HC Gannon part of the problem

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
11,067
Reaction score
14,402
Location
York, PA
Conversely, I dont want a HC who praises poor play calling.
It’s ALL coach speak. It’s silly that anyone listens to what a HC says & thinks they’re somehow getting transparency. Those days are long gone. Our offense is struggling because our OL isn’t opening up holes and cannot protect our QB. And we have a very young WR1 who needs to grow up and develop in a hurry.
 

TJ

Knower of Ball
Joined
Apr 2, 2005
Posts
38,887
Reaction score
27,288
Location
South Bay
It’s ALL coach speak. It’s silly that anyone listens to what a HC says & thinks they’re somehow getting transparency. Those days are long gone. Our offense is struggling because our OL isn’t opening up holes and cannot protect our QB. And we have a very young WR1 who needs to grow up and develop in a hurry.
There's a difference between "coach speak" and being short-sighted. Coach speak in this situation would sound like, "we didnt execute well and we could've called better plays." Praising bad play calling is not only insulting to the fan base, it is a back-handed slap at the players.
 

ASUCHRIS

ONE HEART BEAT!!!
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Posts
20,992
Reaction score
22,847
Real NFL Teams don't put up with crap like this.
Big P Brain should have been fired today.
xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media
The ceiling of this offense is "good enough to make less mistakes than bad teams", but has zero plan on how to beat good teams. That's how you go 2-10 against teams with winning records.

This personnel group/FO is going nowhere.
 

602 Native

ASFN Addict
Joined
Nov 1, 2023
Posts
5,988
Reaction score
11,037
Location
Gilbert
Its so funny to see this thread continue to thrive even though the drumbeat to fire Big P Brain has pretty much been since we started to see his offense in year 2.
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,942
Reaction score
3,225
Location
ASFN
Of course not but they make changes and don't say that their coaches and players played great.
Agree if they don’t make changes they won’t be our coaches much longer. They are a first time coaching staff they better learn to adjust.
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,942
Reaction score
3,225
Location
ASFN
It’s ALL coach speak. It’s silly that anyone listens to what a HC says & thinks they’re somehow getting transparency. Those days are long gone. Our offense is struggling because our OL isn’t opening up holes and cannot protect our QB. And we have a very young WR1 who needs to grow up and develop in a hurry.
Agree, but if you don’t throw the ball past 5 yards it makes stopping the run much easier.
 

PACardsFan

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 15, 2002
Posts
11,067
Reaction score
14,402
Location
York, PA
Agree, but if you don’t throw the ball past 5 yards it makes stopping the run much easier.
Agree. A team like Seattle, with a stout DL, knows they can pressure the QB & stop the run without their safeties up. So, they stay in a 2 deep zone, which makes it tougher to beat them deep. Add a WR room that’s not catching the ball, and you have a struggling offense. The OL must improve and our WR’s have to make plays when the ball hits them in the hands.
 

PDXChris

All In!
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
34,411
Reaction score
34,788
Location
PDX
14-24! Measure him by his own standards: is this team disciplined? Are his young players learning and getting better? Are they improving in the red zone and third down?
It felt like prior to Seahawks game last we were improving and then the wheels fell off and we still haven't recovered and it's getting worse.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
97,728
Reaction score
82,875
It felt like prior to Seahawks game last we were improving and then the wheels fell off and we still haven't recovered and it's getting worse.
it might have only felt that way - in retrospect, we barely beat what ended up a bad Niners, barely beat a bad Dolphins team, beat a legitimately solid Chargers team and then pasted two totally atrocious Bears and Jets teams. We were basically getting high on the hog and when the rubber met the road against teams with a pulse, the proof was in the pudding!

For more idioms, my Venmo is... Cheesebeef-Is-The-Best-1000!
 

PDXChris

All In!
Supporting Member
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 28, 2003
Posts
34,411
Reaction score
34,788
Location
PDX
it might have only felt that way - in retrospect, we barely beat what ended up a bad Niners, barely beat a bad Dolphins team, beat a legitimately solid Chargers team and then pasted two totally atrocious Bears and Jets teams. We were basically getting high on the hog and when the rubber met the road against teams with a pulse, the proof was in the pudding!

