OT: Kyler Murray Debacle Thread

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This year you'll see my boy has heart

The lollipop gang followed the yellow brick road?

 

[DVontel]

Honestly, this thread title should change to “DaHilg vs Everybody one week, Crimson Warrior vs Everybody the next week”.

How could I forget 602 Native

 

[football karma]

we wont learn much on Kyler until the regular season, but my final hawt take on him and 2025

He has shown the "highs" -- and while getting more highs would be great, i think its more important that his "lows" are less deep and less frequent. This would put the Cardinals (all else being equal) in a really good spot offensively.

As an example: Of those last 7 games of the season, if 4 of his 8 picks had just been thrown away --- they probably win a couple more games.

I think late season football can require grind-kinda games to win. An example: the Rams made the NFC champ game (and were in it to the end) -- but they needed a late win vs the Cards where Stafford went 17/32 for 189. No TDs. But no INTs either.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

The lollipop gang followed the yellow brick road?

3/5

 

[daves]

Sure would be nice if, at some point in the last 6 years, we had been able to read an article like this about Murray.

Jayden Daniels spent the offseason scouting himself. It’s already paying off

Jayden Daniels’ mind is wired for improvement. Constantly. He’s always looking for another edge — a throw that needs to be sharper, a play that needs fine-tuning, a tendency that can be eliminated. He seeks betterment even when he’s just been crowned the best in his class after completing a historic rookie season.

...

His months-long self-scout and retooling produced noticeable changes as early as OTAs in May that have continued into training camp. Some are physical — he put on a few pounds of muscle. Many more are mechanical, meant to improve the finer parts of his game. And others are mental, the unquantifiable part of quarterbacking that Daniels has embraced.

“I’ve always felt he had real control of things, and we work at the line of scrimmage a lot and he’s really comfortable in that,” coach Dan Quinn said in June. “He was always somebody that really was on his details. What I’m seeing now is just the accuracy, the footwork, so more of his body mechanics that he wanted to emphasize. I see that coming through in his play.”

...

“My main focus was on how I can improve mechanically from Year 1 to Year 2,” Daniels told The Athletic in a recent interview. “… You kind of just see your tendencies and what you think some people will try to use against you going into the next season. So that’s something I learned from (Wagner).”

Daniels returned to California, where for years he’s worked with quarterback coaches Taylor Kelly and Ryan Porter. With Kelly, Daniels went through his own rookie year film to find tendencies that opponents could use against him.

Their broad goal was to calibrate the details of his play behind the line of scrimmage: his maneuvering in the pocket, keeping his eyes down the field instead of dropping them to the rush, breaking a would-be sack and maintaining control to extend plays.

They zeroed in on his footwork, an aspect of Daniels’ game that was already more developed than in many first-year quarterbacks.

...

“I think that’s always going to be the biggest piece, is fine-tuning the footwork,” Daniels said. “And obviously, another year in the system, I was more comfortable, so I could tie in different footwork with different concepts that I think Kliff (Kingsbury) would call just working that all offseason. … Just another year of understanding my body and understanding how to get certain throws off of different drops or different movements and how to still get the right throw if I’m throwing clean, if I have to move right or move left, and stuff like that on the run.”

...

When Daniels returned for a second training camp, Kingsbury noticed plenty more in his game, especially before the snap. The quarterback, Kingsbury has noted, is now seeing additional leverages and working his reads faster.

“(He’s) getting us into different things that maybe he wouldn’t have seen last year when it was moving a little bit faster for him,” Kingsbury said. “But you definitely see, particularly the protections, really taking pride in getting us slid the right way. And then a lot of the checks that we have in our offense, trying to get us into our best matchup, get us into our best pass play, best run play versus certain looks.”

 

[DaHilg]

Sure would be nice if, at some point in the last 6 years, we had been able to read an article like this about Murray.

Jayden Daniels spent the offseason scouting himself. It’s already paying off

I’d wager a sophomore slump.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sure would be nice if, at some point in the last 6 years, we had been able to read an article like this about Murray.

