Niners at Cardinals gameday thread 12-17-23

Chopper0080

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That’s the really disturbing part of Kyler right now. If Dobbs could find those guys in the first half of the season, what does it say about Kyler who’s making them seem like complete and utter ghosts?
It obviously isn't all on the WRs. Just tough to justify spending big money on a FA WR who Kyler may not have "chemistry" with. I need to spend FA dollars on players who don't depend on the inconsistent QB to be productive.
 

SoonerLou

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It obviously isn't all on the WRs. Just tough to justify spending big money on a FA WR who Kyler may not have "chemistry" with. I need to spend FA dollars on players who don't depend on the inconsistent QB to be productive.
TBF he had no problem finding Deandre Hopkins. And AJ Green struggled with Joe Burrow and suddenly has semi resurgence with Kyler in 2021.

And again its just two games with a rookie who hasnt practiced much lately.
 

football karma

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So was it a mistake not to re-sign Kirk?
i think in retrospect -- it was a mistake

for a team that hadnt drafted well, when you find a player who can play, maybe you try to keep him.

and while not as bad as drafting Nkemdiche so the team could let Calais Campbell go -- drafting Moore to replace Kirk hasnt worked either
 

kerouac9

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In retrospect, I'm actually prone to say yes. CK is a good receiver and smart too. I would kill for his level of consistency on this team.
If you think that we spent a second round pick on Rondale Moore and a first-round pick to acquire Hollywood Brown for two years, it seems like a complete catastrophe that we couldn't hang on to Christian Kirk.

Steve Keim was a dolt.
 

ajcardfan

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If you think that we spent a second round pick on Rondale Moore and a first-round pick to acquire Hollywood Brown for two years, it seems like a complete catastrophe that we couldn't hang on to Christian Kirk.

Steve Keim was a dolt.
Sure, everyone second guesses it now. But almost no one here wanted him extended before his last season and even fewer when he hit free agency. There were a lot of dry eyes.

People get too emotional thinking about a bad play, or game, or two. They forget big picture.
 

football karma

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Sure, everyone second guesses it now. But almost no one here wanted him extended before his last season and even fewer when he hit free agency. There were a lot of dry eyes.
true

but: Steve Keim was literally paid millions of dollars AND has the best information on hand to get these decisions correct -

think of the daisy chain had Keim extended Kirk a year prior to the 2021 season. At a minimum, the 2nd used on Rondale probably addresses a diff position. Possibly, the 1st used on Hollywood in 2022 is spent somewhere else

either or both moves would have the team in a better spot currently
 

ajcardfan

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true

but: Steve Keim was literally paid millions of dollars AND has the best information on hand to get these decisions correct -
I agree. We will see if Monti has a different philosophy when it comes to his draft picks. Right now, he seems all over the place. He got rid of a lot of young guys as well as vets. Yeah, "clean house, culture, yada yada". But I don't see much upgrade in the younger free agents he has brought in over those he bounced. Those guys could be coached too.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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That’s the really disturbing part of Kyler right now. If Dobbs could find those guys in the first half of the season, what does it say about Kyler who’s making them seem like complete and utter ghosts?
There’s no substantive metric to show that Hollywood or any other receiver was any better under Dobbs than Kyler. McBride of course has turned it up under Kyler vs Dobbs granting that Ertz is no longer around
 
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kerouac9

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There’s no substantive metric to show that Hollywood or any other receiver was any better under Dobbs than Kyler. McBride of course has turned it up under Kyler vs Dobbs of course granting that Ertz is no longer around
That's fair. Sample sizes are small for Hollywood (who's also injured) and Michael Wilson.

Dunno what's going on with Rondale Moore. He was getting about three rushing attempts per game before Kyler's return and has gotten three total since Kyler came back.
 

Krangodnzr

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Sure, everyone second guesses it now. But almost no one here wanted him extended before his last season and even fewer when he hit free agency. There were a lot of dry eyes.

People get too emotional thinking about a bad play, or game, or two. They forget big picture.
I was definitely a let Kirk walk guy, but I learned a valuable lesson with him.
 

Krangodnzr

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That's fair. Sample sizes are small for Hollywood (who's also injured) and Michael Wilson.