For more idioms, my Venmo is... Cheesebeef-Is-The-Best-1000!
That's why I said felt. 6-4 will make you do that, but looking back, we beat some bad teams. We'll be lucky to win 5 games this year now. :(
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
97,728
Reaction score
82,875
That's why I said felt. 6-4 will make you do that, but looking back, we beat some bad teams. We'll be lucky to win 5 games this year now. :(
nah... looking at the schedule, I bet we win 6 or 7. which will be totally pointless, won't get anyone fired, will be just enough to blame the year on whatever excuse Mikey and company want and leave us just out of range for Monti to get lucky enough to get an actual impact player high in the draft.

because that is our lot in this sports life.
 

FB94

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 2, 2019
Posts
4,674
Reaction score
6,522
Location
Anthem
If we don’t make a change at OC with a 7 win season I don’t know what to say. I think Rallis is safe unless the D falls off a cliff. Petzjng has one foot out the door and if we look inept for 3 Qs against the Titans he needs to go.
 

BooksOrangePlanet

I was BirdGangThing
Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2019
Posts
39,857
Reaction score
44,917
Location
Arcadia
gannon saw this offense - murray included - be successful until we fell apart last year - if he doesn't fix it he might not be here next year - if we go from having a winning record and giving gannon all that defense only to walk away with a losing record.... ooh mama hot seat indeed

gannon can't do anything about kyler murray - he's the guy - and he's not hot garbage

petzing is gannon's only course of action - as a defensive head coach it has to be like watching your team get picked on same way you've picked on other inferior teams - it has to be infuriating

so wtf can gannon do - might i suggest having an intervention with petzing?

not the whole team of course - just gannon and rallis - with murray there only for a portion of it because of we can't score we can't win and gannon isn't dancing with his words anymore - no mas mincing - dude said it's our offense and not good coaching
 

Dayman

ASFN Addict
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Posts
6,763
Reaction score
9,923
Location
Portland, Oregon
The ceiling of this offense is "good enough to make less mistakes than bad teams", but has zero plan on how to beat good teams. That's how you go 2-10 against teams with winning records.

This personnel group/FO is going nowhere.
Monti looked at this offense in the offseason and concluded that the only change necessary was adding a 32-year-old journeyman QB2. He does not get enough criticism for the current state of the team.
 

oaken1

Stone Cold
Banned from P+R
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Posts
23,968
Reaction score
24,685
Location
Modesto, California
Monti looked at this offense in the offseason and concluded that the only change necessary was adding a 32-year-old journeyman QB2. He does not get enough criticism for the current state of the team.
Eh....
Had we not lost Klayton Adams we are sitting at 4-0 right now.

Frye put a lot of kids into the league. It wasn't unreasonable to think he could have success in the NFL...it was just incorrect
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
16,601
Reaction score
38,564
Location
Orlando, FL
Eh....
Had we not lost Klayton Adams we are sitting at 4-0 right now.

Frye put a lot of kids into the league. It wasn't unreasonable to think he could have success in the NFL...it was just incorrect
Too soon
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
16,601
Reaction score
38,564
Location
Orlando, FL
Before you run Gannon out of town, you’d better consider who’s coming next. The attempts to get Reid and Payton should tell you even big offers are not going to get top coaches to work for Bidwill. I prefer to stay with Gannon for now. I like his philosophy and I think the team plays hard for him. He needs some staff changes, but don’t lose sight he’s a first time HC.

Being a first time Head Coach means a tough learning curve. The two toughest immediate tasks are assembling a coaching staff and evaluating players.

As to the staff, as a coach goes through his career aiming to be a Head Coach he encounters other coaches and typically assesses them mentally as to who might fit on his imagined staff. Choosing coordinators is obviously the most critical task. There are essentially 5 groups to choose from. Lower level coaches looking to move up. Former coordinators who are not under contract. Former Head Coaches who have lost that job and current coordinators teams are looking to let go. Finally, college coaches moving to the NFL. Most often the first choice is a guy moving up, like Petzing. Play design, game plans and calling plays are things a new OC has rarely, if ever, done. I think Petzing is an example of the Peter Principle. The job at present is beyond his capabilities. At season’s end, it’s time for a change. The options are greater then.

I see Rallis differently. Actually I thought last season, he did more with less. I’ve felt like this season he’s tried to hard to duplicate what Gannon did in Philly; using mostly a 4 man rush. He’s also seemed timid, especially on late game deciding drives. How you intentionally have Thompson, notably poor in coverage, single covering Kupp is beyond my understanding. The Cards assembled an outstanding set of pass rushers. Rallis has struggled to maximize their effectiveness. I believe he will figure it out, but the delay has been costly. I’d stay with him. He has likely hurt his chances of competing for a head coaching job by this year’s results. Still the defense is reasonably effective. If Rallis ever gets it at maximum efficiency he may yet be lured away.

