OT: other games 10-22-23

Stout

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You need two great tackles now. The days of it being LT only are long over.

The current top 10 NFL wide receivers are a 5th round pick, a 2nd round pick, a 5th round pick, Ja'marr Chase, a 3rd round pick, a 3rd round pick, a 2nd round pick, a 4th round pick, Brandon Aiyuk and a 6th round pick. And Aiyuk was taken in the 20's.

You can't say the same thing about the best tackles in the league.

I don't think there is good value in high pick WR's and more. It's becoming like high pick RB's.

I would take Trent Williams all day, every day over any WR in the NFL.
We simply disagree in philosophy. It seems more you'd take a 2nd Trent Williams than you would any WR in the NFL, because by your rationale you need two great tackles. I would take a top WR over a second tackle ten days out of ten.
 

kerouac9

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We simply disagree in philosophy. It seems more you'd take a 2nd Trent Williams than you would any WR in the NFL, because by your rationale you need two great tackles. I would take a top WR over a second tackle ten days out of ten.
If you have one Trent Williams (or Joe Thomas), you don't need a second one. A truly elite tackle means that you're always blocking three or four rushers with four blockers.

We don't have that right now, and I don't project PJJ as a Joe Thomas-level player. If the top OTs in this class project at that level, it becomes extremely tempting to add them in.
 

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We simply disagree in philosophy. It seems more you'd take a 2nd Trent Williams than you would any WR in the NFL, because by your rationale you need two great tackles. I would take a top WR over a second tackle ten days out of ten.

I'd take a Trent Williams over a Deandre Hopkins any day but...

I also think MHJ is overhyped. They scheme him open a lot at Ohio rather than him winning with elite route running. I don't see much difference between him and Chris Olave. I don't think he's as good as Ja'Marr Chase coming out. I think if his name is Drake Olugukan instead of Marvin Harrison Jnr the hype is less.

Now that isn't to say MHJ isn't great. He has superb hands, he runs smooth routes, he's tall and highpoints well, and he's in a system that runs NFL concepts. He's going to be a very good WR. But I don't think he has elite speed and I don't think he's going to be an elite tester. I don't think he's going to be the best WR to come out of college in the last 5 years.

But mainly, and I may get killed for this, I don't think he offers much over what Mike Wilson can give us when he has a competent quarterback. I think Wilson can run routes just as well, I think he has similar great hands, I think he can do much of the things Harrison can do. I think Harrison may be a little faster and is a little taller, but I don't think much in it.

I also don't think he gets drafted top 3 as some people think. I think he goes in the 5-8 range.
 

Stout

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If you have one Trent Williams (or Joe Thomas), you don't need a second one. A truly elite tackle means that you're always blocking three or four rushers with four blockers.

We don't have that right now, and I don't project PJJ as a Joe Thomas-level player. If the top OTs in this class project at that level, it becomes extremely tempting to add them in.
Over MHJ, with our current roster and the likelihood we don't even have Hollywood?
 

Stout

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I'd take a Trent Williams over a Deandre Hopkins any day but...

I also think MHJ is overhyped. They scheme him open a lot at Ohio rather than him winning with elite route running. I don't see much difference between him and Chris Olave. I don't think he's as good as Ja'Marr Chase coming out. I think if his name is Drake Olugukan instead of Marvin Harrison Jnr the hype is less.

Now that isn't to say MHJ isn't great. He has superb hands, he runs smooth routes, he's tall and highpoints well, and he's in a system that runs NFL concepts. He's going to be a very good WR. But I don't think he has elite speed and I don't think he's going to be an elite tester. I don't think he's going to be the best WR to come out of college in the last 5 years.

But mainly, and I may get killed for this, I don't think he offers much over what Mike Wilson can give us when he has a competent quarterback. I think Wilson can run routes just as well, I think he has similar great hands, I think he can do much of the things Harrison can do. I think Harrison may be a little faster and is a little taller, but I don't think much in it.

I also don't think he gets drafted top 3 as some people think. I think he goes in the 5-8 range.
Yeah...you love to minimize the other side of any argument to try to prove you're right, but you're beyond left field with this take. Also pretty laughable trying to minimize MHJ as a WR prospect, with the sad attempt to tack on the "that's not to say he isn't great."

