Murray may not run at Pro Day Today (3/13)

[Southpaw]

My god some of you people are nuts.

If any of you really believe after watching video of his games that he is not as fast as Wilson you should shut up and never talk about a draft prospect again.

If you can not clearly see on tape that Murray is fast as crap you're f'ng blind.

Same thing with his height, if he is actually 5'9 1/2 it changes absolutely nothing.

I am astonished at the level of hate he is receiving. I don't know where it is coming from. You guys act like we are trying to replace Tom Brady with Johnny Manziel and missing out on Lawrence Taylor to do it.

You all are crazy with hate.

Wow. Is he your cousin?

 

[Dr. Jones]

This is very Luka Doncic part 2 on the Suns board.

If you were not completely against even the concept of him being a good NBA player there were a contigent of people gaslighting that opinion.

I was for drafting Ayton (and still am) but people still got personal.

I have been saying this exact same thing for weeks now.

The future of the NBA is a player like Luka.
The future of the NFL is a player like Kyler.

Only difference is Ayton and Luka are actually closer to being a difference maker than Bosa or Kyler are. Play in and play out..... Unless it is LT coming off the edge.... An exceptional QB will win you so many more games than an OLB.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I doubt the Cards would do that.I don`t feel SK wants to take that kind of chance with a historically short QB

And I contend that this is his last shot at keeping his job and he will really be open to swinging for the fences.

 

[Proximo]

The point is nobody will EVER know how much is weight affects his height. Not running is a reflection that he believes it will adversely impact his timed speed.

Yes - I'm sure it does.

You missed my point. Once he is drafted he will play at whatever weight he played at in college and be just as fast. It may actually be 205 and he just did not feel the need to run because it could pretty much only negatively affect him.

Do you honestly think if he ran a 4.29 instead of a 4.4 it changes his draft stock at all? But if he ran a 4.5 there would be endless media BS about how he isn't actually that fast and the Vick comparisons need to end.

Not running is the smart thing to do considering how many people want to tear him down for the tiniest thing.

 

[NJCardFan]

So he wouldn't throw at the combine and won't run here. There are more red flags about this kid than at a Chinese parade.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

OK let me rephrase have you heard of any quarterback that was even remotely considered a high-end prospect that just bombed they’re throwing evil on a pro day? And if you can can you list them for me? I certainly can’t? It’s a completely scripted environment in their own home with receivers they been throwing two for at least a year or more....

Hell even Big Bens back up was reported as just killing it at his pro day last year... lol

Pro days are about throwing from different arm angles, timing the release, zip on the ball. It's about various speed times, strength and agility drills.

It's to arm your analytics staff with the information to make an informed decision. It's why his decision not to do the speed, strength, and agility drills is dumb

There is already a ton of game tape of how he plays on the field. Now you need to try to fathom how much further he can go beyond the tape

 

[Southpaw]

I agree that all he needs to show is 4.45 speed and you can defend taking him by stating that he is a premier athlete. I also don't understand what the hell he is doing and why is being advised this way.

He better run a 4.45 since he is a one read and run option Qb.

 

[Dr. Jones]

He better run a 4.45 since he is a one read and run option Qb.

You can see it on the tape since he was 15. The dude is Tarik Cohen with a rocket for a right arm and a 70% completion percentage.

Since he was 15!!!

 

[The Kraken]

Yes - I'm sure it does.

You missed my point. Once he is drafted he will play at whatever weight he played at in college and be just as fast. It may actually be 205 and he just did not feel the need to run because it could pretty much only negatively affect him.

Do you honestly think if he ran a 4.29 instead of a 4.4 it changes his draft stock at all? But if he ran a 4.5 there would be endless media BS about how he isn't actually that fast and the Vick comparisons need to end.

Not running is the smart thing to do considering how many people want to tear him down for the tiniest thing.

No it wouldn't, but I would be worried about a 185 lb, 5'10" QB holding up for a season...I would have rather he put on the weight and was slower and said he made the decision to ensure he could hold up over the stretch of an entire football season rather than running a 4.3/40...

The point is, he is billed as a QB who can extend plays by his pocket movement and ability to scramble...

If he isn't willing to run --ANY reasonable person would ask-- "why not?"...

To me, if he weighed 205ish and still ran a 4.6 I would have no problem at all with that.

 

[TJ]

I have been saying this exact same thing for weeks now.

The future of the NBA is a player like Luka.
The future of the NFL is a player like Kyler.

Only difference is Ayton and Luka are actually closer to being a difference maker than Bosa or Kyler are. Play in and play out..... Unless it is LT coming off the edge.... An exceptional QB will win you so many more games than an OLB.

Still fail to see how Kyler is the future of the position when the most successful young QBs are big, tall passers who predominantly play within the pocket and can take hits. People are hanging onto this claim that since Wilson has excelled, so can Murray. He’s not Wilson. He’ll likely never reach Wilson’s level.

 

[BW52]

Yes - I'm sure it does.