Dunno what's going on with Rondale Moore. He was getting about three rushing attempts per game before Kyler's return and has gotten three total since Kyler came back.
One of the craziest things watching Kyler play is how often he has a ten yard rushing game in front of him and he throws for a incompletion. If I'm Cardinals coaches, I'm teaching him to run every chance he gets.
 

kerouac9

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One of the craziest things watching Kyler play is how often he has a ten yard rushing game in front of him and he throws for a incompletion. If I'm Cardinals coaches, I'm teaching him to run every chance he gets.
I don't know if that's what he wants to do. I'm pretty sure he very much does not want to be Lamar Jackson -- who does do that.

The craziest thing about watching Kyler play is that he never makes rhythm throws. You never see him go 1-2-3-steps-ball's-out. It's like he doesn't start processing the play until he's out of his dropback.
 

Krangodnzr

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I don't know if that's what he wants to do. I'm pretty sure he very much does not want to be Lamar Jackson -- who does do that.

The craziest thing about watching Kyler play is that he never makes rhythm throws. You never see him go 1-2-3-steps-ball's-out. It's like he doesn't start processing the play until he's out of his dropback.
Eh I think his target should be 6-10 rushes per game. If he sees an opening for a good gain on early downs he should always take it.

Not all QBs are rhythm QBs and I think the offense needs to account for it.

If I'm Monti, I'm building a team that can play great defense and always run the ball. Make Kyler the icing on the cake, not the 100% focus of the offense. The Rams game is a perfect example of how not to call a game with Kyler Murray. The Cardinals should never have a game where Conner only gets 6 carries. The game got away when Petzing got impatient and started throwing constantly. Murray hasn't shown the ability lately to carry this team.
 

kerouac9

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Eh I think his target should be 6-10 rushes per game. If he sees an opening for a good gain on early downs he should always take it.

Not all QBs are rhythm QBs and I think the offense needs to account for it.

If I'm Monti, I'm building a team that can play great defense and always run the ball. Make Kyler the icing on the cake, not the 100% focus of the offense. The Rams game is a perfect example of how not to call a game with Kyler Murray. The Cardinals should never have a game where Conner only gets 6 carries. The game got away when Petzing got impatient and started throwing constantly. Murray hasn't shown the ability lately to carry this team.
Wanna know who was running the ball 6-10 times per game? Josh Dobbs!

Kyler is actually running it about six times per game, also. He's just not being as efficient as you'd like.
 

Krangodnzr

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Wanna know who was running the ball 6-10 times per game? Josh Dobbs!

Kyler is actually running it about six times per game, also. He's just not being as efficient as you'd like.
I don't think that two more good rushes would have been the difference in the Niners game, but it might have been the difference in the Texans game.
 

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The craziest thing about watching Kyler play is that he never makes rhythm throws. You never see him go 1-2-3-steps-ball's-out. It's like he doesn't start processing the play until he's out of his dropback.
I kinda assumed Kliff had a role in that, been saying for years Kyler doesn’t get many “easy” throws. I’m sure Kliff played a role but so too does Kyler it seems. I also think our WR’s are slow and immobile this year as well which plays a part for sure in 2023.
 

BirdGangThing

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Gannon - Petzing - or even Murray shouldn't try to set some set number on how many scrambles Murray takes per game

rushes sure - but not scrambles - as they can be a most beneficial powerful weapon against heavy blitzing and prevent defenses

Even if you're trying to stay in the pocket more - you just gotta bail sometimes
 

kerouac9

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I kinda assumed Kliff had a role in that, been saying for years Kyler doesn’t get many “easy” throws. I’m sure Kliff played a role but so too does Kyler it seems. I also think our WR’s are slow and immobile this year as well which plays a part for sure in 2023.

I don't think they're immobile as much as they're STIFF. Rondale doesn't seem very sudden into and out of his breaks. Hollywood has never been a guy who is going to juke someone out.

I think Michael Wilson is a precise route runner, and good timing can create separation. But if Kyler can't throw in-rhythm, it really damages Wilson's ability to make an impact, because he's not going to blow by anyone or body a lot of guys out of the play.
 

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