap hit and maintain 0-line continuity.
 

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I will jump in w/o reading the other post. Kyler is small, scared and not nearly as fast as reported. He also has terrible demeaner and leadership. I would trade him for almost anything before giving him a crippling contract extension.
Is this Bannable?
 

SuperPool31

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His name would be Josh McDaniels and Kyler would become a hall of famer. Someone get me the the patriots offices in the line!!
 

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