Jayden Daniels spent the offseason scouting himself. It’s already paying off

Complete speculation, but Kyler isn't wired this way. And in fairness to him, not many NFL QBs are. It is one of the things that separates professionals in the NFL. Kyler does the requisite work needed to be a QB in the NFL. I don't feel that is debatable. That said, he is not hyper critical of himself and obsessed with improvement like the best ones are. He doesn't take ownership in the way the best ones do.

 

[Chopper0080]

Sure would be nice if, at some point in the last 6 years, we had been able to read an article like this about Murray.

Jayden Daniels spent the offseason scouting himself. It’s already paying off

I am happy for some vindication for Kliff. He had his part in the AZ years, but his issues would have been easier to mitigate if given different partners.

 

[Stout]

Complete speculation, but Kyler isn't wired this way. And in fairness to him, not many NFL QBs are. It is one of the things that separates professionals in the NFL. Kyler does the requisite work needed to be a QB in the NFL. I don't feel that is debatable. That said, he is not hyper critical of himself and obsessed with improvement like the best ones are. He doesn't take ownership in the way the best ones do.

This. Absolutely this. What got lost in the noise of the reactions to the "I just see the field" comment is that no one is saying he is not putting in the minimum work. It's not a Jamarcus Russell scenario. The angst is and was over the fact that he not only doesn't put in the overtime or go the extra mile, but feels he doesn't need to. I don't think it would necessarily change much--he doesn't have the elite processing ability necessary to elevate his game too far--but it couldn't hurt.

 

[DVontel]

Kyler probably does put the extra work in & then some, but it’s just not enough due to his physical stature being too much of a disadvantage.

 

[602 Native]

This. Absolutely this. What got lost in the noise of the reactions to the "I just see the field" comment is that no one is saying he is not putting in the minimum work. It's not a Jamarcus Russell scenario. The angst is and was over the fact that he not only doesn't put in the overtime or go the extra mile, but feels he doesn't need to. I don't think it would necessarily change much--he doesn't have the elite processing ability necessary to elevate his game too far--but it couldn't hurt.

Thank you for completely speaking out of your butt.

Zero proof of any of this but continue to speculate.

 

[602 Native]

Complete speculation

Exactly

 

[602 Native]

Sure would be nice if, at some point in the last 6 years, we had been able to read an article like this about Murray.

Jayden Daniels spent the offseason scouting himself. It’s already paying off

Jayden better be praying that they resign TM otherwise it will be a very long season for him.

 

[Shane]

Jayden better be praying that they resign TM otherwise it will be a very long season for him.

He’s already off the pup list and practicing like normal. He’s going to play regardless.

 

[Chopper0080]

Exactly

It's informed speculation.

Kyler has not grown or developed significantly as he gained more experience in the league. There is an easy argument that he has declined from his peak in 2021. Some of that is on the team, but a lot of the growth that elevates top QBs is driven by those QBs individually. I think that is something in the league that mirrors most professions.

Kyler continues to say that he executes the plays called. He said that with Kliff and said it last year with Petzing. Top QBs tend to demand full control so that they are the ones making the decisions and choices. Maybe Kyler is hyper critical of himself and his game in private, but to the point of the Daniels article, he has never come across that way.

And again, it's these types of traits and mindsets that separate elite NFL QBs from the average NFL QBs. None of this means Kyler isn't a top 18 QB in the league. It just means he isn't wired to be an elite NFL QB, which few players are.

 

[Chopper0080]

Thank you for completely speaking out of your butt.

Zero proof of any of this but continue to speculate.

Honest question, how do you compare Kyler Murray and Cam Newton?

 

[BooksOrangePlanet]

Thank you for completely speaking out of your butt.

Zero proof of any of this but continue to speculate.

hey where'd you go the other day? you know - when we were talking about kyler throwing 8 picks in (and losing) 5 of our last 7 games - you kinda disappeared - we were worried

 

[Chopper0080]

Kyler probably does put the extra work in & then some, but it’s just not enough due to his physical stature being too much of a disadvantage.

The issue, IMO, is that Kyler doesn't seem to want to acknowledge his height is an issue, and hasn't seemed to spend time adjusting his game to account for it.

Brees was famous for playing on his tip toes at times to account for his height.

For me, this is where Kyler developing as a timing and rhythm QB would have helped him in his career.

 

[Stout]

Thank you for completely speaking out of your butt.

Zero proof of any of this but continue to speculate.

