So What’s Wrong With Kyler Murray?

dreamcastrocks

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So we have our two best OL, Hudson and Humphries, locked up through next year. That's great.

Pugh is also signed through 2022, but will be 32, and will have a pretty decent cap hit I believe. His base salary goes from 4 million this year to 8 million next year. He's solid, but I'm not sure if we want to retain him for that kind of money.

Beechum is signed up for 2022 also, but for a song compared to Pugh. A little less than 2 million in base salary. He will be 33 however. He's also solid, and has been pretty durable, but surely Father Time is starting to catch up with him, and so I guess the Cardinals will have to consider replacing him for next season. Maybe not.

RG is the real weak point. Justin Murray is signed through 2022 for only about 2 million, but can't stay healthy. Jones and Garcia try their hardest, but seem to be inconsistent. Harlow? Perhaps, but wouldn't he have won a starting job by now?

But the above information should demonstrate the Oline is soon going to need quite a bit of maintenance. We're going to need to invest both draft and FA capital into those positions if we're serious about building a dominant team.
I want our 1st round pick to be a guard. We will be about the place in the draft where the best interior lineman goes off of the board.
 

QuebecCard

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9-1 now with Hudson.. water still holds, make this from arguably the worst O-Line in the league without him (actually can’t even think of a worse in the league) - to a bottom quarter OLine w Hudson in the line-up.

Can only imagine the difference in not only Kyler, but our run game if you have us a PAIR of competent guards. Hump and Beachum are competent enough at tackle if you do that.

You don't have to 'argue' or even 'think' as there are plenty of stats that prove this assertion wrong.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Let me guess, PFF? Lol.

Are you saying that our offensive line is still in the bottom quarter with Hudson on the field? I'd love to see your reasoning...
 

Chopper0080

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So we have our two best OL, Hudson and Humphries, locked up through next year. That's great.

Pugh is also signed through 2022, but will be 32, and will have a pretty decent cap hit I believe. His base salary goes from 4 million this year to 8 million next year. He's solid, but I'm not sure if we want to retain him for that kind of money.

Beechum is signed up for 2022 also, but for a song compared to Pugh. A little less than 2 million in base salary. He will be 33 however. He's also solid, and has been pretty durable, but surely Father Time is starting to catch up with him, and so I guess the Cardinals will have to consider replacing him for next season. Maybe not.

RG is the real weak point. Justin Murray is signed through 2022 for only about 2 million, but can't stay healthy. Jones and Garcia try their hardest, but seem to be inconsistent. Harlow? Perhaps, but wouldn't he have won a starting job by now?

But the above information should demonstrate the Oline is soon going to need quite a bit of maintenance. We're going to need to invest both draft and FA capital into those positions if we're serious about building a dominant team.
What I saw vs Dallas is that the team can get bye with Beachum and Josh Jones at OT for a game. In fact, I can argue that yesterday cost DJ Humphries some money. I would be careful just getting rid of Pugh without a legitimate player in place to replace him especially with a QB like Kyler. A Jordan Hicks like player on offense.
 

Chopper0080

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I want our 1st round pick to be a guard. We will be about the place in the draft where the best interior lineman goes off of the board.
I would agree with offensive line in general but a lot will happen between now and then. I agree that interior OL might have the best talent available with where we will be drafting but we will see.
 

Chopper0080

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Basically, I believe we are tied to Kliff and Kyler and in order for us to make a consistent jump. I think Kyler needs protection to be able to refine his in-pocket skills. I know we need a bunch of other stuff, but for me, offensive line needs multiple additions on top of what we already have.
 

ajcardfan

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What I saw vs Dallas is that the team can get bye with Beachum and Josh Jones at OT for a game. In fact, I can argue that yesterday cost DJ Humphries some money. I would be careful just getting rid of Pugh without a legitimate player in place to replace him especially with a QB like Kyler. A Jordan Hicks like player on offense.
I think it would be ill advised to lose both Beachum and Pugh. If it comes down to a choice, I would favor Pugh because we do have a replacement at OT ready.
 