Justin Frye is getting a great deal of heat about the Oline play. There almost always is a period of adjustment moving from college to the NFL. Again I’d urge patience, though waiting is painful. He’s been forced to make Adams work at G and he seems to lack an on field Oline leader. Adams may grow into his role, but for my money the passion alone makes Hernandez a superior performer when he can play. Another problem is Williams has returned from injury, but isn’t the same player. He seems too often to backpedal at the snap. He’s too easy to manipulate when he adopts that strategy. Johnson is still learning to play LT. Brown and Froholdt have limitations. On the whole Frye wasn’t dealt a great hand with which to start.

I’ve got no clue about Israel Woolfork, QB coach. Obviously I’m not pleased with Murray’s play, but I’m not sure anyone’s up to the task.

When it comes to players, I think the team has done a decent job of evaluating and developing players, especially on defense. The overall attitude of this team is definitely improved.

I like Gannon’s focus on defense. He needs a better offensive leader on the field. I’ll put something up on the possible QB resolution. Gannon needs Ossenfort to cooperate and give Gannon better offense personnel. I think it will take Gannon 2 more years to get the team the way he wants it. If 2 isn’t enough then I agree it’s time to move on.
 

speedy

the medic
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Posts
2,552
Reaction score
3,001
Location
Glendale
Before you run Gannon out of town, you’d better consider who’s coming next. The attempts to get Reid and Payton should tell you even big offers are not going to get top coaches to work for Bidwill. I prefer to stay with Gannon for now. I like his philosophy and I think the team plays hard for him. He needs some staff changes, but don’t lose sight he’s a first time HC.

Being a first time Head Coach means a tough learning curve. The two toughest immediate tasks are assembling a coaching staff and evaluating players.

As to the staff, as a coach goes through his career aiming to be a Head Coach he encounters other coaches and typically assesses them mentally as to who might fit on his imagined staff. Choosing coordinators is obviously the most critical task. There are essentially 5 groups to choose from. Lower level coaches looking to move up. Former coordinators who are not under contract. Former Head Coaches who have lost that job and current coordinators teams are looking to let go. Finally, college coaches moving to the NFL. Most often the first choice is a guy moving up, like Petzing. Play design, game plans and calling plays are things a new OC has rarely, if ever, done. I think Petzing is an example of the Peter Principle. The job at present is beyond his capabilities. At season’s end, it’s time for a change. The options are greater then.

I see Rallis differently. Actually I thought last season, he did more with less. I’ve felt like this season he’s tried to hard to duplicate what Gannon did in Philly; using mostly a 4 man rush. He’s also seemed timid, especially on late game deciding drives. How you intentionally have Thompson, notably poor in coverage, single covering Kupp is beyond my understanding. The Cards assembled an outstanding set of pass rushers. Rallis has struggled to maximize their effectiveness. I believe he will figure it out, but the delay has been costly. I’d stay with him. He has likely hurt his chances of competing for a head coaching job by this year’s results. Still the defense is reasonably effective. If Rallis ever gets it at maximum efficiency he may yet be lured away.

Justin Frye is getting a great deal of heat about the Oline play. There almost always is a period of adjustment moving from college to the NFL. Again I’d urge patience, though waiting is painful. He’s been forced to make Adams work at G and he seems to lack an on field Oline leader. Adams may grow into his role, but for my money the passion alone makes Hernandez a superior performer when he can play. Another problem is Williams has returned from injury, but isn’t the same player. He seems too often to backpedal at the snap. He’s too easy to manipulate when he adopts that strategy. Johnson is still learning to play LT. Brown and Froholdt have limitations. On the whole Frye wasn’t dealt a great hand with which to start.

I’ve got no clue about Israel Woolfork, QB coach. Obviously I’m not pleased with Murray’s play, but I’m not sure anyone’s up to the task.

When it comes to players, I think the team has done a decent job of evaluating and developing players, especially on defense. The overall attitude of this team is definitely improved.

I like Gannon’s focus on defense. He needs a better offensive leader on the field. I’ll put something up on the possible QB resolution. Gannon needs Ossenfort to cooperate and give Gannon better offense personnel. I think it will take Gannon 2 more years to get the team the way he wants it. If 2 isn’t enough then I agree it’s time to move on.
Reasonable to say the least.

we’ve had 12 head coaches since they got to the valley in 87 (38 yrs)

Mike Tomlin has been coaching the Steelers for 19 years of those years.

