Kyler Murray Debate Thread

[kerouac9]

they don't have less

Less than what?

Josh Allen has very little at the skill positions. I have little doubt that Lamar Jackson's weapons outside of King Henry would look like much on another team. Patrick Mahomes has a really good offensive line and little after Kelce.

I'd say teams offering more support for their QBs include Seattle, San Fran, LARM, Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Cincy, Tennessee, Philly, Carolina. Those are 11 teams.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Less than what?

Josh Allen has very little at the skill positions. I have little doubt that Lamar Jackson's weapons outside of King Henry would look like much on another team. Patrick Mahomes has a really good offensive line and little after Kelce.

I'd say teams offering more support for their QBs include Seattle, San Fran, LARM, Green Bay, Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Cincy, Tennessee, Philly, Carolina. Those are 11 teams.

comparisons be damned - truth is kyler had all he needed before the bye - won the games we were supposed to and even competed in games we weren't expected to - there were no major personnel changes post-bye so idk why we're talking about placating kyler murray's freakin needs lol - he had wildcardish talent around him at the very least - we'd be in the playoffs if he didn't suck it up the last two months

 

[kerouac9]

he had wildcardish talent around him at the very least - we'd be in the playoffs if he didn't suck it up the last two months

He had wild cardish talent around him and we got a wildcardish outcome. Don’t know why you’re mad.

 

[BirdGangThing]

He had wild cardish talent around him and we got a wildcardish outcome. Don’t know why you’re mad.

not mad - but not watching the wildcard game either lol

 

[Cheesebeef]

He had wild cardish talent around him and we got a wildcardish outcome. Don’t know why you’re mad.

Being eliminated from the playoffs with two games left in the season isn’t wildcardish talent.

 

[HairZach]

All this talk about yards and not a single mention of TDs.

You guys are a crack-up.

Again the WRs in Baltimore play in the same type of offense that AZ has. It prioritizes RB & TEs.

Please go on though.

The crack up is someone arguing that Zay Flowers and Rashod Bateman are an elite duo. I've never heard that take anywhere in NFL media, even from the hot take guys. Lamar has stepped up his game way beyond where it was in 2023, that's why he and his receivers have a ton of touchdowns. Not to mention, for a good QB, a great running makes the passing game a lot easier. Their defense was also pretty awful for most of the season, they've been in a lot of shootouts. Meanwhile whenever the Cardinals defense failed Kyler turned into a pumpkin, any potential shootouts became blowouts.

Monken's scheme has never been about prioritizing TEs, his roots are in the heyday of Big 12 spread offenses. Sure his offense has evolved and they use TEs plenty, but the Ravens top 3 TEs combined have fewer targets than McBride alone.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don’t know if we’re still in the “better talent” stage. I think we’re at the “players need to answer the call” stage.

Beej
Collins
Melton
Jalen Thompson
MHJ
I. Adams
Benson
Robinson
Wilson

All these guys probably underproduced to their draft status/talent level this year. Even if they more or less met expectations for year 1 or 2.

Maybe. There is some of that. There is also some of the need for guys with premier talent. Do I think Paris Johnson, MHJ, Robinson, and Melton have room to become top end NFL players? Yes. Do I think they are close? Not all of them.

Like you said, Darius Robinson is an unknown to this point. You need more than one guy who has top end athletic talent to try to develop.

We have no pass rushers who fit that description. Ojulari was a meh when we drafted him.

Benson and Adams were far too raw to count on. And you lost Hernandez and maybe Jonah.

Wilson and Dortch are not the 2 and 3 WRs on a really good roster. Both are too limited.

We have a bunch of dudes, but we lack talent. We lack guys with the potential to be top end NFL players. IMO.

 

[schutd]

The problem with that is that THIS team should have made the playoffs, but Kyler choked hard during a 4-5 game stretch of crucial games. A lot of those loses were on Kyler, not the team.

You're not wrong. Neither are any of the other posters telling you you're making a big deal about nothing. This is standard operating procedure for most every team in the league, if you ask me.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

comparisons be damned - truth is kyler had all he needed before the bye - won the games we were supposed to and even competed in games we weren't expected to - there were no major personnel changes post-bye so idk why we're talking about placating kyler murray's freakin needs lol - he had wildcardish talent around him at the very least - we'd be in the playoffs if he didn't suck it up the last two months

We had some big injuries on the oline after the bye. Just saying.

 

[Stout]

He's basically telling you the talent on the team is sub par. It is sub par.

It's not, not on offense. Well, with just a few exceptions, Kyler amongst them.

 

[Stout]

Brit hoping the Head Coach throws his current QB under the bus.

Funny.

Eh, there's backing your QB and then there's singing his praises to the hills. Gannon's comment a while back was the former; this was the latter. It didn't sound like coachspeak.

 

[Stout]

This is the line:

LT - Above average until PJJr went out
LG - Ass
C - Above average
RG - Ass
RT - Below Average

Overall it is sub par.

WOW, hard disagree. We got average play out of RT and LG was absolutely now ass. Average again. And, oh, if you're talking about to start the year, RG was far from ass. RG was also average for a large stretch of the season. Sure, those averages wavered a little lower sometimes but also rose above average at times.

I mean, nice try to defend Kyler, but Joe Burrow would have thrived behind that line this season.

 

[Stout]

We had some big injuries on the oline after the bye. Just saying.

Tell me you're a Kyler guy without telling me you're a Kyler guy. The incredible excuse making it mounting. Never poor wittle Kywer's fauwt, is it?

