How to play the Oubre asset this summer

[Hoop Head]

I'm not all that worried because I don't think he's going to get offered anywhere near the money you guys are talking about... however, tossing around 15-20 mil, 4 year contracts to relatively mediocre players because they had some money to toss around is how the Wizards and Blazers got in their untenable cap situations, forcing them to dump young players down the road.

It wasn't only the Blazers and Wizards that screwed themselves. Both of those teams matched ridiculous contracts for their players that were offered by the Nets. The Nets signed Otto Porter, Allen Crabbe, and Tyler Johnson to ridiculous contracts over the years that their teams have matched. There are more than just those players and teams but I think we can be thankful that the Nets shouldn't have much cap space this summer. The Nets also own their own picks going forward so I don't think they will be that desperate to add young talent. They seemed to screw the cap space of a few teams by the deals they've been throwing around.

With all of the free agents this summer that won't be restricted free agents, I don't think we'll see Oubre or any other restricted free agents offered ridiculous offer sheets. We'll see what happens but I think after the initial crop of free agents sign in the first week then we'll need to get Oubre locked in because I can see teams that came up short elsewhere that are looking to blow their cap space gambling on restricted free agents at that point.

 

[Cheesebeef]

paying guys like Oubre 15-20 million dollars a year is how you become the Knicks, Trailblazers, etc. etc. with a raft of okay players making BIG MONEY and killing your cap flexibility.

 

[AzStevenCal]

paying guys like Oubre 15-20 million dollars a year is how you become the Knicks, Trailblazers, etc. etc. with a raft of okay players making BIG MONEY and killing your cap flexibility.

There are 47 players already making 20 million or more. He's not one of the top 47 players in the league but what will 20 million look like the last 2 years of his contract? And there are already 80 players making 15 million this year. I just don't know if it's that far out of line. But then I look at Zach Lavine, getting 19.5 per year from the Bulls who are reportedly trying to get out of their mistake already and I wonder. So, I don't know. But I don't believe we are going to find great ways to spend our cap the next few years so I think it's a mistake we can afford to make.

 

[1Sun]

There are 47 players already making 20 million or more. He's not one of the top 47 players in the league but what will 20 million look like the last 2 years of his contract? And there are already 80 players making 15 million this year. I just don't know if it's that far out of line. But then I look at Zach Lavine, getting 19.5 per year from the Bulls who are reportedly trying to get out of their mistake already and I wonder. So, I don't know. But I don't believe we are going to find great ways to spend our cap the next few years so I think it's a mistake we can afford to make.

Only if we trade Warren and get capable veterans at point guard and power forward.

 

[Cheesebeef]

There are 47 players already making 20 million or more. He's not one of the top 47 players in the league but what will 20 million look like the last 2 years of his contract? And there are already 80 players making 15 million this year. I just don't know if it's that far out of line. But then I look at Zach Lavine, getting 19.5 per year from the Bulls who are reportedly trying to get out of their mistake already and I wonder. So, I don't know. But I don't believe we are going to find great ways to spend our cap the next few years so I think it's a mistake we can afford to make.

at a position where we're already 4 DEEP? Man, I just... don't know.

 

[Phrazbit]

There are 47 players already making 20 million or more. He's not one of the top 47 players in the league but what will 20 million look like the last 2 years of his contract? And there are already 80 players making 15 million this year. I just don't know if it's that far out of line. But then I look at Zach Lavine, getting 19.5 per year from the Bulls who are reportedly trying to get out of their mistake already and I wonder. So, I don't know. But I don't believe we are going to find great ways to spend our cap the next few years so I think it's a mistake we can afford to make.

It's not just about not being able to sign a free agent, it's that if we're giving out 20 million do a dude like Oubre then we're going to be looking at the luxury tax to keep other guys coming up the roster.

I like Oubre, but if some team out there throws him funny money then we should not bail them out of that mistake.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's not just about not being able to sign a free agent, it's that if we're giving out 20 million do a dude like Oubre then we're going to be looking at the luxury tax to keep other guys coming up the roster.

I like Oubre, but if some team out there throws him funny money then we should not bail them out of that mistake.

bingo.

 

[1Sun]

It's not just about not being able to sign a free agent, it's that if we're giving out 20 million do a dude like Oubre then we're going to be looking at the luxury tax to keep other guys coming up the roster.

I like Oubre, but if some team out there throws him funny money then we should not bail them out of that mistake.

You mean like we just bailed out the Miami Heat from their even bigger mistake?

 

[95pro]

It’s tough to say because we don’t know if James Jones will continue to be our GM going forward. And we don’t know his plan as well.

Another thing to throw a wrench into all this is our draft spot. Let’s say we do get Zion, then who goes?

He’s one of our few guys that never waivers and that’s what I love in a player, guys like JJ, Holmes and Oubre. Then Mikal also has a more natural defensive instinct and tendencies where it’s not all predicated on hustle.