Chopper0080

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I think it would be ill advised to lose both Beachum and Pugh. If it comes down to a choice, I would favor Pugh because we do have a replacement at OT ready.
I don't see why we can't afford both at this point. Pugh might be willing to extend his contract a year as well to lower the hit. That said, the Cardinals need to add young players now vs when those vets leave. Adding/drafting one or two OGs and an OT is probably what is needed. This is dependent on Keim figuring out how to draft offensive linemen. Historically not confidence inspiring.
 

football karma

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I think Kyler needs protection to be able to refine his in-pocket skills. I know we need a bunch of other stuff, but for me, offensive line needs multiple additions on top of what we already have.
i think this is spot on

the one thing i noticed about last years swoon and this years --- more pressure on K1 than earlier in the year /a ton of 4 yard throws / no running game production / lots of third downs
 

dreamcastrocks

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I don't see why we can't afford both at this point. Pugh might be willing to extend his contract a year as well to lower the hit. That said, the Cardinals need to add young players now vs when those vets leave. Adding/drafting one or two OGs and an OT is probably what is needed. This is dependent on Keim figuring out how to draft offensive linemen. Historically not confidence inspiring.

We have a LOT of free agents this year. We are going to have to make some real hard choices. Jones, Ertz, Green, Both our running backs, Kirk, etc.
PlayerPos.2021 Team2022 TeamTypeSnapsAgeCurrent APYGuarantees
Chandler JonesEDGECardinalsUFA65.0%32$16,500,000$31,000,000
Zach ErtzTECardinalsVoid72.0%32$8,500,000$13,318,527
A.J. GreenWRCardinalsVoid74.7%34$6,000,000$6,000,000
Dennis GardeckEDGECardinalsUFA15.6%28$3,384,000$0
Maxx WilliamsTECardinalsUFA20.2%28$2,333,333$750,000
Zeke TurnerLBCardinalsUFA0.5%26$2,133,000$0
James ConnerRBCardinalsUFA50.4%27$1,750,000$1,750,000
Andy LeePCardinalsUFA27.9%40$1,500,000$600,000
Christian KirkWRCardinalsUFA75.3%26$1,473,719$3,595,129
Colt McCoyQBCardinalsUFA19.1%36$1,212,500$137,500
Corey PetersIDLCardinalsUFA32.1%34$1,212,500$0
Darrell DanielsTECardinalsUFA21.0%28$1,127,500$562,500
Charles WashingtonSCardinalsUFA0.3%29$1,127,500$68,750
Max GarciaLGCardinalsUFA66.8%31$1,127,500$687,500
Chris BanjoSCardinalsUFA1.3%32$1,075,000$0
Jack CrawfordIDLCardinalsUFA0.0%34$1,075,000$0
Demetrius HarrisTECardinalsUFA19.2%31$1,075,000$0
Zach KerrIDLCardinalsUFA10.0%32$1,075,000$0
Aaron BrewerLSCardinalsUFA23.5%32$1,037,500$620,000
Antonio HamiltonCBCardinalsUFA25.3%29$990,000$0
Joe WalkerLBCardinalsUFA5.1%30$990,000$0
Robert AlfordCBCardinalsUFA51.6%34$990,000$0
Kylie FittsEDGECardinalsRFA2.1%28$920,000$0
Michael DogbeIDLCardinalsRFA22.9%26$850,000$0
Greg DortchWRCardinalsERFA2.0%24$780,000$0
Chase EdmondsRBCardinalsUFA43.3%26$728,089$452,356
Jonathan WardRBCardinalsERFA3.7%25$695,000$0
Antoine WesleyWRCardinalsERFA36.7%25$660,000$0
Javon HaganSCardinalsSFA0.0%25$165,600$0

 

SoonerLou

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Ertz is a godsend, but he might be the tough choice we have to let go of. If Maxx gets back healthy (big IF) I think getting him on a cheaper deal is the better move.
 

JohnnyCakes

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a lot of names on that list can be replaced or resigned easily IMO

Kirk and Jones are gone, Conner most likely gets big payday.
I would try and resign Maxx, Chase, AJ Green, Ertz.
 

