Listening to Jureki and Lewis...

[Redheart]

He is constantly around the team and players he should have a good feel for whats going on!

He also as an obvious personal bias and is using his position to advance it.

Example: he states that there are players who still have not bought it to DG; what about the ones who have bought in? Definitely two sides to that comment but only one coming from Jureki.

 

[Shane]

He also as an obvious personal bias and is using his position to advance it.

Example: he states that there are players who still have not bought it to DG; what about the ones who have bought in? Definitely two sides to that comment but only one coming from Jureki.

How is that one sided? He stated some. Which clearly means that some do buy in. Now if he said "all" that would be a one sided point of view!

Green certainly isnt going about things in the right manner as pointed out in Cubbies post above!

 

[Redheart]

So I guess we can put you down as one of the loyal Greenites who think Denny can do no wrong and always fall back on his past as the defense. Cool.

One question. Doesn't it make sense that if Green was going to cut Kendall, he would have had a discussion with the position coach he hired? Seems to me at least a heads up would be in order if not an outright sitdown discussion on the merits of doing it.

I am not arguing whether or not Kendall should have been cut. Just asking. Of course your answer will be:

Green's past, cut a clubhouse lawyer, Jurecki is just stirring the pot.

Tune in to Jim Rome if you hate Jurecki so much. The Rome show and his callers will enlighten you better and not provide a contrarian view.

I will answer for myself, thank you, and I would appreciate you not trying to pidgon-hole me for simplicity of thought.

I think we all need to give DG a chance to do his job...at least two years to see how this starts to shape up. I will be more than willing to call for his head if he has not turned the corner; to be so negative now is counter-productive.

Since DG will be held responsible for the Wins and Losses, who he cuts is his call. If he didn't consult his position coach, I assume it was because there was nothing that coach was going to say that would affect his decision. Since it is HIS job, and he has better credentials then anyone else in this discussion, yea, I give him the nod.

 

[Tangodnzr]

I will answer for myself, thank you, and I would appreciate you not trying to pidgon-hole me for simplicity of thought.

I think we all need to give DG a chance to do his job...at least two years to see how this starts to shape up. I will be more than willing to call for his head if he has not turned the corner; to be so negative now is counter-productive.

Since DG will be held responsible for the Wins and Losses, who he cuts is his call. If he didn't consult his position coach, I assume it was because there was nothing that coach was going to say that would affect his decision. Since it is HIS job, and he has better credentials then anyone else in this discussion, yea, I give him the nod.

Have YOU ever run a successful business of any kind, for any extended period of time, using your "logic" here?

This is a perfect example of the old addage: "Having the right to do something doesn't always make you right in doing it"

 

[CaptTurbo]

Mac did draft some good players; Boldin, McCown, KVB, Hill, Hayes, Wilson, .

I hate to point this out but there is only 1 good player there. Or at least 1 that PROVED he was a good player there.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Has this team improved on that record yet?

Have they even played a regular season game yet? lol

 

[Russ Smith]

I will answer for myself, thank you, and I would appreciate you not trying to pidgon-hole me for simplicity of thought.

I think we all need to give DG a chance to do his job...at least two years to see how this starts to shape up. I will be more than willing to call for his head if he has not turned the corner; to be so negative now is counter-productive.

Since DG will be held responsible for the Wins and Losses, who he cuts is his call. If he didn't consult his position coach, I assume it was because there was nothing that coach was going to say that would affect his decision. Since it is HIS job, and he has better credentials then anyone else in this discussion, yea, I give him the nod.

Why does DG need two years? There are countless one year turnarounds in recent history and in many cases those teams weren't all that ahead of us in talent.

I certainly don't think Green inherited a playoff team that was poorly coached to 4-12 under Mac, but I don't understand the give him 2 years comment either. I have no problem with giving him a pass this year in terms of wins and losses but if we're losing games because of decisions he made (cutting Kendall, benching Shelton, cutting Blake and committing to Josh) I think he should be held accountable to that.

You can't take over a company, cut the sales staff and then complain 2 months later that revenue is down because your sales group didn't perform. If you come in and make changes you better be there to stand behind them.

I'll be VERY disappointed if we win less than 6 games, that's only a 2 game improvement on a team that could have easily won 6-7 games last year with any luck or coaching(all home games of course). I don't think that's asking too much and I fully expect that, unless Quan is out significantly longer than we now think he will be.

Next year we ought to be contending for a playoff berth, if we're not, Green will be held accountable.

