Seahawks 58 Cardinals 0: Post Game Thoughts

[Mitch]

I am not sure I agree with Fitz's Dad that the team quit---so many of the players were trying out there---the one thing I was very curious about was which players would show up in the second half, knowing the game was embarrassingly well out of reach---and these are the players I noticed and thus whose names I wrote down:

William Powell---how about that sidestepping show he put on out there?
Hyphen---he ALWAYS tries hard---
Nate Potter---this kid is a high effort player
Daryn Colledge---I think he really tried to keep the huddle together and he was clearly standing up for his team and their pride
Rich Ohrnsberger---returned to play as badly injured as his knee appeared to be
Bobbie Massie---who, imo, had one of his best games
Michael Floyd---was trying hard despite it all
Rob Housler---no quit in this kid
David Carter---Darnell Dockett---Calais Campbell (wonder what he and AW were saying to each other on the way to the locker room at halftime?)---Vonnie Holliday---Sam Acho (played his tail off, hardest of anyone, imo)---Paris Lenon---Quentin Groves (who is making strides)---Reggie Walker (nice pass breakup on a difficult assignment)---James Sanders---Rashad Johnson (whom I imagine made us all proud with the clean shoulder lick he stamped on Rice).

While I am remembering this---one play that irked me as much as any---was Beanie Wells turning the corner and being one-on-one with Super Punk PED Hot Dog CB Richard Sherman with the golden opportunity to kew him up, lower the shoulder and take some of the romance out of his personal parade day---except that Beanie Wells tried to sidestep Sherman and Sherman dropped him easily by one ankle for a mere 2 yard gain.

Someone must have said something to Wells because later he did try to punish one of the Seahawks DBs, but it wasn't Sherman and the DB got underneath Wells anyway---but at least he tried on that one.

Tried For Pride

So---like I was saying---I am not sure this was a team that altogether quit---I think it was a team that's spirit has been broken---a team that is resigned to the same old same old---a team that has now lost the old real veteran leaders as in Fitzgerald (sorry to say---but he's playing and looking like the poor, poor victim out there), Dockett (no more Birdgang) and Wilson (who may have fallen the farthest from grace in that he was the first one singled out for the sudden mid-season "accountability" sanctions.

John Skelton

I would first like to say that I am very disappointed in him---not just in how carelessly he threw the last two interceptions yesterday---but in how he has squandered his golden opportunity this year to stake his claim as the starting QB.

Yes, he won the job, de facto really, in TC---but even back to the first Red & White scrimmage, all he was doing was playing super cautious---which didn't inflate anyone's confidence.

Now, the thing is, the way Whisenhunt vacillates on QBs (EVERY QB he's had in Arizona), it's really up to the QB to keep confidence in himself---which is what kicked in late in games for Skelton the past two years.

But, as for yesterday and what Skelton had to endure the past 2 and 3/4 weeks/games---how could he possibly come into that game with any real semblance of confidence???---knowing that, as a Jets' beat writer said the week before, "Boy, Ken Whisenhunt must really hate John Skelton."

Then---the ultimate disgrace to his own players, imo---when asked about by Somers which QB will start---Whisenhunt saying: "Can YOU play?"

What I Really Want To Know:

How ALL the same players would play under stronger coaching and leadership.

Please Bidwills no roster purging---that is, until the new coach can assess these players himself...and not just off this year's game tape.

I think there will be several nice surprises with some of the players we already have.

Skelton & Perception

The perception of John Skelton around the league now is so vividly negative---he may never recover from this season---known as the worst QB for the worst offense in the NFL.

It is going to take a highly open-minded coach to have belief in Skelton and to get Skelton's level of play and confidence to where it needs to be.

Same for Lindley---who looks thoroughly unprepared, unconfident and lost.

The same way Kolb looked for the first eight games last year.