Our problem has never been because of any coaching staff.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
44,057
Reaction score
42,366
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Before you run Gannon out of town, you’d better consider who’s coming next. The attempts to get Reid and Payton should tell you even big offers are not going to get top coaches to work for Bidwill. I prefer to stay with Gannon for now. I like his philosophy and I think the team plays hard for him. He needs some staff changes, but don’t lose sight he’s a first time HC.

Being a first time Head Coach means a tough learning curve. The two toughest immediate tasks are assembling a coaching staff and evaluating players.

As to the staff, as a coach goes through his career aiming to be a Head Coach he encounters other coaches and typically assesses them mentally as to who might fit on his imagined staff. Choosing coordinators is obviously the most critical task. There are essentially 5 groups to choose from. Lower level coaches looking to move up. Former coordinators who are not under contract. Former Head Coaches who have lost that job and current coordinators teams are looking to let go. Finally, college coaches moving to the NFL. Most often the first choice is a guy moving up, like Petzing. Play design, game plans and calling plays are things a new OC has rarely, if ever, done. I think Petzing is an example of the Peter Principle. The job at present is beyond his capabilities. At season’s end, it’s time for a change. The options are greater then.

I see Rallis differently. Actually I thought last season, he did more with less. I’ve felt like this season he’s tried to hard to duplicate what Gannon did in Philly; using mostly a 4 man rush. He’s also seemed timid, especially on late game deciding drives. How you intentionally have Thompson, notably poor in coverage, single covering Kupp is beyond my understanding. The Cards assembled an outstanding set of pass rushers. Rallis has struggled to maximize their effectiveness. I believe he will figure it out, but the delay has been costly. I’d stay with him. He has likely hurt his chances of competing for a head coaching job by this year’s results. Still the defense is reasonably effective. If Rallis ever gets it at maximum efficiency he may yet be lured away.

Justin Frye is getting a great deal of heat about the Oline play. There almost always is a period of adjustment moving from college to the NFL. Again I’d urge patience, though waiting is painful. He’s been forced to make Adams work at G and he seems to lack an on field Oline leader. Adams may grow into his role, but for my money the passion alone makes Hernandez a superior performer when he can play. Another problem is Williams has returned from injury, but isn’t the same player. He seems too often to backpedal at the snap. He’s too easy to manipulate when he adopts that strategy. Johnson is still learning to play LT. Brown and Froholdt have limitations. On the whole Frye wasn’t dealt a great hand with which to start.

I’ve got no clue about Israel Woolfork, QB coach. Obviously I’m not pleased with Murray’s play, but I’m not sure anyone’s up to the task.

When it comes to players, I think the team has done a decent job of evaluating and developing players, especially on defense. The overall attitude of this team is definitely improved.

I like Gannon’s focus on defense. He needs a better offensive leader on the field. I’ll put something up on the possible QB resolution. Gannon needs Ossenfort to cooperate and give Gannon better offense personnel. I think it will take Gannon 2 more years to get the team the way he wants it. If 2 isn’t enough then I agree it’s time to move on.
So don’t change anything and hope another candle on the cake is all we need?
 

Crimson Warrior

Ready For The Next Chapter
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Posts
9,574
Reaction score
12,750
Location
Home of the Thunder
So don’t change anything and hope another candle on the cake is all we need?

Not very appetizing, but made perhaps a little more palatable if we agree that the team still appears to be firmly behind JG. They still appear to be playing hard for him.

I think we were appreciably out-talented on Thursday, but we hung around and had a chance to steal at the end. Some of that is coaching.

This may not be very compelling for you though kerouac9 however.

Still, there are a lot of data points coming up for 2025. Let's get a little more information before we do anything rash I say.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
70,629
Reaction score
69,524
Location
SoCal
Not very appetizing, but made perhaps a little more palatable if we agree that the team still appears to be firmly behind JG. They still appear to be playing hard for him.

I think we were appreciably out-talented on Thursday, but we hung around and had a chance to steal at the end. Some of that is coaching.

This may not be very compelling for you though kerouac9 however.

Still, there are a lot of data points coming up for 2025. Let's get a little more information before we do anything rash I say.
If we were “appreciably out-talented” than Monti has to go. Hes had three offseasons with an avalanche of picks and a mountain of self-made cap space.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,331,274
Posts
6,545,381
Members
6,431
Latest member
Arlene Lake
Top