 

[BritCard]

You're not wrong. Neither are any of the other posters telling you you're making a big deal about nothing. This is standard operating procedure for most every team in the league, if you ask me.

I suppose. It's not like I expect JG to throw Kyler under the bus and say we didn't make the playoffs because he sucked in the crunch.

But his statement just hit me the wrong way, it seemed to be far too much of "It's not Kyler, he needs a better team".

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Tell me you're a Kyler guy without telling me you're a Kyler guy. The incredible excuse making it mounting. Never poor wittle Kywer's fauwt, is it?

I consistently say he is mid. Half the oline is trash. Both can be true.

Without prior research, I will pull the PFF online ranks by player shortly. Maybe I am wrong

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is the line:

LT - Above average until PJJr went out
LG - Ass
C - Above average
RG - Ass
RT - Below Average

Overall it is sub par.

Okay so let's see if my statement was outrageous or not. PFF Rankings:

LT Paris Johnson Jr 12th Kelvin Beachum 61st - This was, in fact, correct.

LG Evan Brown 44th, Nick Leverett 64th - This was, in fact, correct

C Hjalte Froholdt 7th Jon Gaines 32nd - This was, in fact, correct

RG Isaiah Adams - 80th Trystan Colon 28th. - Correct on Adams. Colon was average. No idea why he got benched.

RT - Jackson Barton 64th, Christian Jones 104th, Jonah Williams 41st. - This was worse than I thought.


So I was mostly correct just RT was ass too without Williams.

 

[Stout]

I consistently say he is mid. Half the oline is trash. Both can be true.

Without prior research, I will pull the PFF online ranks by player shortly. Maybe I am wrong

He is definitely mid. There's a lot of "but if you can just help him enough" talk going around that, frankly, puts me off. Tired of having the guy that can't be the guy. Right now, I almost feel peak Trent Dilfer would be just as good in this offense lol

 

[602 Native]

The crack up is someone arguing that Zay Flowers and Rashod Bateman are an elite duo. I've never heard that take anywhere in NFL media, even from the hot take guys. Lamar has stepped up his game way beyond where it was in 2023, that's why he and his receivers have a ton of touchdowns. Not to mention, for a good QB, a great running makes the passing game a lot easier. Their defense was also pretty awful for most of the season, they've been in a lot of shootouts. Meanwhile whenever the Cardinals defense failed Kyler turned into a pumpkin, any potential shootouts became blowouts.

Monken's scheme has never been about prioritizing TEs, his roots are in the heyday of Big 12 spread offenses. Sure his offense has evolved and they use TEs plenty, but the Ravens top 3 TEs combined have fewer targets than McBride alone.

Bateman was the number one before Flowers and proved he couldn’t carry the spot. Last year was Zays rookie year and this year proved he is the one.

Who cares what talking heads say watch the games.

Lamar has always been great despite what fans think here.

Bateman and Flowers are absolutely an elite duo in the League only behind Cincinnati and Minnesota. In any other offense they would be top two if not 1.

 

[DVontel]

there's backing your QB and then there's singing his praises to the hills.

They go hand-in-hand.

 

[Chopper0080]

Bateman was the number one before Flowers and proved he couldn’t carry the spot. Last year was Zays rookie year and this year proved he is the one.

Who cares what talking heads say watch the games.

Lamar has always been great despite what fans think here.

Bateman and Flowers are absolutely an elite duo in the League only behind Cincinnati and Minnesota. In any other offense they would be top two if not 1.

McBride and MHJ - 2031 combined yards and 10 TDs

Flowers and Bateman - 1815 combined yards and 13 TDs

I am happy you can admit Kyler was working with an "elite duo" in the league for receiving. Shocker that he couldn't be better given those elite weapons. After this astounding claim, I don't want to hear you even insinuate that Kyler doesn't have elite weapons to work with.

 

[BirdGangThing]

kyler murray has one thing to do this off-season and that's to remember it's only football - to remember there's always going to be a correct decision - you just have to stay calm and make it

we've seen him make the correct calls - when to take off - when to take deep shots - and we've seen the amazing throws from the pocket when he stays calm

geno - mayfield - darnold - these guys apparently figured it out but you also have the jameis winstons who just can't figure it out

i think we see the same ol' kyler in 2025 but it'd sure be nice if got his poise back - and kept it

 

[602 Native]

McBride and MHJ - 2031 combined yards and 10 TDs

Flowers and Bateman - 1815 combined yards and 13 TDs

I am happy you can admit Kyler was working with an "elite duo" in the league for receiving. Shocker that he couldn't be better given those elite weapons. After this astounding claim, I don't want to hear you even insinuate that Kyler doesn't have elite weapons to work with.

You forgot that Andrews guy in Baltimore.

They are a better pass catching squad than us.

 

[602 Native]

McBride and MHJ - 2031 combined yards and 10 TDs

Flowers and Bateman - 1815 combined yards and 13 TDs

I am happy you can admit Kyler was working with an "elite duo" in the league for receiving. Shocker that he couldn't be better given those elite weapons. After this astounding claim, I don't want to hear you even insinuate that Kyler doesn't have elite weapons to work with.

You said TDs are random please take a 1000 seats

 

[BirdGangThing]

Lamar has always been great despite what fans think here.

who exactly are these fans? cuz everyone i know in here would probably trade 8 kylers for one lamar

 

[602 Native]

who exactly are these fans? cuz everyone i know in here would probably trade 8 kylers for one lamar

Its easy to say he is great now. Tons of fans on this board thought he would not be a good QB coming out.