So What’s Wrong With Kyler Murray?

[dreamcastrocks]

I’d pass on Pugh at that price. There will be a nice selection of FA guards in 2022. Get someone younger. Pugh has been reasonably durable, but his recent injury coupled with quite a bit of tread ware makes me think it’s time to change.

We seemingly rarely agree these days... as far as making the hard choices go, Pugh seems to be the least hard to make.

 

[JosiahLee]

We seemingly rarely agree these days... as far as making the hard choices go, Pugh seems to be the least hard to make.

Pugh has been solid, plus he took a pay cut to stay with the team. I would bring him back.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Pugh has been solid, plus he took a pay cut to stay with the team. I would bring him back.

Kinda seems like a crappy thing to do to ask him to take another... that's one of the reasons I do.

 

[DaHilg]

Kinda seems like a crappy thing to do to ask him to take another... that's one of the reasons I do.

A lot of players do that with the alternative of being cut (pending guaranteed money left in contract) or are rewarded with more guaranteed money for taking a pay cut. I don’t know Pugh’s contract details but that’s very common for players who aren’t living up to the value of their contract.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

A lot of players do that with the alternative of being cut (pending guaranteed money left in contract) or are rewarded with more guaranteed money for taking a pay cut. I don’t know Pugh’s contract details but that’s very common for players who aren’t living up to the value of their contract.

Of course it is. We see it all the time. With that said, I get asking players to do it once. Twice though? Kinda bushleague.

 

[TheCardFan]

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[TheCardFan]

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[TheCardFan]

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[TheCardFan]

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[Chopper0080]

We have a LOT of free agents this year. We are going to have to make some real hard choices. Jones, Ertz, Green, Both our running backs, Kirk, etc.

​

Player	Pos.	2021 Team	2022 Team	Type	Snaps	Age	Current APY	Guarantees
Chandler Jones	EDGE	Cardinals		UFA	65.0%	32	$16,500,000	$31,000,000
Zach Ertz	TE	Cardinals		Void	72.0%	32	$8,500,000	$13,318,527
A.J. Green	WR	Cardinals		Void	74.7%	34	$6,000,000	$6,000,000
Dennis Gardeck	EDGE	Cardinals		UFA	15.6%	28	$3,384,000	$0
Maxx Williams	TE	Cardinals		UFA	20.2%	28	$2,333,333	$750,000
Zeke Turner	LB	Cardinals		UFA	0.5%	26	$2,133,000	$0
James Conner	RB	Cardinals		UFA	50.4%	27	$1,750,000	$1,750,000
Andy Lee	P	Cardinals		UFA	27.9%	40	$1,500,000	$600,000
Christian Kirk	WR	Cardinals		UFA	75.3%	26	$1,473,719	$3,595,129
Colt McCoy	QB	Cardinals		UFA	19.1%	36	$1,212,500	$137,500
Corey Peters	IDL	Cardinals		UFA	32.1%	34	$1,212,500	$0
Darrell Daniels	TE	Cardinals		UFA	21.0%	28	$1,127,500	$562,500
Charles Washington	S	Cardinals		UFA	0.3%	29	$1,127,500	$68,750
Max Garcia	LG	Cardinals		UFA	66.8%	31	$1,127,500	$687,500
Chris Banjo	S	Cardinals		UFA	1.3%	32	$1,075,000	$0
Jack Crawford	IDL	Cardinals		UFA	0.0%	34	$1,075,000	$0
Demetrius Harris	TE	Cardinals		UFA	19.2%	31	$1,075,000	$0
Zach Kerr	IDL	Cardinals		UFA	10.0%	32	$1,075,000	$0
Aaron Brewer	LS	Cardinals		UFA	23.5%	32	$1,037,500	$620,000
Antonio Hamilton	CB	Cardinals		UFA	25.3%	29	$990,000	$0
Joe Walker	LB	Cardinals		UFA	5.1%	30	$990,000	$0
Robert Alford	CB	Cardinals		UFA	51.6%	34	$990,000	$0
Kylie Fitts	EDGE	Cardinals		RFA	2.1%	28	$920,000	$0
Michael Dogbe	IDL	Cardinals		RFA	22.9%	26	$850,000	$0
Greg Dortch	WR	Cardinals		ERFA	2.0%	24	$780,000	$0
Chase Edmonds	RB	Cardinals		UFA	43.3%	26	$728,089	$452,356
Jonathan Ward	RB	Cardinals		ERFA	3.7%	25	$695,000	$0
Antoine Wesley	WR	Cardinals		ERFA	36.7%	25	$660,000	$0
Javon Hagan	S	Cardinals		SFA	0.0%	25	$165,600	$0

​

I get it and agree. I just think those hard choices are everything outside of protecting Kyler Murray and having a decent running game.

The tough part about this list is that their are very few "no brainers". I would argue Zach Ertz, Colt McCoy and Antonio Hamilton are the only real no brainers and that is because Hamilton and McCoy shouldn't cost a ton more than they cost this year.