 

[40yearfan]

Gentelmen, before you all get your cajones in an uproar, you need to remember that Mike Bidwill is now in charge. Say what you want about Graves and Green, M. Bidwill is an astute businessman and I don't believe he will let this thing get out of hand, if indeed there is a problem between Graves and Green. Mike Bidwill will make the decisions when it comes to monies expended, I will guarantee you that and I don't think he would be beyond firing a head coach or general manager if he had an insubordination problem with them.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Have they even played a regular season game yet? lol

My point exactly!!!

YOU were the one who seemed to be fast forwarding to how much improved this team MIGHT be.

So far, from what has been demonstrated.....I think there's legitimate concern that matching last years 4-12 record is any lock, by any means.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Gentelmen, before you all get your cajones in an uproar.

Thank god I only got my panties in a twist. cajones have not uproared...yet.

 

[Redheart]

Have YOU ever run a successful business of any kind, for any extended period of time, using your "logic" here?

Well...yes...last 24 years...does that count?

 

[CaptTurbo]

My point exactly!!!

YOU were the one who seemed to be fast forwarding to how much improved this team MIGHT be.

So far, from what has been demonstrated.....I think there's legitimate concern that matching last years 4-12 record is any lock, by any means.

I guess I was trying to say that I dont care if we go 12-4 because Green is only thniking of himself and the glory he gets from it. As long as someone gets us to win I really dont care WHY they do it.

I also dont get how Mac did things only for the good of the team. Trotting out the same players week after week without giving someone else a try cant be in the best interest of the team.

 

[Mulli]

Well...yes...last 24 years...does that count?

Oops. Yeah well. uh. Redheart, how you ever run an NFL franchise? Oh well forget it.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Well...yes...last 24 years...does that count?

Ahhh yes....Intenet "truth".....ain't it great.

 

[Jttsaz]

Agreed...it's a little too early in the season for all this bickering! MJ is doing his job...sure he may be a little skewed in his opinions of DG, but he is the official Cards insider and he knows more than I do. As a Cards fan I want all the insider info I can get good or bad. I also reserve the right to criticize the media when I feel they are purosely painting a one-sided view of the situation. Thus far I don't think that has happened but everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. For the record...I don't think the Cardinals are a quick fix...I don't care who is coaching. Sure the whole 10-6/playoff predictions are nice but realistically this is going to be a work in progress...and for those who use the Dallas analogy...they had a solid defense to fallback on. I think we, as fans, should really wait and give DG a chance to see what he can do. From what I can gather he is basically in the process of building a team of "DG type players" which will consist of many new faces in the years to come. This doesn't mean we aren't free to critize moves made by DG and co...but really 1 lousy preseason game should not be reason for mass panic. At best this team will play competitive ball which is better than what we've been accustomed to the last few years..at worst it will be the start of a complete roster/org/attitude overhaul which means a horrendous year..but probably not any worse than last year....I think DG has 2 years to show marked improvements..going into the 3rd year the Cards should be contending for a playoff spot...

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Why does DG need two years? There are countless one year turnarounds in recent history and in many cases those teams weren't all that ahead of us in talent.

I certainly don't think Green inherited a playoff team that was poorly coached to 4-12 under Mac, but I don't understand the give him 2 years comment either. I have no problem with giving him a pass this year in terms of wins and losses but if we're losing games because of decisions he made (cutting Kendall, benching Shelton, cutting Blake and committing to Josh) I think he should be held accountable to that.

You can't take over a company, cut the sales staff and then complain 2 months later that revenue is down because your sales group didn't perform. If you come in and make changes you better be there to stand behind them.

I'll be VERY disappointed if we win less than 6 games, that's only a 2 game improvement on a team that could have easily won 6-7 games last year with any luck or coaching(all home games of course). I don't think that's asking too much and I fully expect that, unless Quan is out significantly longer than we now think he will be.

Next year we ought to be contending for a playoff berth, if we're not, Green will be held accountable.

Russ your certainly giving a lot of props to a team that was dead last in the NFL in offense and defense, all the while most likely bringing up the caboose in special teams as well. Yes this team could have easily won seven games, but it just as easily could have won zero.

And I would like for you to find me examples of one-year turnarounds. The '99 Rams was Vermeil's third year there, the '00 Pats were Belicheck's second as well as '03 Panthers were Fox's second.

 

[spanky1]

Gentelmen, before you all get your cajones in an uproar, you need to remember that Mike Bidwill is now in charge. Say what you want about Graves and Green, M. Bidwill is an astute businessman and I don't believe he will let this thing get out of hand, if indeed there is a problem between Graves and Green. Mike Bidwill will make the decisions when it comes to monies expended, I will guarantee you that and I don't think he would be beyond firing a head coach or general manager if he had an insubordination problem with them.