You missed my point. Once he is drafted he will play at whatever weight he played at in college and be just as fast. It may actually be 205 and he just did not feel the need to run because it could pretty much only negatively affect him.

Do you honestly think if he ran a 4.29 instead of a 4.4 it changes his draft stock at all? But if he ran a 4.5 there would be endless media BS about how he isn't actually that fast and the Vick comparisons need to end.

Not running is the smart thing to do considering how many people want to tear him down for the tiniest thing.

I see what you are saying but he just keeps giving people more ammunition and reason to doubt him.If he ran and didn`t do what everyone expected there would be some backlash but it would be over and done with and would not be hanging over his head.He should just do it and deal with it.

 

[BW52]

And I contend that this is his last shot at keeping his job and he will really be open to swinging for the fences.

I see it as SK having to get right and Bosa is the closer choice to success than Murray.

 

[Zeno]

Yes - I'm sure it does.

You missed my point. Once he is drafted he will play at whatever weight he played at in college and be just as fast. It may actually be 205 and he just did not feel the need to run because it could pretty much only negatively affect him.

Do you honestly think if he ran a 4.29 instead of a 4.4 it changes his draft stock at all? But if he ran a 4.5 there would be endless media BS about how he isn't actually that fast and the Vick comparisons need to end.

Not running is the smart thing to do considering how many people want to tear him down for the tiniest thing.

You are missing the point the whole reason he put on weight is because people questioned if he was built to take the pounding in the NFL. He put on the weight that was asked of him but because of that it had a certain effect on his athletic ability (or at least he believes it does) which is the whole reason anyone is considering him in the first round at all. There is a lot of doubt and rightfully so, as to whether a 185 lb QB is going to hold up to the pounding in the NFL, it is foolish to think he is going to run away from every sack or tackle. Had he come in at 205 and performed all the drills he would have answered some of the questions about him...but he didn't.

You act like he just put on the weight for fun. If the weight wasn't a concern of teams he would never have done it. If playing at that weight does not allow him to be as effective athletically then it raises concerns.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Still fail to see how Kyler is the future of the position when the most successful young QBs are big, tall passers who predominantly play within the pocket and can take hits. People are hanging onto this claim that since Wilson has excelled, so can Murray. He’s not Wilson. He’ll likely never reach Wilson’s level.

I believe he is saying that a player like Kyler in that the rules have changed so far in protecting a QB that size doesn't matter like it did even a decade ago.

Same thing happened in the NBA. The rules of hand checking made it so the players evolved. What wasn't successful before (ball dominant player driving all the time) has now become essential to success.

 

[DVontel]

It’s not gonna happen what if we still draft Bosa but Kyler somehow falls to #6 & swindle Gettleman into trading Rosen for the #6 pick & we pick Kyler?

 

[splitsecond]

Still fail to see how Kyler is the future of the position when the most successful young QBs are big, tall passers who predominantly play within the pocket and can take hits. People are hanging onto this claim that since Wilson has excelled, so can Murray. He’s not Wilson. He’ll likely never reach Wilson’s level.

People just ignore the fact that Wilson played from the pocket for a significant portion of his college career. Wilson is tough but his football IQ is some of the best we have ever seen in the sport. The odds of another smaller shorty replicating his success are not good.

 

[Proximo]

No it wouldn't, but I would be worried about a 185 lb, 5'10" QB holding up for a season...I would have rather he put on the weight and was slower and said he made the decision to ensure he could hold up over the stretch of an entire football season rather than running a 4.3/40...

The point is, he is billed as a QB who can extend plays by his pocket movement and ability to scramble...

If he isn't willing to run --ANY reasonable person would ask-- "why not?"...

To me, if he weighed 205ish and still ran a 4.6 I would have no problem at all with that.

Maybe you wouldn't, but the media made him measuring 5'10 the biggest story of the day. 80% of this board wants to claim he fixed the measurement and chugged water to get his weight up. If you can't see how people are focusing on unimportant stuff when it comes to Murray, well I guess you will never see it.

 

[BW52]

It’s not gonna happen what if we still draft Bosa but Kyler somehow falls to #6 & swindle Gettleman into trading Rosen for the #6 pick & we pick Kyler?

Brett Hundley/Kyler Murray...….

 

[Zeno]

People just ignore the fact that Wilson played from the pocket for a significant portion of his college career. Wilson is tough but his football IQ is some of the best we have ever seen in the sport. The odds of another smaller shorty replicating his success are not good.

People also tend to forget Wilson had 1489 pass attempts in college, Murray 519. Wilson was a much more refined player coming in.

 

[BW52]

Maybe you wouldn't, but the media made him measuring 5'10 the biggest story of the day. 80% of this board wants to claim he fixed the measurement and chugged water to get his weight up. If you can't see how people are focusing on unimportant stuff when it comes to Murray, well I guess you will never see it.

