Playoffs 2010: Western Conf Finals, Game 5 – Suns At Lakers Game Thread

[Covert Rain]

If Amare had 6 more rebounds, the Lakers don't get a RIDICULOUS 19 offensive rebounds which is the only reason they were beating us because they were struggling with their shooting at 41%.

Are you math challenged? How does Amare getting 6 more rebounds prevent all 19?

The question should be...are you serious?

Dumbest post of the day. 6 rebounds in a game where we're outrebounded by 9 would have been HUGE.

So....your saying that by Amare securing 6 more rebounds the following is true:

On every rebound, the Suns would have gone down and scored.

On every rebound, the Lakers had no shot of stopping the Suns and coming down and scoring anyway?

Give me a break. If the Suns bench showed up in the 1st half, those rebounds wouldn't have mattered. If JRich scores at least 10 more points, those rebounds wouldn't have mattered. If the Suns had 10 fewer turnovers that resulted in 10 fewer Laker points off of those turnovers....those rebounds wouldn't matter.

It was all of those things combined that caused this loss....not just Amare's rebounding.

But you've got one thing right cly... Amare is like Karl Malone in one respect. When the pressure's on... he's not. But at least Malone still played D and rebounded like a mother no matter what was going on with his O.

I think you got your posters wrong.

 

[Chaplin]

Look, it's pretty simple. We were 2 rebounds by Amare, or a made 3-pointer by Channing, or 2 made free throws from Nash, away from winning that game. It sucks, but it is what it is. We came back from 18 down in LA. If that doesn't give you some hope, than nothing does.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are you math challenged? How does Amare getting 6 more rebounds prevent all 19?

huh? I said they wouldn't get 19. I didn't say they'd get ZERO. The above is a laughable attempt to paint my argument as ridiculous as yours is. Try harder.

The question should be...are you serious?

So....your saying that by Amare securing 6 more rebounds the following is true:

On every rebound, the Suns would have gone down and scored.

On every rebound, the Lakers had no shot of stopping the Suns and coming down and scoring anyway?

well, you tried harder and went straight from laughable to retardedom. congrats.

you're the one who said Amare getting another 6 rebounds wouldn't have made a difference, which is beyond stupid and your above arguments only make you look worse.

Superstars win big games... one of our showed up. The other one, for the third straight game in LA crapped the bed. That's the biggest reason we lost, plain and simple.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think you got your posters wrong.

Lol. I KNEW that even though I specifically made the Malone-Amare comment toward Cly by DIRECTLY saying "Hey Cly", you STILL probably needed a bigger disclaimer saying 'HEY DAREN, EVEN THOUGH I SPECIFICALLY SAID "HEY CLY" BEFORE TALKING ABOUT THE AMARE-MALONE COMPARISON, THIS PART IS FOR CLY."

My bad on thinking you're reading comprehension could tell you that part was directed at someone else... you know... CLY... and not you.

 

[Covert Rain]

huh? I said they wouldn't get 19. I didn't say they'd get ZERO. The above is a laughable attempt to paint my argument as ridiculous as yours is. Try harder.

The question should be...are you serious?

Don't really have to try when there was no substance to that post whatsoever. No effort required. At least you seem to indicate your argument is ridiculous. It's a step in the right direction.

you're the one who said Amare getting another 6 rebounds wouldn't have made a difference, which is beyond stupid and your above arguments only make you look worse.

Actually what I said was that was not the sole reason we lost the game. If you read the entire thread I acknowledged that had an impact. What I was saying is that him getting 6 more rebounds alone would not have guaranteed a victory. It was a SUM of bad play at times by the team.

So you commenting on something I didn't say speaks to your "tardism" not mine. Not to mention you were unaware of who you were commenting to. You say after the fact you were not addressing me even though the only person you quoted was me. I guess it's possible but I am suspect.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Superstars win big games... one of our showed up. The other one, for the third straight game in LA crapped the bed. That's the biggest reason we lost, plain and simple.

Again, many of you have said Amare is not a Superstar. Are you saying he is? Because I am saying he is not.

Oh and damn that Amare for all 15 turnovers....damn that Amare for our lack of bench production the 1st half...damn that Amare for the defensive play of all our other players in LA...Damn that Amare for preventing others on our team from rebounding.

What was I thinking....your right....it's all on Amare just like it was all on Marion in the past.