After that it all comes down to cost. Chandler Jones, James Conner, Christian Kirk, Chase Edmonds, Dennis Gardeck, and Maxx Williams are all cost dependent re-signs. If Conner takes 3 years 16 mil total, you sign him. If he wants more, let him test the market. Same with Edmonds. Gardeck, will he take 2 mil as a core special teamer? Will Kirk settle for 8 or does he want the 12 he will likely get on the open market? Will Chandler take 14 or try FA for 18+? How much is Maxx willing to take? The only negative is the lack of continuity if these guys want to chase the bag. The worst thing we can do is pay big money to average players in relation to the position they play.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I get it and agree. I just think those hard choices are everything outside of protecting Kyler Murray and having a decent running game.

The tough part about this list is that their are very few "no brainers". I would argue Zach Ertz, Colt McCoy and Antonio Hamilton are the only real no brainers and that is because Hamilton and McCoy shouldn't cost a ton more than they cost this year.

After that it all comes down to cost. Chandler Jones, James Conner, Christian Kirk, Chase Edmonds, Dennis Gardeck, and Maxx Williams are all cost dependent re-signs. If Conner takes 3 years 16 mil total, you sign him. If he wants more, let him test the market. Same with Edmonds. Gardeck, will he take 2 mil as a core special teamer? Will Kirk settle for 8 or does he want the 12 he will likely get on the open market? Will Chandler take 14 or try FA for 18+? How much is Maxx willing to take? The only negative is the lack of continuity if these guys want to chase the bag. The worst thing we can do is pay big money to average players in relation to the position they play.

Completely agree with everything you said and it will make this offseason very interesting...

 

[Chopper0080]

Regarding Pugh. He is 100% overpaid for his production and he is 100% upgradeable. That said, we have no one on the roster who can replace him and unless you can sign a 100% stud in FA, I am not cutting him and risking our future on a Keim offensive line draft pick.

 

[QuebecCard]

Regarding Pugh. He is 100% overpaid for his production and he is 100% upgradeable. That said, we have no one on the roster who can replace him and unless you can sign a 100% stud in FA, I am not cutting him and risking our future on a Keim offensive line draft pick.

You're right. Cutting Pugh nets $6m minus the replacement costs.

 

[Chopper0080]

Completely agree with everything you said and it will make this offseason very interesting...

and if I had my say, I start with this group and work out from there.

Colt McCoy - small raise and should be easy. He is number 1 because Kyler has shown he will likely miss some games and Colt has shown he can compete in those games in this offense.

Zach Ertz - Only reason he is 2nd is because of his age vs dollars he commands. Outside of that, #1 guy after Colt.

Antonio Hamilton - small raise and should be easy.

Chandler Jones - Most will disagree but this is a valuable position at which we have little proven talent behind him. He is also still productive even if it is in spurts.

James Conner / Chase Edmonds - For Conner is a little more valuable as his skill set seems to be a bit harder to find coming out of college these days but both are good players who will be missed. However, have to remember how we acquired both of these players and the position they play.

Dennis Gardeck - He is a special teams guy and those players are valuable. The fact that he can take a few reps at OLB is just extra. Unless he has an unrealistic view of himself, this should not be too tough.

Maxx Williams - Ertz and Maxx is really a dream scenario. You probably want to acquire a young one as well and make our offense more versatile.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think we will only sign one of Conner/Chase and we draft the replacement for the other. I'd like to keep them both, but unless we let Chandler go, there won't be the money for it. Besides, I'm not sure you can sign 2 free agent running backs anymore. (by can, I mean should)

 

[TheCardFan]

You're right. Cutting Pugh nets $6m minus the replacement costs.

I think we save 10m - minus the replacement costs.

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[Chopper0080]

I’d pass on Pugh at that price. There will be a nice selection of FA guards in 2022. Get someone younger. Pugh has been reasonably durable, but his recent injury coupled with quite a bit of tread ware makes me think it’s time to change.

Ok I will bite. What OGs are you talking about?

Brandon Scherff yes in terms of talent but has also been banged up and is same age as Pugh.

Alex Cappa?

Mark Glowinski?

Austin Corbett?

Do any of them even play LG? I get taking a flyer on Will Hernandez or James Daniels if you feel like their issues where system related but neither are slam dunks and you better have a slam dunk if you are cutting Justin Pugh aka our best OG by a mile.

 

[QuebecCard]

I think we save 10m - minus the replacement costs.

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You're right. It's more than $6m, although who knows with the 'per game roster bonus'. That said: if we are seeking a FA replacement of Pugh's ability, I doubt we save much or at all. I'd rather they consider a new one-year deal spread over two to manage the cap hit and maintain 0-line continuity.

 

[Cards_Campos]

I will jump in w/o reading the other post. Kyler is small, scared and not nearly as fast as reported. He also has terrible demeaner and leadership. I would trade him for almost anything before giving him a crippling contract extension.

Is this Bannable?

 

[KYCardFan]

Will not step up in pocket

Froze with receivers wide open

Shat the bed in playoff debut

 

[SuperPool31]

His name would be Josh McDaniels and Kyler would become a hall of famer. Someone get me the the patriots offices in the line!!

 

[Shane]

His name would be Josh McDaniels and Kyler would become a hall of famer. Someone get me the the patriots offices in the line!!

Doubtful

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

Kyler Murray will end up getting paid to play baseball and brag about being an NFL MVP candidate. I can see it coming in two years

 

[unseenaz]

Kyler Murray will end up getting paid to play baseball and brag about being an NFL MVP candidate. I can see it coming in two years

that would be so az cardinals football

 

[Beaver]

He would rather be a gamer than an NFL QB who studies tape.