It is actually okay to agree with me in agreeing to disagree, you know :)
 

BritCard

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Yeah...you love to minimize the other side of any argument to try to prove you're right, but you're beyond left field with this take. Also pretty laughable trying to minimize MHJ as a WR prospect, with the sad attempt to tack on the "that's not to say he isn't great."

It is actually okay to agree with me in agreeing to disagree, you know :)

I'm doing no such thing, I think MHJ is getting overhyped. Everyone is talking about him like he's guaranteed Justin Jefferson. I think it's more likely he's Olave or Garrett Wilson.

But either way I'd take Trent Williams over Justin Jefferson anyway.
 

Stout

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I'm doing no such thing, I think MHJ is getting overhyped. Everyone is talking about him like he's guaranteed Justin Jefferson. I think it's more likely he's Olave or Garrett Wilson.

But either way I'd take Trent Williams over Justin Jefferson anyway.
I've seen him live and I think he's a monster of a prospect at the position, but I will take my own advice and not argue with you. Your opinion is just as valid as mine.
 

Garthshort

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I'd take a Trent Williams over a Deandre Hopkins any day but...

I also think MHJ is overhyped. They scheme him open a lot at Ohio rather than him winning with elite route running. I don't see much difference between him and Chris Olave. I don't think he's as good as Ja'Marr Chase coming out. I think if his name is Drake Olugukan instead of Marvin Harrison Jnr the hype is less.

Now that isn't to say MHJ isn't great. He has superb hands, he runs smooth routes, he's tall and highpoints well, and he's in a system that runs NFL concepts. He's going to be a very good WR. But I don't think he has elite speed and I don't think he's going to be an elite tester. I don't think he's going to be the best WR to come out of college in the last 5 years.

But mainly, and I may get killed for this, I don't think he offers much over what Mike Wilson can give us when he has a competent quarterback. I think Wilson can run routes just as well, I think he has similar great hands, I think he can do much of the things Harrison can do. I think Harrison may be a little faster and is a little taller, but I don't think much in it.

I also don't think he gets drafted top 3 as some people think. I think he goes in the 5-8 range.
We'll have a better idea of MHJ vs. MW once Kyler plays.
 

BritCard

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We'll have a better idea of MHJ vs. MW once Kyler plays.

I'm not expecting too much from Kyler this year. I would hope he's a step up from Dobbs, that's a low bar, but I'm not expecting miracles.

Mentally hard to come back to top form after an injury like that with no preseason and just a handful of practices.

I expect he will show glimpses rather than being consistent. Early on at least.
 

Garthshort

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Brit, I expect Kyler to be good when he's cleared to play. But still expect the team to lose most games he starts. Problems are more than just QB. But with our luck I can see Kyler with a great game, that ends up hurting our draft position. :)
 

Krangodnzr

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I'm doing no such thing, I think MHJ is getting overhyped. Everyone is talking about him like he's guaranteed Justin Jefferson. I think it's more likely he's Olave or Garrett Wilson.

But either way I'd take Trent Williams over Justin Jefferson anyway.
I think MHJs 80% projection is Chris Olave.

I would be okay with that.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Brit, I expect Kyler to be good when he's cleared to play. But still expect the team to lose most games he starts. Problems are more than just QB. But with our luck I can see Kyler with a great game, that ends up hurting our draft position. :)
This team likely has 4 wins, not 1, right now with slightly improved QB play...not even Kyler Murray play....just slightly better than Dobbs.
 

oaken1

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I love MHJ and just the idea of having a new Larry...

But... Fashanu and Newton in the first, then Keon Coleman at 34.... that's a draft I would be happy with.

Coleman is the biggest and fastest of the top WR prospects... only 6'3... but 227 pounds when the other guys gotta eat a big lunch to hit 210.
And he has clocked a 4.29 40.... dude is a slightly smaller Megatron.

Most of the top 10 are only 6 footers and we need bigger than that.
 

TheCardFan

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Keon Coleman at 34
Coleman is the biggest and fastest of the top WR prospects
And he has clocked a 4.29 40.... dude is a slightly smaller Megatron.

Precisely why he won't be there at #34.
He may not be there for our #1 pick from the Texans.
 

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