Keep Oubre and match anything up to around 12-15.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Keep Oubre and match anything up to around 12-15.

There are 112 players making at least 12 million this season. By the time his 4 year deal is over that kind of salary would probably put him in the bottom third for rotation players. IOW, if you say match anything up to 12 million that's the same as saying let him go and I'm not sure 15 million gets us much closer to keeping him. I don't know what the right thing to do here but he just turned 23 when the season started so it's not unreasonable to expect him to continue to improve for a few more years. I'd hate to let a few million a year be the difference although I don't know where I'd draw the line.

 

[slinslin]

He should get a similiar contract TJ Warren got.

He is by no means perfect but should only get better.

 

[Hoop Head]

He should get a similiar contract TJ Warren got.

He is by no means perfect but should only get better.

I agree with that. It's fine if he gets a little more than TJ but not a lot more. TJ is making $11,750,000 this year, based on what Spotrac.com lists and that's fair for Oubre. Apparently Warren's contract goes down a bit next year and is only $10,810,000 according to them also, which will help us some with cap space but Oubre making between $11-14 million should be more than fair.

I'd like to see him add some weight this summer also. Not necessarily muscle but weight in general because if we don't bring in a good PF I wouldn't mind seeing him there rather than TJ. I'm not saying he should be our PF acquisition this summer but if he's going to be with us a while as our 6th man then he should bulk up some so he can play more PF to maximize his minutes.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He should get a similiar contract TJ Warren got.

He is by no means perfect but should only get better.

Warren got 50/4, right? feel like that deal would be perfect and wouldn't go a penny more.

 

[Proximo]

Warren got 50/4, right? feel like that deal would be perfect and wouldn't go a penny more.

Warrens deal was 2 years ago. Cap has gone up quite a bit.

Warren is an inferior overall player in my opinion. There is a lot of cap space available this offseason.

I don't like it, but there is no way Oubre will not get more money than Warren.

 

[SirStefan32]

Warrens deal was 2 years ago. Cap has gone up quite a bit.

Warren is an inferior overall player in my opinion. There is a lot of cap space available this offseason.

I don't like it, but there is no way Oubre will not get more money than Warren.

Agreed. I will be shocked if he doesn't get more than $60M/4Y, and I won't be surprised if he gets $80M/4Y.

 

[Phrazbit]

Again... this dude was traded for virtually nothing just a few months ago. He's putting up okay numbers with middling efficiency on an AWFUL team.

I think you guys are over estimating his market value to an extent virtually unheard of on this board. It reminds me of when people were debating throwing 15-20 million at Alex Len. I like Oubre more than Len, but I also don't see Oubre as anything more than a role player on a decent team.

The only reason I can see him getting more than 10 mil a season is because so many teams are going to have money, but I think if he gets a 10-15 mil a year contract it will only be a 1 or 2 year deal.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Again... this dude was traded for virtually nothing just a few months ago. He's putting up okay numbers with middling efficiency on an AWFUL team.

I think you guys are over estimating his market value to an extent virtually unheard of on this board. It reminds me of when people were debating throwing 15-20 million at Alex Len. I like Oubre more than Len, but I also don't see Oubre as anything more than a role player on a decent team.

The only reason I can see him getting more than 10 mil a season is because so many teams are going to have money, but I think if he gets a 10-15 mil a year contract it will only be a 1 or 2 year deal.

I think posters are excited about someone who shows energy on the floor and who has been vocal about actually wanting to be on the Suns. I really like him a lot and would be sad to see him go. That said, this team NEEDS to add a legit pg and pf in the offseason more than they need to keep Oubre. If they can do all of these things, I will be very happy....

....until the season starts and we end up being awful again anyway.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Again... this dude was traded for virtually nothing just a few months ago. He's putting up okay numbers with middling efficiency on an AWFUL team.

I think you guys are over estimating his market value to an extent virtually unheard of on this board. It reminds me of when people were debating throwing 15-20 million at Alex Len. I like Oubre more than Len, but I also don't see Oubre as anything more than a role player on a decent team.

The only reason I can see him getting more than 10 mil a season is because so many teams are going to have money, but I think if he gets a 10-15 mil a year contract it will only be a 1 or 2 year deal.

The league and the money changed on big men right around the Len conversation, this is nowhere near the same thing. A year earlier and we'd have paid him big money and deeply regretted it. We got saved by the timing IMO.

Before we traded for Oubre I'd heard several times that he was looking for 15M and the Wizards were unsure whether to pay it. It's not like they wanted to get rid of him, if they'd been able to move Wall I'm confident they would have tried to keep him.

As a player, he's hard to read. At times he looks like he's going to become a star and at others, you wonder if this is all he'll ever be - an up and down athlete hindered by his inconsistent outside shot. I don't know what he should get but I'd be very surprised if he didn't get more than Warren.