You know---people scoff when they see Pete Carroll drooling his man crush saliva all over Russell Wilson or when they see Jim Harbaugh pounding on Colin Kaepernick's shoulder pads while talking him up big-time minutes before the game---BUT---it's all about doing whatever it takes to build the young QB's confidence. Obviously, elsewhere around the NFC West, it's working.

I have a number of more thoughts on Whisenhunt, but enough is enough...unless you really insist.

 

[Duckjake]

William Powell---how about that sidestepping show he put on out there?
Hyphen---he ALWAYS tries hard---
Nate Potter---this kid is a high effort player
Daryn Colledge---I think he really tried to keep the huddle together and he was clearly standing up for his team and their pride
Rich Ohrnsberger---returned to play as badly injured as his knee appeared to be
Bobbie Massie---who, imo, had one of his best games
Michael Floyd---was trying hard despite it all
Rob Housler---no quit in this kid
David Carter---Darnell Dockett---Calais Campbell (wonder what he and AW were saying to each other on the way to the locker room at halftime?)---Vonnie Holliday---Sam Acho (played his tail off, hardest of anyone, imo)---Paris Lenon---Quentin Groves (who is making strides)---Reggie Walker (nice pass breakup on a difficult assignment)---James Sanders---Rashad Johnson (whom I imagine made us all proud with the clean shoulder lick he stamped on Rice).

If all these guys were playing like you state and the Cards still lost 58-0 maybe the Bidwills do need to purge the roster.

The thing that most concerned me was the stat I read somewhere that Seattle's runners had over 200 yards BEFORE contact yesterday. That means there were huge holes. Missed the first half and since it was already 38-0 I didn't pay much attention to the 2nd half. I'll need to drink a quart of DesertDawg Rum tonight to be able to watch the replay to see if I can tell what was up.

 

[BLRIGHT]

With all due respect

John Skelton is not a starting NFL quarterback, and he will have the same position in the NFL next year as Max Hall does this year. Ryan Lindley may be an NFL QB some day, but he's still not prepared mentally.

I give Skelton all of the credit in the world for having the moxie to rally the team last year, but nearly every game he played 75% of the game poorly.

The throws he made yesterday were beyond the realm, and the trend started well before he was benched in Atlanta.

 

[bankybruce]

Skelton is a grown man and if the way Whiz handled him is to blame for is terrible play, then he has no place in the NFL. In fact, I applaud Whiz for not treating him like a baby. Should Whiz be fired for picking this sorry crop of QB's and losing the team, yes. Should he be blamed for Skelton sucking, no unless you just hate Whiz and it is the easy thing to do.

 

[bankybruce]

John Skelton is not a starting NFL quarterback, and he will have the same position in the NFL next year as Max Hall does this year. Ryan Lindley may be an NFL QB some day, but he's still not prepared mentally.

I give Skelton all of the credit in the world for having the moxie to rally the team last year, but nearly every game he played 75% of the game poorly.

The throws he made yesterday were beyond the realm, and the trend started well before he was benched in Atlanta.

+1

 

[82CardsGrad]

John Skelton is not a starting NFL quarterback, and he will have the same position in the NFL next year as Max Hall does this year. Ryan Lindley may be an NFL QB some day, but he's still not prepared mentally.

I give Skelton all of the credit in the world for having the moxie to rally the team last year, but nearly every game he played 75% of the game poorly.

The throws he made yesterday were beyond the realm, and the trend started well before he was benched in Atlanta.

Add to that the fact that our o-line has actually been pass-blocking at near NFL-caliber levels, and his performance is all the more craptastic!

 

[BLRIGHT]

Good Point

Add to that the fact that our o-line has actually been pass-blocking at near NFL-caliber levels, and his performance is all the more craptastic!

I have faulted Grimm for much our troubles. But our improved tackle play is actually a reason for hope next year. When Levi's back, there will be depth and/or a trade opportunity to improve another position.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Skeleton is terrible, worse than Lindley - at least Lindley has a partial excuse for sucking by being completely overwhelmed.