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Ertz is a godsend, but he might be the tough choice we have to let go of. If Maxx gets back healthy (big IF) I think getting him on a cheaper deal is the better move.
. how many times do you guys think it’s good to depend on players coming back from major injury before you realize that’s a recipe for disaster? It’s like people pimping resigning Gardeck instead of Reddick.

Yes... Maxx would be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
 

splitsecond

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a lot of names on that list can be replaced or resigned easily IMO

Kirk and Jones are gone, Conner most likely gets big payday.
I would try and resign Maxx, Chase, AJ Green, Ertz.
Why the hell did I think Conner got a 2 years deal? Mandela effect must be happening again.
 

dreamcastrocks

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. how many times do you guys think it’s good to depend on players coming back from major injury before you realize that’s a recipe for disaster? It’s like people pimping resigning Gardeck instead of Reddick.

Yes... Maxx would be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
Or re-signing Tyrann and DJ to massive contracts after major injuries...
 

DVontel

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I lowkey want to resign Chase. Even though he’s a RB & has been injured lately, think he’s too much of a playmaker to just let him walk out the door. Feels like he makes us GO more than anyone sans-QB. Can’t be expensive though. I’m being so hypocritical here lol.
 

SoonerLou

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. how many times do you guys think it’s good to depend on players coming back from major injury before you realize that’s a recipe for disaster? It’s like people pimping resigning Gardeck instead of Reddick.

Yes... Maxx would be cheaper, but you get what you pay for.
Thats fair. I might be playing with fire with that. However, its more in regards to not losing one of those Olineman if we're balancing out who returns. Going to be an interesting offseason.
 

cheesebeef

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Thats fair. I might be playing with fire with that. However, its more in regards to not losing one of those Olineman if we're balancing out who returns. Going to be an interesting offseason.

Keim definitely has his work cut out for him. There's a ton of key FA hitting the market. Kinda surprised we didn't try to get anyone signed to contract extensions during the season.
 
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So we have our two best OL, Hudson and Humphries, locked up through next year. That's great.

Pugh is also signed through 2022, but will be 32, and will have a pretty decent cap hit I believe. His base salary goes from 4 million this year to 8 million next year. He's solid, but I'm not sure if we want to retain him for that kind of money.

Beechum is signed up for 2022 also, but for a song compared to Pugh. A little less than 2 million in base salary. He will be 33 however. He's also solid, and has been pretty durable, but surely Father Time is starting to catch up with him, and so I guess the Cardinals will have to consider replacing him for next season. Maybe not.

RG is the real weak point. Justin Murray is signed through 2022 for only about 2 million, but can't stay healthy. Jones and Garcia try their hardest, but seem to be inconsistent. Harlow? Perhaps, but wouldn't he have won a starting job by now?

But the above information should demonstrate the Oline is soon going to need quite a bit of maintenance. We're going to need to invest both draft and FA capital into those positions if we're serious about building a dominant team.
I’d pass on Pugh at that price. There will be a nice selection of FA guards in 2022. Get someone younger. Pugh has been reasonably durable, but his recent injury coupled with quite a bit of tread ware makes me think it’s time to change.
 

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Ertz is a godsend, but he might be the tough choice we have to let go of. If Maxx gets back healthy (big IF) I think getting him on a cheaper deal is the better move.
For the blocking alone that Maxx provides, yes 100%. Plus, he is truly connected with the team even though he's been on IR (with his weekly social media posts etc.) shows he wants to be here
 

MrYeahBut

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fwiw, I take umbrage at the use of 'swoon' to describe the team's late season woes. Swoon is for damsels in distress, football should be like 'tribulations'... hahaha
 

dreamcastrocks

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Keim definitely has his work cut out for him. There's a ton of key FA hitting the market. Kinda surprised we didn't try to get anyone signed to contract extensions during the season.
We have about $7M in cap space. I would have like to have seen moving that money around, but that is pretty nitpicky.
 

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