Mike Bidwill is an astute businessman...............on what do you base this? He was a practicing lawyer for a few years before being annointed by his dad to some obscure position deep in the bowels of the organization before taking on the role he now has.........hardly qualifies him as an astute businessman. Lee Iaccocca, Jack Welsh (or closer to home for you in AZ ) Bill Franke, they better describe what are "good businessmen".

 

[Redheart]

Why does DG need two years? There are countless one year turnarounds in recent history and in many cases those teams weren't all that ahead of us in talent...
Next year we ought to be contending for a playoff berth, if we're not, Green will be held accountable.

This year, next year...two years. Time for his first picks to develop, his new OL to gell, and HIS system to be familiar to all the team.

Seems like we said the same thing...your bar is contending for play-off berth. I would expect to make the play-offs by the first year in the new stadium...I think that fits the Bidwills' plans too.

Countless one-year turnarounds?? Only if you can't count using both hands.

Heck, just being the Cardinals should give him THREE years!

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ your certainly giving a lot of props to a team that was dead last in the NFL in offense and defense, all the while most likely bringing up the caboose in special teams as well. Yes this team could have easily won seven games, but it just as easily could have won zero.

And I would like for you to find me examples of one-year turnarounds. The '99 Rams was Vermeil's third year there, the '00 Pats were Belicheck's second as well as '03 Panthers were Fox's second.

I would call Dallas and Cincy one year turnarounds last year. Also, to clarify I took the give him 2 years comment to mean, he can lose this year and next year it's year 3 that this team will be his. I am not sure that's what the poster meant, he may have meant give him this year, but in year 2 he better win.

I completely understand what you're saying but again, look at the scores of the home game and ask yourself if we couldn't have pulled out 2-3 more wins with some luck or absence of dumb plays? Baltimore the blocked punt and the pick for a TD, erase those plays and we win is an example of what I mean. We were completely inept on the road, which I attribute to both talent and coaching.

I think 10 wins this year would be a miracle, but i do think Green has substantially hurt our ability to win right away by weakening the OL to prove a point about who is in charge.

Note, none of my comments have anything to do with Saturday's loss which I didn't see.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Russ your certainly giving a lot of props to a team that was dead last in the NFL in offense and defense, all the while most likely bringing up the caboose in special teams as well. Yes this team could have easily won seven games, but it just as easily could have won zero.

And I would like for you to find me examples of one-year turnarounds. The '99 Rams was Vermeil's third year there, the '00 Pats were Belicheck's second as well as '03 Panthers were Fox's second.

I have to agree with Russ here.
The FACT is....the team DID win 4 games last year.(in spite of how "easily could have won zero...LOL )
..and ...did you not watch the second Rams game and the Carolina games last year?
The Cards "could have" won both those games "very easily". (I use the word very easily only to represent that they were close and "winnable".)

 

[Russ Smith]

This year, next year...two years. Time for his first picks to develop, his new OL to gell, and HIS system to be familiar to all the team.

Seems like we said the same thing...your bar is contending for play-off berth. I would expect to make the play-offs by the first year in the new stadium...I think that fits the Bidwills' plans too.

Countless one-year turnarounds?? Only if you can't count using both hands.

Heck, just being the Cardinals should give him THREE years!

To be clear by one year turnaround I mean taking a bad team and turning them into a team on the rise in one year. Examples would be Dallas and Cincy last year. Fox did it in Carolina too, they didn't win 2 years ago but it was clear they were building the defense to do so, they just needed to fix their offense.

Our assumption was Green was going to have the offense and just needed to fix the defense, right now even with Quan that wouldn't appear to be true?

I also expect to win 1-2 more games this year simply by actually being prepared to play unlike under Mac. I like Green, I just hope he's done with the cutting good players to make a point stuff, but I keep reading stuff here suggesting he's not (Shelton may be cut, Dexter Jackson etc).

 

[Gnomad]

Ahhh yes....Intenet "truth".....ain't it great.

always good policy to ask the question knowing you won't believe the answer if it makes you look worse.

 

[Redheart]

Ahhh yes....Intenet "truth".....ain't it great.

Yep, Aerospace industry...I know it isn't a dance studio or anything...

 

[C-MACK]

Something you guys are missing out on here is the fact that if Jurecki didn't talk about the Cards no one would. We get so little info from the media. We have gotten almost nothing about who has or hasn't looked good in camp except for the reports from Skkorp and co. Just imagine what training camp would be like next year without Skkorp Nidan et al getting press access and no Jurecki. We would know nothing and have to base all of our predictions on how our team is performing in Madden 2006

 

[Mulli]

One thing that has always concerned me is the difference between one year turn around and having a good year. The Cardinals have been good for a 7-9 season once in a while, but the next year they would be back to 4-12. I hope Green can get the Cards to a place where they consistently win. I do not think a good season makes a good turnaround unless the team follows up with good seasons continually.