Preliminary extension talks have begun with Shipley

[football karma]

but in a season where there were plenty of injuries,

not really for the o-line

 

[Solar7]

not really for the o-line

Our starting right tackle played 0/16 games. Mason Cole started two games at guard as Pugh shifted to right tackle, and played significant snaps against PIT, CLE, SEA.

Gaillard wasn't even active as a backup for a single game.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I know you were. Sometimes you just turn the page for the betterment of the team.

Keim seems to sometimes be to loyal to “his guys” just like BA was & it’s the biggest fault of Jerry Jones too. I just don’t get it. You draft 2 centers (1 high) & yet you can’t play either over a dime a dozen type player in Shipley. It’s freakin maddening

The offensive line was ranked No. 10 in the NFL for ESPN’s Pass-Block Win Rate, as Murray’s decision-making in the backfield was oftentimes more responsible for sacks than his blockers. A.Q. Shipley finished fifth among centers, winning 95% of his matchups.

 

[wa52lz]

...How can you call him a win? At least one poster has said they'd be comfortable with him starting next year.

He's a complete enigma. We have nothing to imply he's good, nothing to imply he's bad, but in a season where there were plenty of injuries, he was inactive the whole time, so claiming he's going to do anything is blind hope.

I think the fact that they kept Galliard on the active roster all year is a good indication that there is talent/potential there that would interest other teams as well. Keeping him away from other teams has to have been the only reason he was on the active roster and a healthy scratch. Even if he doesn't pan out, he was pick #179, hard to hold that guy not working out against any GM. Hardly a swing and miss for Keim.

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[Solar7]

I think the fact that they kept Galliard on the active roster all year is a good indication that there is talent/potential there that would interest other teams as well. Keeping him away from other teams has to have been the only reason he was on the active roster and a healthy scratch. Even if he doesn't pan out, he was pick #179, hard to hold that guy not working out against any GM. Hardly a swing and miss for Keim.

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Sure, not a bad pick, not a good pick. Just nothing to count on. We had another thread where someone said they'd be happy with Gaillard as the starter next year.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cole started his rookie season and didn't embarrass himself. He was the swing guard with a couple of starts and flipping between LG and RG during games and we didn't notice. I would hardly call that a failure.

Keim has several real misses at OL, Cole isn't one of them.

You take a dude in the third round, he starts a year (and I believe I recall him grading out poorly), and then he can’t beat out Shipley the next and you’re resigning Shipley instead of handing over the reigns to the third rounder with a year of starting experience in his third season? Yeah I’d call that a miss. You’re just using bluto standards of comparisons.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think the fact that they kept Galliard on the active roster all year is a good indication that there is talent/potential there that would interest other teams as well. Keeping him away from other teams has to have been the only reason he was on the active roster and a healthy scratch. Even if he doesn't pan out, he was pick #179, hard to hold that guy not working out against any GM. Hardly a swing and miss for Keim.

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There are big misses (Reddick) and small misses. Every draft pick has value. Some more than others. And you have a finite amount of picks with which to work. So every pick is an opportunity to improve the team. When a pick fails to do so, it’s a miss. Plain and simple.

 

[Solar7]

You take a dude in the third round, he starts a year (and I believe I recall him grading out poorly), and then he can’t beat out Shipley the next and you’re resigning Shipley instead of handing over the reigns to the third rounder with a year of starting experience in his third season? Yeah I’d call that a miss. You’re just using bluto standards of comparisons.

This is the biggest thing about that pick. Cole will be functionally off of the roster because of complete mismanagement. I don't think anyone would say that the development of young offensive linemen comes with stealing away their snaps with the starting QB and then moving him to another position midseason.

Cole, Boehm, etc. - Bluto doesn't want to draft guys his coaches want to develop.

(Ouchie, I hope you don't mind me joining the #blutobandwagon.)

 

[wa52lz]

There are big misses (Reddick) and small misses. Every draft pick has value. Some more than others. And you have a finite amount of picks with which to work. So every pick is an opportunity to improve the team. When a pick fails to do so, it’s a miss. Plain and simple.

