Grade the Suns off season

[elindholm]

In addition to the Suns first and second round picks, they have added three additional first round picks and one second round pick all while adding talent.

I agree that they've done a good job and added picks, but I'm not sure about the "adding talent" part. Nash, Hill, and Lopez are gone, replaced by Dragic, Scola, Beasley, and Johnson. From a talent standpoint, that's a clear step backward, and I think that most people are expecting that the Suns will win fewer games this season than they would have by standing pat. The moves were still good ones, but there was a price.

 

[Mainstreet]

I agree that they've done a good job and added picks, but I'm not sure about the "adding talent" part. Nash, Hill, and Lopez are gone, replaced by Dragic, Scola, Beasley, and Johnson. From a talent standpoint, that's a clear step backward, and I think that most people are expecting that the Suns will win fewer games this season than they would have by standing pat. The moves were still good ones, but there was a price.

Agree, there is always a price to pay going forward (adding young talent), but IMO there was a bigger price to pay if the Suns stood still. There is no way father time would have been a friend of the Suns if they had not started to rebuild. Now the Suns need to find out which players can be a part of their future and which ones are not. As I look at it, there is not much downside as the Suns had not made the playoffs in 3 out of the last 4 years.

 

[SweetD]

I agree that they've done a good job and added picks, but I'm not sure about the "adding talent" part. Nash, Hill, and Lopez are gone, replaced by Dragic, Scola, Beasley, and Johnson. From a talent standpoint, that's a clear step backward, and I think that most people are expecting that the Suns will win fewer games this season than they would have by standing pat. The moves were still good ones, but there was a price.

I agree as of right now the Suns should loose more games but "Talent" wise is not that far off.

Nash > Dragic (Nash was a 2xMVP every team would take a step back on that)
Hill = Beasley (Stat wise, Hill is better person off the court)
Scola > Lopez (Plus this will also give more time for Morris to develop)
Johnson > Redd
Marshall =>? Telfair (Maybe not this year but as a backup he might be ok)
Brown/Dudley (No Change)
Frye (Moves further down the bench or plays his way off the bench)
Multiple Draft Picks (Look for us to stock pile big men)

 

[Phrazbit]

I agree as of right now the Suns should loose more games but "Talent" wise is not that far off.

Nash > Dragic (Nash was a 2xMVP every team would take a step back on that)
Hill = Beasley (Stat wise, Hill is better person off the court)
Scola > Lopez (Plus this will also give more time for Morris to develop)
Johnson > Redd
Marshall =>? Telfair (Maybe not this year but as a backup he might be ok)
Brown/Dudley (No Change)
Frye (Moves further down the bench or plays his way off the bench)
Multiple Draft Picks (Look for us to stock pile big men)

Its not that simple... Nash made so many of our current guys look a lot better than they actually are. There is no telling what we are going to get from our holdovers.

And Hill was a better player than Beasley... dramatically better when defense is factored in.

And... sadly, Johnson and the washed up under 40% shooting Redd are a wash until Johnson proves otherwise.

 

[leclerc]

I think when most people say "talent", they are referring to "young" and "having potential".

Nash and Grant Hill are off course more talented than most of the players we have now, but they're almost 40 and will only be slower and slower. Some of these new guys have the opportunity to make huge improvements given a new situation and a fresh start.

And by the way I chuckled at the "big forward" position of Channing Frye. It's funny because it's true.

 

[Joe Mama]

Bob Young, in his AzCentral/AzRepublic.com Heat Index column, did some interesting research concerning the Suns Player Efficiency Ratings for last season.

The Suns were higher than the league average. Guess who was the highest on the team. Not Steve Nash. It was Marcin Gortat. And still there are posters on this board who would be happy to give him away.

I got a kick out of how Young referred to Channing Frye.


Further testimony showing why we need to pickup a backup Center other than Frye.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/heatindex/articles/20120725suns-drowning-advanced-statistics.html

I feel like we've talked about this a lot, but there isn't a player on the roster who benefited from Steve Nash's presence as much as Gortat. His strength offensively is pick and roll, and Steve Nash is one of the best pick and roll point guards ever. If you think Dragic is going to make half those passes you are going to be really disappointed. Besides, don't remember anybody talking about giving away Gortat. Perhaps some of slin's draft trade proposals fit that bill.

Joe

 

[Phrazbit]

I feel like we've talked about this a lot, but there isn't a player on the roster who benefited from Steve Nash's presence as much as Gortat. His strength offensively is pick and roll, and Steve Nash is one of the best pick and roll point guards ever. If you think Dragic is going to make half those passes you are going to be really disappointed. Besides, don't remember anybody talking about giving away Gortat. Perhaps some of slin's draft trade proposals fit that bill.