Thanks for setting me straight...I forgot that objectivity had no place in this forum.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you commenting on something I didn't say speaks to your "tardism" not mine. Not to mention you were unaware of who you were commenting to. You say after the fact you were not addressing me even though the only person you quoted was me. I guess it's possible but I am suspect.

you guess it's possible? Dude, I SPECIFICALLY said "hey cly". Who the hell else would I be talking to there? The guy has the Amare-Malone comparison in his sig and NO ONE else (not even you) is dumb enough to make that comparison. You can suspect all you want but it's there in black and white. It IS possible to respond to two people at once in one post. Suspect. Come on dude.

And I ain't even gonna respond to the rest of your drivel after you put words into my mouth that somehow amare getting 6 more boards would mean the Lakers wouldn't have gotten ANY. You lost me right there which is why I called you a ******. An over-reaction on my part, but putting arguments into people's mouth as dumb as that is incredibly irksome.

 

[Covert Rain]

And I ain't even gonna respond to the rest of your drivel after you put words into my mouth that somehow amare getting 6 more boards would mean the Lakers wouldn't have gotten ANY. You lost me right there which is why I called you a ******. An over-reaction on my part, but putting arguments into people's mouth as dumb as that is incredibly irksome.

I put words into your mouth? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Look, it's pretty simple. We were 2 rebounds by Amare, or a made 3-pointer by Channing, or 2 made free throws from Nash, away from winning that game. It sucks, but it is what it is. We came back from 18 down in LA. If that doesn't give you some hope, than nothing does.

I think the reason that people are so bummed is because it's just tough to come back from a kick to the nuts like that. Can this team do it? If they've shown us anything this season it's that they are probably the most resilient group of Suns we've seen in 17 years and that gives me some hope but it always seems that in any series as close as this, the team who gets the miracle win usually ends up winning the series for whatever reason... likely because when you have a shot to win on the opponents home court, you likely don't get another one.

But, I'm packing my bags right now and throwing down another 250, headed to Game 6 tomorrow night! Let's go Suns!

(Man, if we lose that game... that'll mean I will have blown 400 bucks on two crushing series losses)

 

[Cheesebeef]

I put words into your mouth? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

are you really trying to tell me that when I said "if Amare got 6 more boards, the Lakers wouldn't have gotten 19 rebounds" and then you responding that my argument was "The Lakers wouldn't have gotten ANY offensive rebounds if Amare 6 more rebounds" WASN'T putting words into my mouth? Come on man.

 

[Covert Rain]

Give me a break Daren about the bench, those guys AREN'T supposed to stuff the stats thats why their bench players geesh. You expect the bench to play like superstars but don't expect the self proclaimed superstar to show up?

Where did I say that? Ofcourse Amare should show up but so should the rest of the team. Where has Nash's scoring been until now?

In terms of the bench...what I said was contribute. If our bench had put up some points in the first half we wouldn't have spent the next 3 quarters digging our selves out of a hole. Nobody said they had to player like Superstars. The just have to do their jobs. When your bench lays close to a goose egg in a half....I would say it's safe to say they didn't do their job.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I put words into your mouth? Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.

and I gotta tell you, I looked back at our discussion... where did I put words into your mouth?

You said this:
"If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game."

And I found that to be ridiculous. So, where did I put words into your mouth like you did re: "The Lakers would have gotten ZERO offensive rebounds" tripe or this garbage:

"So....your saying that by Amare securing 6 more rebounds the following is true:

On every rebound, the Suns would have gone down and scored.

On every rebound, the Lakers had no shot of stopping the Suns and coming down and scoring anyway?"

"So, you're saying"... I mean, you're LITERALLY putting words into my mouth up there.

 

[Covert Rain]

and I gotta tell you, I looked back at our discussion... where did I put words into your mouth?

You said this:
"If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game."

And I found that to be ridiculous. So, where did I put words into your mouth like you did re: "The Lakers would have gotten ZERO offensive rebounds" tripe or this garbage:

"So....your saying that by Amare securing 6 more rebounds the following is true:

On every rebound, the Suns would have gone down and scored.

On every rebound, the Lakers had no shot of stopping the Suns and coming down and scoring anyway?"

"So, you're saying"... I mean, you're LITERALLY putting words into my mouth up there.