Understood, but calling #179 a miss after one season where he was on the active roster the entire year is a little premature.

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[Solar7]

Understood, but calling #179 a miss after one season where he was on the active roster the entire year is a little premature.

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When he's part of the 3rd-4th consecutive barely contributing draft class, you've gotta feel different. It's fine if we don't call him a miss, but he sure as hell isn't a win, and almost no one we've drafted in four years has been a win. In fact, all of the ones we still have, we argue about constantly.

 

[wa52lz]

This is the biggest thing about that pick. Cole will be functionally off of the roster because of complete mismanagement. I don't think anyone would say that the development of young offensive linemen comes with stealing away their snaps with the starting QB and then moving him to another position midseason.

Cole, Boehm, etc. - Bluto doesn't want to draft guys his coaches want to develop.

(Ouchie, I hope you don't mind me joining the #blutobandwagon.)

Why so sure Cole doesn't make the roster next year? They've been getting him snaps every game the last four weeks at both guard spots and center.

Week 14- Sweezy and Cole (26 snaps total) split time at right guard. Cole had two other snaps as a tackle eligible. One time, he even lined up wide.

Week 15-Based on comments by Kliff Kingsbury, there were no injuries. Cole was playing because Kingsbury was trying to get him snaps and keep his starters fresh this time of year. He got two snaps at center, seven at right guard, 11 at left guard and came in as an eligible receiver once.

Week 16- Cole continues to get worked in a little bit. It isn’t because of injuries. He got five snaps at center, four at right guard and three at left guard

Week 17 isn't available that I've seen.

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[wa52lz]

When he's part of the 3rd-4th consecutive barely contributing draft class, you've gotta feel different. It's fine if we don't call him a miss, but he sure as hell isn't a win, and almost no one we've drafted in four years has been a win. In fact, all of the ones we still have, we argue about constantly.

I understand you guys dislike Keim and I agree his drafts havnt been great, but still doesn't mean guys like Cole and Gaillard are misses. Consensus seems to be Kuglar is a good oline coach. I don't think it's a crazy assumption that him seeing potential/talent played in to Cole getting snaps the last four weeks and Gaillard being kept in the roster all year.

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[Solar7]

Why so sure Cole doesn't make the roster next year? They've been getting him snaps every game the last four weeks at both guard spots and center.

Week 14- Sweezy and Cole (26 snaps total) split time at right guard. Cole had two other snaps as a tackle eligible. One time, he even lined up wide.

Week 15-Based on comments by Kliff Kingsbury, there were no injuries. Cole was playing because Kingsbury was trying to get him snaps and keep his starters fresh this time of year. He got two snaps at center, seven at right guard, 11 at left guard and came in as an eligible receiver once.

Week 16- Cole continues to get worked in a little bit. It isn’t because of injuries. He got five snaps at center, four at right guard and three at left guard

Week 17 isn't available that I've seen.

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Sorry, Cole will be off the roster by the time Shipley leaves. Should have been more clear. Barring a major change in his career path, Shipley has his job.

I understand you guys dislike Keim and I agree his drafts havnt been great, but still doesn't mean guys like Cole and Gaillard are misses. Consensus seems to be Kuglar is a good oline coach. I don't think it's a crazy assumption that him seeing potential/talent played in to Cole getting snaps the last four weeks and Gaillard being kept in the roster all year.

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They're misses because they aren't starting players. Many aren't even rotational players. Keim has drafted about 5 starting players on our roster, and that's if you count combined spots like the Thompson Twins at safety. We're the 2nd worst in the league. If your early picks are just consistently backups, you're always overpaying for players, and will find yourself in cap hell, like we are this year. Some teams will see nearly 50% or more of their starters coming from the draft, we'll see next to none. $$$ down the drain.

 

[JosiahLee]

With different coaching staffs as well. Clearly he is doing something right even if he is less that spectacular.