Okay, that's me done trying to be considerate and reconcile opinions. Back to just blasting the truth no matter how many homers cover their ears and go "Nananananana!"

 

[daves]

Complete speculation, but Kyler isn't wired this way. And in fairness to him, not many NFL QBs are. It is one of the things that separates professionals in the NFL. Kyler does the requisite work needed to be a QB in the NFL. I don't feel that is debatable. That said, he is not hyper critical of himself and obsessed with improvement like the best ones are. He doesn't take ownership in the way the best ones do.

Agreed - and sadly, this is why we see him failing to progress in his areas of weakness year after year, despite the fact that he has the physical ability to do so and loves to work out and throw the ball around with his teammates.

 

[Chopper0080]

Agreed - and sadly, this is why we see him failing to progress in his areas of weakness year after year, despite the fact that he has the physical ability to do so and loves to work out and throw the ball around with his teammates.

We all wanted a top 5 QB with our #1 pick. It's disappointing because that isn't what Kyler is. For all of the complaints tho, Kyler is an average NFL QB and that does count for something. I do think we have to keep that in mind.

 

[kerouac9]

We all wanted a top 5 QB with our #1 pick. It's disappointing because that isn't what Kyler is. For all of the complaints tho, Kyler is an average NFL QB and that does count for something. I do think we have to keep that in mind.

The disappointing thing is he keeps getting leap-frogged by younger players like Jordan Love, Marcus Stroud, and now Jayden Daniels. If Drake Maye makes the leap many are expecting, Bo Nix improves in his second season, and Cam Ward arrives fully formed, Kyler can easily slip out of the TOP 12 conversation.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The disappointing thing is he keeps getting leap-frogged by younger players like Jordan Love, Marcus Stroud, and now Jayden Daniels. If Drake Maye makes the leap many are expecting, Bo Nix improves in his second season, and Cam Ward arrives fully formed, Kyler can easily slip out of the TOP 12 conversation.

FWIW... which isn't much, ESPN already has Nix ranked ahead of Kyler. But they also have 3 QB's ranked lower than Kyler, where a strong argument can be made for all 3 being ranked ahead of him: Purdy, Herbert and Goff. And I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Stroud leapfrog Kyler this year as well.

Fantasy football draft rankings 2025: Quarterback

2025 fantasy football draft rankings from Matt Bowen, Mike Clay, Tristan H. Cockcroft, Daniel Dopp, Eric Karabell, Liz Loza, Eric Moody and Field Yates.

www.espn.com

 

[kerouac9]

FWIW... which isn't much, ESPN already has Nix ranked ahead of Kyler. But they also have 3 QB's ranked lower than Kyler, where a strong argument can be made for all 3 being ranked ahead of him: Purdy, Herbert and Goff. And I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Stroud leapfrog Kyler this year as well.

Fantasy football draft rankings 2025: Quarterback

2025 fantasy football draft rankings from Matt Bowen, Mike Clay, Tristan H. Cockcroft, Daniel Dopp, Eric Karabell, Liz Loza, Eric Moody and Field Yates.

www.espn.com

TBF, those are fantasy football rankings, and Kyler’s value is going to be inflated because of his promise as a rusher.

This list is a bit of a troll and also from January. Kyler is exactly 12:

The Ringer's QB Rankings

The Ringer’s 2023 NFL Quarterback Rankings feature Steven Ruiz’s film analysis, advanced passing stats, and attribute badges for every starter for all 32 NFL teams. The rankings will be updated weekly all throughout the 2023 NFL season starting Week 1 through the Super Bowl. It’s a quarterback...

nflrankings.theringer.com

I did a QB power rankings earlier in content szn; Kyler isn’t that low for me yet but…

 

[unseenaz]

The disappointing thing is he keeps getting leap-frogged by younger players like Jordan Love, Marcus Stroud, and now Jayden Daniels. If Drake Maye makes the leap many are expecting, Bo Nix improves in his second season, and Cam Ward arrives fully formed, Kyler can easily slip out of the TOP 12 conversation.

You're being too kind - he's currently in the range of top 15. If these rooks come on strong and 2nd year guys (Williams, Nix, Maye) leapfrog him, we're looking at a top 20 QB. Yikes.