 

[Buckybird]

Pity poor John Skelton! Boo hoo mommy Wiz hates me. Come on Mitch, didn't you blast Leinart for not being tough enough & crying to the media because of how Wiz treated him? I'm pretty sure your did, but anyhow that's beside the point. Skelton sucks, Lindley sucks & the Cards will soon be looking for a new HC. I hope Michael takes a broom & pushes every QB off this roster, along with Graves & the entire coaching staff. Same goes for cry baby Dockett, who really doesn't fit or do much in Hortons 3-4 other than run his mouth.

This franchise needs a fair but hard ass coach to teach this about toughness, discipline & smart football just like the 3 other HCs in the NFC West. Hey, Carroll & Harbaugh hate each other...add some more gas to the NFC West stove & let the Cards hire David Shaw!!! Fun times

 

[Zeno]

John Skelton is not a starting NFL quarterback, and he will have the same position in the NFL next year as Max Hall does this year. Ryan Lindley may be an NFL QB some day, but he's still not prepared mentally.

I give Skelton all of the credit in the world for having the moxie to rally the team last year, but nearly every game he played 75% of the game poorly.

The throws he made yesterday were beyond the realm, and the trend started well before he was benched in Atlanta.

Lindley does not have the talent or ability to be a NFL QB-he is a lost cause and doesn't appear to be worth the effort of hanging on to. Skelton at least looked capable of being a long time NFL back up when he was forced to play as a rookie and again last year...he has progressively gotten worse and worse to the point where he looks like he will be using that degree from Fordham to earn a living next year.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Thanks Mitch. I was waiting for your take.

Honestly, I think you are as shell shocked as all of us. In the midst of all this anarchy, you highlighted the positives first.

Thanks for the read.

 

[JeffGollin]

Mitch - almost every positive example you cited was on the offensive side of the ball.

What caused me (& I presume others) to observe that the Cards seemed to be mailing it in was what was happening on defense - starting with that first Lynch TD in the 1Q (where several defenders appeared to be running around themselves and practicing "air tackling.")

This followed by the blown coverage on McCoy on the crossing route (mailing it in can be a mental thing also) and continued "touch football" open field tackling for the remainder of the game.

The 8 turnovers were bad enough, but we lacked our usual resiliency after each miscue too many times (acceptable, perhaps, on other defenses, but not up to our usual standards).

 

[Dr. Jones]

Mitch - almost every positive example you cited was on the offensive side of the ball.

This was the first game that made me think Te'o might be a good draft pick for us. We need to find a new leader in the middle. Someone to hold the entire defense accountable.

Adub's role is being minimized and this is having a systemic effect on the chain of command on defense.

Seriously though...... The defense is the last thing we need to worry about from a personnel standpoint. The culture of internal player accountability is what needs to be changed.

 

[WildBB]

I am not sure I agree with Fitz's Dad that the team quit---so many of the players were trying out there---the one thing I was very curious about was which players would show up in the second half, knowing the game was embarrassingly well out of reach---and these are the players I noticed and thus whose names I wrote down:

William Powell---how about that sidestepping show he put on out there?
Hyphen---he ALWAYS tries hard---
Nate Potter---this kid is a high effort player
Daryn Colledge---I think he really tried to keep the huddle together and he was clearly standing up for his team and their pride
Rich Ohrnsberger---returned to play as badly injured as his knee appeared to be
Bobbie Massie---who, imo, had one of his best games
Michael Floyd---was trying hard despite it all
Rob Housler---no quit in this kid
David Carter---Darnell Dockett---Calais Campbell (wonder what he and AW were saying to each other on the way to the locker room at halftime?)---Vonnie Holliday---Sam Acho (played his tail off, hardest of anyone, imo)---Paris Lenon---Quentin Groves (who is making strides)---Reggie Walker (nice pass breakup on a difficult assignment)---James Sanders---Rashad Johnson (whom I imagine made us all proud with the clean shoulder lick he stamped on Rice).