And he’s obviously earned the respect of his teammates as he was voted captain this season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

This is the biggest thing about that pick. Cole will be functionally off of the roster because of complete mismanagement. I don't think anyone would say that the development of young offensive linemen comes with stealing away their snaps with the starting QB and then moving him to another position midseason.

Cole, Boehm, etc. - Bluto doesn't want to draft guys his coaches want to develop.

(Ouchie, I hope you don't mind me joining the #blutobandwagon.)

Ouch doesn't get credit for Bluto.

#CheeseRules

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Huh, the assumption is that since Cole may not win the starting C position over Shipley next year, it is a failed pick, even though he is our primary backup at three interior positions and means he will start games if any of those 3 starters are injured.

That doesn't allow for Cole to become a starter at either guard position either in that perspective. What if Cole becomes a solid starter at guard by year 4 and just is the swing backup next year again? Is that failure or success?

 

[Solar7]

Huh, the assumption is that since Cole may not win the starting C position over Shipley next year, it is a failed pick, even though he is our primary backup at three interior positions and means he will start games if any of those 3 starters are injured.

That doesn't allow for Cole to become a starter at either guard position either in that perspective. What if Cole becomes a solid starter at guard by year 4 and just is the swing backup next year again? Is that failure or success?

I personally deem it failure. The coaching staff doesn't seem to trust him enough to start, so the majority of his rookie contract will be him riding the pine.

Early 3rd round picks are supposed to start or at least compete to start.

 

[b8rtm8nn]

I personally deem it failure. The coaching staff doesn't seem to trust him enough to start, so the majority of his rookie contract will be him riding the pine.

Early 3rd round picks are supposed to start or at least compete to start.

Cole was pick 97, compensatory pick, so after the normal 32 third round picks. I get that some would like him to be a solid starter NOW, but I am just looking at Boehm, Toner, Holden, Watford, Cooper and saying Cole is doing ok so far and the others are the failures of Keim.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is the biggest thing about that pick. Cole will be functionally off of the roster because of complete mismanagement. I don't think anyone would say that the development of young offensive linemen comes with stealing away their snaps with the starting QB and then moving him to another position midseason.

Cole, Boehm, etc. - Bluto doesn't want to draft guys his coaches want to develop.

(Ouchie, I hope you don't mind me joining the #blutobandwagon.)

Bluto came from cheese. And the mire the merrier.

#firebluto

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Understood, but calling #179 a miss after one season where he was on the active roster the entire year is a little premature.

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That wasn’t the context of my comment. I said that resigning an elderly underwhelming Shipley can be taken as an indictment of galliards “progress” (or apparent lack thereof).

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Bluto came from cheese. And the mire the merrier.

#firebluto

Just seems like such a waste of energy. Dude's not going anywhere...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Cole was pick 97, compensatory pick, so after the normal 32 third round picks. I get that some would like him to be a solid starter NOW, but I am just looking at Boehm, Toner, Holden, Watford, Cooper and saying Cole is doing ok so far and the others are the failures of Keim.

Ugh, again, outperforming keims terrible track record should not be the litmus test.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Huh, the assumption is that since Cole may not win the starting C position over Shipley next year, it is a failed pick, even though he is our primary backup at three interior positions and means he will start games if any of those 3 starters are injured.

That doesn't allow for Cole to become a starter at either guard position either in that perspective. What if Cole becomes a solid starter at guard by year 4 and just is the swing backup next year again? Is that failure or success?

The best teams identify and utilize their talent during their rookie contracts to leverage capspace.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Just seems like such a waste of energy. Dude's not going anywhere...

energy is minimal and cathartic.

firebluto.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I personally deem it failure. The coaching staff doesn't seem to trust him enough to start, so the majority of his rookie contract will be him riding the pine.

Early 3rd round picks are supposed to start or at least compete to start.

The O-line coaches job is to train and select the top 5 week to week. That Cole can't displace 3 experienced interior lineman at this point is hardly reason to wring one's hands. He has an important function and we'll see where he fits in seasons to come.