Look harder. You indicated that my stance was that if Amare got 6 more rebounds it would not have made any difference. When in fact that was taken out of context over the course of the discussion. That in fact, is putting words into my mouth.

I never indicated that Amare getting any more rebounds would not have made in impact. I was specifically responded to people saying Amare was the sole reason we lost which is total and complete B.S.

What if Nash had not missed FT?

What if the bench made an appearance in the 1st half?

What if the bench showed up in the other games in L.A?

What if we played better defense?

What if we didn't turn the ball over as much?

What if others helped on the boards?

What if Lopez was even competent?

What if Amare had 6 more rebounds?

What if Dragic/Barbosa contributed?

Do you see where I am going with this? There is a ton of what if scenarios about this game that could have made the difference between winning or losing. My contention is that not one of these examples above is the sole contributor to losing this game or the other games in L.A.

People who are pinning these losses just on Amare is ridiculous.

If you want to argue his rebounding was a factor....I agree.

If you want to argue he is not a superstar....I agree.

If you want to argue he doesn't deserve a max contract....that's debatable.

If you want to argue that if he did rebound better it would give us a better chance...I agree.

If you want to bash Amare because of his mouth and high regard for himself isn't reality...then fine.

If you want to blame these losses solely on Amare...complete and total B.S.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Look harder. You indicated that my stance was that if Amare got 6 more rebounds it would not have made any difference. When in fact that was taken out of context over the course of the discussion. That in fact, is putting words into my mouth.

WHAT? Again, YOUR WORDS:

""If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game."

This is YOUR statement, a statement that I completely disagreed with because even with everything else that went wrong, I STILL believe that Amare had played well and gotten 10 boards, we probably win the game. How that is in some way putting words into your mouth is beyond me.

I never indicated that Amare getting any more rebounds would not have made in impact.

"If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game."

I'm sorry it couldn't be any more clear here... you've said that a lot of crap went wrong, but then say Amare getting more rebounds WOULDN'T HAVE MATTERED. How can you say you never indicated him getting more rebounds wouldn't have made an impact when you literally say "If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the crap going wrong"?

Again, I don't think Amare was the sole reason we lost, he was just the biggest reason and play or lack thereof has been the ONLY consistent thing we've seen in LA.

 

[Covert Rain]

WHAT? Again, YOUR WORDS:

""If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game."

This is YOUR statement, a statement that I completely disagreed with because even with everything else that went wrong, I STILL believe that Amare had played well and gotten 10 boards, we probably win the game. How that is in some way putting words into your mouth is beyond me.

Again...you took what I said out of context. It was a continuation of several posts. I could probably cherry pick a couple sentences out of your posts and do the same thing.

Your response was:

"are you SERIOUS? If Amare had 6 more rebounds, the Lakers don't get a RIDICULOUS 19 offensive rebounds"

On what planet does that equate to what I said? My comments didn't infer that we would have given up the same amount of offensive rebounds. My comment was strictly pertaining to the outcome of the game...not a rebounding stat line.

Again, I don't think Amare was the sole reason we lost, he was just the biggest reason and play or lack thereof has been the ONLY consistent thing we've seen in LA.

Well your entitled to that opinion. I don't think a whole 6 rebounds was any more important then most of the other reasons I already posted. When I look at the big picture of all the things the Suns did wrong in those games in L.A. it's not even close to being the main reason IMO.

 

[jagu]

I think you need to take off the Amare goggles Daren.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think you need to take off the Amare goggles Daren.

I think you need to put the objective goggles on.

I know Amare's shortcomings. I also know the rest of the teams as well. Because I don't chose to put it all on one players shoulders proves that.

Nobody on this forum has been more critical of Amare or Nash this season when they have deserved it. I was one of the ones for trading Amare at the deadline as long as we got something useful in return.

Sort of hard to imagine having Amare goggles on while support they trade him.

I just chose not to give a free pass to the rest of this team just because Amare is an easy target (and deservedly so).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your response was:

"are you SERIOUS? If Amare had 6 more rebounds, the Lakers don't get a RIDICULOUS 19 offensive rebounds"

On what planet does that equate to what I said? My comments didn't infer that we would have given up the same amount of offensive rebounds. My comment was strictly pertaining to the outcome of the game...not a rebounding stat line.

Your comment was it wouldn't make a differnce and I was showing how I thought it WOULD make a difference. That's MY argument. Not yours. And I think rebounding is where we lost this game. Thus my comment above.