How is it unimportant to have serious concerns/doubts about a short/small QB holding up in the NFL? Then that same short/small QB refuses to show any of his "elite athleticism" to the scouts on Pro Day? Is that focusing on the unimportant stuff? Having legitimate concerns about his physical staure is not unimportant.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Still fail to see how Kyler is the future of the position when the most successful young QBs are big, tall passers who predominantly play within the pocket and can take hits. People are hanging onto this claim that since Wilson has excelled, so can Murray. He’s not Wilson. He’ll likely never reach Wilson’s level.

This... It's so funny how every year in the NFL, fans of the game will jump all over the "next this," or the "next that," and then proclaim how "this kid is going to change the game forever..."

Of course, there are players who have put their own unique stamp on the game, such as a Russell Wilson and more recently Mahomes. And for a short period of time, they do alter the way a position is played. But most of these types of players get flushed out and dealt with pretty quickly. Most often, they don't last and if they do survive more than a year or two, they tend to come back to the mean and resemble more of the prototypical form of play. Wilson is a great example of this as he is now much more of a threat in the pocket and does much less damage with his legs than he did the first few years of his career.
My guess is that if Mahomes remains healthy over the next few years, he too will regress back to the mean and become far less active outside the pocket or beyond the line of scrimmage.

Kyler Murray is an amazing athlete. And in high school and college, he was a superior QB and was able to produce a great deal of success. However... the NFL is simply in another galaxy as compared to what he faced in high school and in college. In the NFL, he might be able to replicate his out-of-the-pocket and beyond the line of scrimmage style for a year or two... maybe three. But I am 100% certain that if he does this with anywhere close to the level of frequency he did in college, he will have a very short NFL career. And if he does survive beyond 3 years as a starter in the NFL, he will absolutely fall back to the mean and resemble a style more like Wilson than his former self...
And for what it's worth, the same applies to Lamar Jackson.

 

[PACardsFan]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/30/mayock-jamarcus-russells-pro-day-a-cautionary-tale/

“The best Pro Day I ever saw as a quarterback was JaMarcus Russell. . . . I’ve never seen a quarterback throw the football like that in my life, but I still couldn’t take him in the first round — the guy doesn’t care about football. He doesn’t have the passion for the game, doesn’t have the work ethic, I don’t want him. But by the way, it was a pretty impressive Pro Day.”

Jamarcus Russell had a difficult time putting a sentence together, so who cares if he could throw a football. It should have been obvious that his cerebral skills that are critical to a QB’s success were lacking. That is not even remotely the case with Murray. Can we stop making stupid comparisons please.

 

[Proximo]

You are missing the point the whole reason he put on weight is because people questioned if he was built to take the pounding in the NFL. He put on the weight that was asked of him but because of that it had a certain effect on his athletic ability (or at least he believes it does) which is the whole reason anyone is considering him in the first round at all. There is a lot of doubt and rightfully so, as to whether a 185 lb QB is going to hold up to the pounding in the NFL, it is foolish to think he is going to run away from every sack or tackle. Had he come in at 205 and performed all the drills he would have answered some of the questions about him...but he didn't.

You act like he just put on the weight for fun. If the weight wasn't a concern of teams he would never have done it. If playing at that weight does not allow him to be as effective athletically then it raises concerns.

You have NO proof he put on weight. Is it possible sure - you are stating it as a fact when it is an unknown.

Does it look suspicious to you because you believe he put on weight that he did not run - sure. I understand that. It does not mean your suspicion is correct.

I know he is going to get hit in the NFL - and yes I worry he may not be that durable. It is a gamble - I sure as heck would not make it a habit of calling designed runs for him I can promise you that.

For all we know the Cards have already made it clear to his agent they are taking him. If that is the case why would he need to run the 40?

 

[Zeno]

Jamarcus Russell had a difficult putting a sentence together, so who cares if he could throw a football. It should have been obvious that his cerebral skills that are critical to a QB’s success were lacking. That is not even remotely the case with Murray. Can we stop making stupid comparisons please.

Nobody is comparing. A question was asked if there ever was a poor pro day performance. To show that pro days have no reflection on success I quoted the easiest example of that I could remember.

So you really should learn to read and comprehend before commenting.

 

[Weenus O'Baggins]

Also if you aren't understanding what Dr. Jones is saying about Wins Against Replacement (WAR)

The most dominant defensive player last year was worth 2 wins (Aaron Donald)

The most dominant QB last year was worth 8 wins (Patrick Mahomes)

BTW, you want to talk red flags, here are some:

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/josh-rosen/

Josh's rankings last year:

28th in air yards
25th in pass attempt distance
23rd in money throws
19th in interceptable passes
16 in danger plays (where QB took unnecessary risks)
30 in expected pass TDs
36 in adjusted yards per attempt
36 in true completion percentage
36 in Play action passes
51(!!) in Red Zone completion
30 in Deep Ball percentage
22 in Pressured Completion Percentage
36 in Production Premium
35 in True Passer Rating
34 in Accuracy Rating

Not a single advanced stat above league average. Not a one.