I'm glad you came out with this list. There were others. Utter demoralization on both sides of the ball, yet game pride still existed, no matter what the sentiment is right now.

Everyone know - this is the low. Now we begin again anew. They either pull each other up by the boot straps - or they have no business here at this level in the first place.

I'm going to say it gets better now. How much, we shall see. The annihilation could help them to circle the wagons and do what they're capable of doing, even if someone else can not.

 

[JeffGollin]

This was the first game that made me think Te'o might be a good draft pick for us. We need to find a new leader in the middle. Someone to hold the entire defense accountable.

Adub's role is being minimized and this is having a systemic effect on the chain of command on defense.

Seriously though...... The defense is the last thing we need to worry about from a personnel standpoint. The culture of internal player accountability is what needs to be changed.

I agree. Our priorities remain run blocking, pass pro, QB and a physical RB. Then again, Te'o seems to have a culture-changing personality to go with his physicality and might be our top-ranked BPA when we pick (though he could be off the board by that time).

 

[Mitch]

Mitch - almost every positive example you cited was on the offensive side of the ball.

What caused me (& I presume others) to observe that the Cards seemed to be mailing it in was what was happening on defense - starting with that first Lynch TD in the 1Q (where several defenders appeared to be running around themselves and practicing "air tackling."

This followed by the blown coverage on McCoy on the crossing route (mailing it in can be a mental thing also) and continued "touch football" open field tackling for the remainder of the game.

The 8 turnovers were bad enough, but we lacked our usual resiliency too many times after each miscue (acceptable, perhaps, on other defenses, but not up to our usual standards).

Totally agree, Jeff. In fact, if Paris Lenon and Sam Acho didn't make tackles, no one would have.

The defense rests---they've been shouldering all the load and as Red says in Shawshank Redemption, "every man has his breaking point."

They reached their breaking point---why?

No hope.

They did everything humanly possible to win the last three games---only to watch the 3 and out parade and no change.

No chance at the playoffs = no hope.

That said, the Lions played very hard last night and they have nothing to play for but pride at this point. Of course, national TV games can inspire any team if they wish to be inspired.

The Dockett debacle didn't help either.

Wilson seems broken.

Rhodes didn't follow up his good game last week.

Not sure what to make of all of it---

What I am sure of is I cannot stand watching another minute of these play calls.

Yesterday---they got the ball first---novel happening---and the strategy seemed sound, as in pass away from the triple team on Fitz with Sherman and the FS and LB---and it worked as Roberts made two good receptions, only when the team needed its first really big third down conversion, it goes to Larry on the left slant which they run 5 out of 10 times on 3rd downs, and was thrown into triple coverage. Why???

 

[WildBB]

I agree. Our priorities remain run blocking, pass pro, QB and a physical RB. Then again, Te'o seems to have a culture-changing personality to go with his physicality and might be our top-ranked BPA when we pick (though he could be off the board by that time).

Not likely where we'll be picking mtl. He's a game changer and a true leader. Much like RGIII for an offense, he'd be for the D, very quickly.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

My post game thought was how hard it was to get 28 points in one quarter when playing a football video game.

 

[JeffGollin]

One apparent Skelton blind spot (pun intended) - I noticed on one play that he tried vainly to force the ball to a tightly covered receiver in the short right flat. Meanwhile, there was a wide open receiver short-center.

It seems that Skelton is having a major problem seeing even half the field.

 

[BLRIGHT]

Lindley does not have the talent or ability to be a NFL QB-he is a lost cause and doesn't appear to be worth the effort of hanging on to. Skelton at least looked capable of being a long time NFL back up when he was forced to play as a rookie and again last year...he has progressively gotten worse and worse to the point where he looks like he will be using that degree from Fordham to earn a living next year.