Again, are you going to tell me where I said Amare's rebounding would have limited the Lakers to ZERO offensive rebounds or will you just continue to ignore the ridiculous crap you were saying earlier about my arguments?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If Amare had 10 rebounds it wouldn't have mattered with all the other crap that went wrong in this game.

i disagree. if amare had even had one more defensive rebound that was an offensive rebound for the lakers it may have stopped a score of theirs (minus 2 points) and would have gotten us into transition (possible plus 2 points). that's a potential 4 point swing from one rebound. may have been difference in game. if amare had 6 more rebounds i think it WOULD have DEFINITELY impacted game with such a small margin.

 

[Covert Rain]

Your comment was it wouldn't make a differnce and I was showing how I thought it WOULD make a difference. That's MY argument. Not yours. And I think rebounding is where we lost this game. Thus my comment above.

My argument was that it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome of the game. Not that it wouldn't make a difference.

Again, are you going to tell me where I said Amare's rebounding would have limited the Lakers to ZERO offensive rebounds or will you just continue to ignore the ridiculous crap you were saying earlier about my arguments?

I was being facetious on my part because you said the Lakers would have not gotten 19 offensive rebounds. The inference on your part was it would have made a huge impact on that number. Obviously if Amare gets 6 more rebounds that # is still 13. You were obviously trying to be dramatic about that statement to make a point..hence my response.

 

[Suns_fan69]

The Lakers had 21 second chance point from their 19 offensive rebounds. That's more than a point per rebound. If the team in general had 6 more defensive rebounds, we win the game; doesn't matter if it was Amare, Lopez or Steve Nash.

 

[Covert Rain]

The Lakers had 21 second chance point from their 19 offensive rebounds. That's more than a point per rebound. If the team in general had 6 more defensive rebounds, we win the game; doesn't matter if it was Amare, Lopez or Steve Nash.

Factor in the points we gave up on turnovers. The missed free throws. Any of those other areas including rebounds......had we just done a little better in each area...we win.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Factor in the points we gave up on turnovers. The missed free throws. Any of those other areas including rebounds......had we just done a little better in each area...we win.

right, if we had just done a little better in ANY of the areas we likely win. that means if amare gets his AVERAGE amount of rebounds we likely win. in other words, if he gets 6 more rebounds there is a VERY HIGH LIKELIHOOD WE WIN. how does that not impact the outcome of the game????

 

[Covert Rain]

right, if we had just done a little better in ANY of the areas we likely win. that means if amare gets his AVERAGE amount of rebounds we likely win. in other words, if he gets 6 more rebounds there is a VERY HIGH LIKELIHOOD WE WIN. how does that not impact the outcome of the game????

Because eliminated one category of mistakes is not very realistic. It's more realistic to believe that had we played a little better overall as a team, that would have changed the outcome.

That would be like me assuming we could have gotten 0 turnovers versus the 15. Not very likely.

Had we had say 5 less turnovers, hit a few more free throws and gotten a few more rebounds as a team that might have made the difference.

Like I posted above 6 more rebounds could have resulted in 0 points. There is no way to know that.

Improve the overall team play...and it increases the odds. Then something could have happened. Just my opinion.

 

[ninous26]

My name is Ninous, and I am checking in here so I can be a part of this epic win for the suns in this game.

Lets go suns! If only those 3's start falling.. I have faith, I have hope, I believe!

Ugh. So close.. What an emotional roller coaster.. Went from screaming my ass off when J rich banked the 3 to dead silent..

Anyone else had to go outside and sit on the swing alone for about 20 minutes? I did.. lol

I mean, I'd love to give credit where its due but this is such a fluke buzzer beater.. Since when does kobe ever air ball a shot? Then Ron artest comes from now where and take the ugliest shot in the game and makes it..

Oh well, it wasn't our game.. I still have faith, hope, and I still believe.. I called it before it started.. Suns in 7 games. Lets hope they can live up to that.

Keep your heads up guys.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Because eliminated one category of mistakes is not very realistic. It's more realistic to believe that had we played a little better overall as a team, that would have changed the outcome.

That would be like me assuming we could have gotten 0 turnovers versus the 15. Not very likely.

Nobody is making that argument though.The reason this started was because you hypothesized that even if Amare pulled in 6 more boards we would have still lost and that we are saying that is just plain wrong.