 

[Phrazbit]

The league and the money changed on big men right around the Len conversation, this is nowhere near the same thing. A year earlier and we'd have paid him big money and deeply regretted it. We got saved by the timing IMO.

Before we traded for Oubre I'd heard several times that he was looking for 15M and the Wizards were unsure whether to pay it. It's not like they wanted to get rid of him, if they'd been able to move Wall I'm confident they would have tried to keep him.

As a player, he's hard to read. At times he looks like he's going to become a star and at others, you wonder if this is all he'll ever be - an up and down athlete hindered by his inconsistent outside shot. I don't know what he should get but I'd be very surprised if he didn't get more than Warren.

I strongly disagree on the Len stuff and I think the evidence is overwhelming. We signed Chandler, then a year alter we never even broached extension talks, then he becomes a restricted free agent and we never offered anything more than the QO and he couldn't get a better offer either. There was never a point when Len would have received a massive contract, it was a case of the board wildly over estimating Len's market.

The Wizards dumped Oubre for an expiring contract, the Grizzlies wouldn't give up Dillon Brooks for him. He's putting up middling numbers on a terrible team. And (most detrimental to his value) he is a wing player who is a bad 3pt shooter... who also doesn't pass. Those guys do not get the big bucks. 60-80 million is crazy talk.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I strongly disagree on the Len stuff and I think the evidence is overwhelming. We signed Chandler, then a year alter we never even broached extension talks, then he becomes a restricted free agent and we never offered anything more than the QO and he couldn't get a better offer either. There was never a point when Len would have received a massive contract, it was a case of the board wildly over estimating Len's market.

The Wizards dumped Oubre for an expiring contract, the Grizzlies wouldn't give up Dillon Brooks for him. He's putting up middling numbers on a terrible team. And (most detrimental to his value) he is a wing player who is a bad 3pt shooter... who also doesn't pass. Those guys do not get the big bucks.

He is not going to sniff 60-80 million.

More likely it was a case of the board (me, namely) overestimating the market in general. And with Oubre, I don't know if he'll get 80 but I do think he'll get 60 if he takes a 4 year deal. But we'll see. I certainly won't get my feelings hurt if we can sign him for a Warren-like deal or even less.

 

[Phrazbit]

More likely it was a case of the board (me, namely) overestimating the market in general. And with Oubre, I don't know if he'll get 80 but I do think he'll get 60 if he takes a 4 year deal. But we'll see. I certainly won't get my feelings hurt if we can sign him for a Warren-like deal or even less.

My guess is we're going to lose him.

If we don't get a starting caliber point guard in the draft (via picking them or by trade) then we're obviously going after one in free agency. If we're busy hunting a point guard and early in free agency someone offers Oubre a contract like... 24-30 mil, 2 years, then we won't be able to match unless we've inked a point guard already.

 

[AzStevenCal]

My guess is we're going to lose him.

If we don't get a starting caliber point guard in the draft (via picking them or by trade) then we're obviously going after one in free agency. If we're busy hunting a point guard and early in free agency someone offers Oubre a contract like... 24-30 mil, 2 years, then we won't be able to match unless we've inked a point guard already.

Having read the most recent comments from Jones, I think you're probably right even if we have a viable solution for PG that doesn't require us letting him go. I think Oubre still falls into the youth category, he plays like a young 23 and if you're paying him to get better it's definitely a risk.

 

[Phrazbit]

I also just can't fathom how a guy who was viewed as less appealing than Dillon Brooks just a few months ago getting a 4 year 8 figure deal unless he's been transformative... and he hasn't, he has pretty much been the same player he was with the Wizards and we're just as lousy as we were before we got him.

IMO we're just starved for someone who plays with energy and make some plays on defense.

 

[elindholm]

I also just can't fathom how a guy who was viewed as less appealing than Dillon Brooks just a few months ago getting a 4 year 8 figure deal unless he's been transformative... and he hasn't, he has pretty much been the same player he was with the Wizards and we're just as lousy as we were before we got him.

IMO we're just starved for someone who plays with energy and make some plays on defense.

True, but ~$12 million per year just isn't that much in today's NBA. It's like the old MLE contracts of 10-12 years ago, which often went to seventh or eighth men on the roster. If you think of Oubre as an MLE player, or a slight cut above that, then there's nothing extreme about the numbers we're considering.

 

[slinslin]

I also just can't fathom how a guy who was viewed as less appealing than Dillon Brooks just a few months ago getting a 4 year 8 figure deal unless he's been transformative... and he hasn't, he has pretty much been the same player he was with the Wizards and we're just as lousy as we were before we got him.

IMO we're just starved for someone who plays with energy and make some plays on defense.

The only reason Oubre was viewed as less appealing than Brooks is the simple reason that Brooks had an additional year on his rookie contract while Oubre had a 10M$ caphold which effectively comes out as Oubre costing us 9M$ or so of our capspace which we would still have with Brooks.