Lindley has all the talent in the world, and he can make every throw in the playbook. The first quarter against the Rams taught us that. But that does not an NFL quarterback make. He can't make the pre-snap reads/adjustments yet, and his decisionmaking is too slow, then he gets flustered, etc. But that's natural for a rookie playing his 3rd and 4th games of his career. If it were up to me, I would start him every game until Hoyer can get ready, slim down the playbook, and tell him to let it loose within the confines of the offense.

 

[JeffGollin]

Lindley has all the talent in the world, and he can make every throw in the playbook. The first quarter against the Rams taught us that. But that does not an NFL quarterback make. He can't make the pre-snap reads/adjustments yet, and his decisionmaking is too slow, then he gets flustered, etc. But that's natural for a rookie playing his 3rd and 4th games of his career. If it were up to me, I would start him every game until Hoyer can get ready, slim down the playbook, and tell him to let it loose within the confines of the offense.

One major issue obvious in Lindley (but also evident in Skelton and Kolb) - the number of times he'd throw short where his target went long (i.e. the number of times he'd throw behind his receiver).

It's one thing to see major disconnects between QB and receivers in preseason and even early in regular season (& both Skelton and Kolb used the lockout as an excuse the prior year) but, really - how long should it take for QB's and receivers to get on the same page with some consistency?

Follow up question - how much extra time have any of the 3 QB's put in with Cardinal receivers? (I'm guessing by no means not enough).

 

[DemsMyBoys]

One thought about Fitz's dad saying the team quit. His own son was sitting on the bench in the 4th quarter. Plopped down with the rest of the team, helmet off, and looking like he didn't see the bus that just ran the team over. I've never seen him do that. He's almost always on the sidelines by Whiz or Lott.

Unless he was calling out his own son (which I highly doubt considering his past comments) he needs to put a lid on it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Yesterday---they got the ball first---novel happening---and the strategy seemed sound, as in pass away from the triple team on Fitz with Sherman and the FS and LB---and it worked as Roberts made two good receptions, only when the team needed its first really big third down conversion, it goes to Larry on the left slant which they run 5 out of 10 times on 3rd downs, and was thrown into triple coverage. Why???

I'm going to guess the play didn't call for Skelton to throw into triple coverage.

 

[artp]

Lindley has all the talent in the world, and he can make every throw in the playbook. The first quarter against the Rams taught us that. But that does not an NFL quarterback make. He can't make the pre-snap reads/adjustments yet, and his decisionmaking is too slow, then he gets flustered, etc. But that's natural for a rookie playing his 3rd and 4th games of his career. If it were up to me, I would start him every game until Hoyer can get ready, slim down the playbook, and tell him to let it loose within the confines of the offense.

I agree. Lindley has played badly but he is a rookie and a late round draft pick. Skelton has been around awhile. I think Skelton will be, effectively, cut; starting today

 

[BLRIGHT]

One major issue obvious in Lindley (but also evident in Skelton and Kolb) - the number of times he'd throw short where his target went long (i.e. the number of times he'd throw behind his receiver).

It's one thing to see major disconnects between QB and receivers in preseason and even early in regular season (& both Skelton and Kolb used the lockout as an excuse the prior year) but, really - how long should it take for QB's and receivers to get on the same page with some consistency?

Follow up question - how much extra time have any of the 3 QB's put in with Cardinal receivers? (I'm guessing by no means not enough).

The QB and the receiver have to make the same sight adjustment. Two very simple examples of this are (i) on a cover 2 zone, you never run an out pattern because the CB is rolled up and (ii) also in a zone, on underneath crossing patterns, the receiver must settle down the pattern in the soft spot rather than continuing across the field (these are extremely simplistic examples). I went to the Jets game, and there must've been at least 6-8 examples of different sight adjustments made by Lindley and primarily Floyd. It made Lindley look ridiculously bad, but the mistakes were mental, not physical (other than his horrible pick). This happens with rookies.

Third team QBs get almost no reps, and I doubt that anyone is putting in extra time at this point in the season with this record, but I don't know.