Joe

I'm fine with giving Gortat away. We should sell him while his value his highest. But I would have prefered to do it during the draft. And unlike Slinslin, I wouldnt give him away for potato chips. He is still the best big on our team and one of the better centers in the league. I feel like by the time we are a competitive team again then Gortat will have gone to waste. Probably would be older and due for a new contract. Outside of a couple 30 win years, we will have gotten little return on the investment.

 

[Bodha]

Marshall, C. Cant tell yet. But hes been Terrible in summer league play.

Scola, B+. Good pickup. Perfect "role player". Hard on the boards.

Beasley, D or B+. Will see.

Dragic, A+.

Lopez and Warrick, A+.

Grant Hill, F. I know we are getting younger, but we needed to keep him for leadership.

Nash, B.


Overall: B

 

[devilalum]

I would have given them a B a few days ago but I think the last trade bumps it to an A.

They are going to suck this year but what a great start to moving on from the Nash era.
They're younger, they dumped all their bad contracts, they still have cap flexibility and they acquired some picks.

 

[Dr. Jones]

so you based your grade on whether the suns will get a top pick or not?

what about the fact that they added talent, got younger, and will have max money for someone in the near future? oh and we have picks too...

everyone was crying that we should move past nash. we did. we now have an athletic pg who can finish and dish, and play some decent D.

everyone was crying about hill being over the hill. he's gone.

everyone was crying about the bad contracts of warrick and childress.
childress is gone, and we'll just let warrick expire.

everyone was crying about our lack of toughness and post from lopez and frye. we went and got scola, he may flop but he'll still bang with the guys down low.

its a start and a better start than expected post Nash, and it happened so quick. we won't win much this year, but you have to start looking beyond this year. we can't expect immediate changes without signing some big time players.

i gave em an A.

First..... You are soooo jaded my friend.

My C grade is based on this.....

-We signed no one of significance.We spent money on Dragic, & Beasley. Two guys who are just barely good enough to be the 4th best player on a title contender.

What made it go from a D grade to a C.....

The Lopez/Johnson Trade.
The 4 picks we got out of thin air for Nash.

What almost made it an F.... We gave Nash to the Lakers.

OJ Mayo just told us to eff off even though we offered him more money. And he's OJ freaking Mayo! lol

We are a perennial 7 to 10 seed in the west with this roster. And I can't see a Max-level "championship-caliber" player who will be coming here. Therefore.... This is all just a bunch of drinking madness to think they deserve an "A". They are doing the best they can, but they didn't significantly change the roster for the better with this off season.

 

[Bodha]

-We signed no one of significance.We spent money on Dragic, & Beasley. Two guys who are just barely good enough to be the 4th best player on a title contender.

Im sorry Chris Paul wasnt available, we'll get em' next time around. Noone of significance? Who the heck was an option? Dragic was the absolute best option on the table and we took it. Sounds like a great move to me. Would you have preferred going into the season with Kendall Marshall as our starting PG? Wed have a shot at worst all time season record, thats for sure. He is terrible. Watch summer league. He can pass on fast breaks, and nothing else.

What almost made it an F.... We gave Nash to the Lakers.

youre absolutely right, we should have let Nash walk to Miami or Toronto or NY and got nothing for him in return. That would have been MUCH better.

And yes, your right, Nash going to the Lakers is the barrier to our championship. Had it not been for this trade, wed been raising a banner this time next year.

OJ Mayo just told us to eff off even though we offered him more money. And he's OJ freaking Mayo! lol

and that has what to do with us?....

Gordon, a much better player than Mayo, wanted more than anything to come here.

We are a perennial 7 to 10 seed in the west with this roster. And I can't see a Max-level "championship-caliber" player who will be coming here. Therefore.... This is all just a bunch of drinking madness to think they deserve an "A". They are doing the best they can, but they didn't significantly change the roster for the better with this off season.

You have this mindset that we failed because Dwight Howard isnt a Sun.

This is thread is an assessment of how we did this offseason. A fan of reasonable understanding can recognize that means "the best of our abilities". The Suns did the absolute best they could with the options they had, and therefore deserve a high grade.

 

[BC867]

We signed no one of significance. We spent money on Dragic, & Beasley. Two guys who are just barely good enough to be the 4th best player on a title contender.

I don't believe that you can categorize a Point Guard (or a quarterback in football) as the ___ best player on the team. It is such a unique and important position.

Shooting is important, but not all Point Guards are better than average. Defense is important, but we know that MVSteve was deficient in that.

But even a one-dimensional Point Guard being so important to half of the game (offense) doesn't need to be the ___ best overall player on the team. At least on teams without Michael Jordan.

 

[sunsfan88]

Im sorry Chris Paul wasnt available, we'll get em' next time around. Noone of significance? Who the heck was an option? Dragic was the absolute best option on the table and we took it. Sounds like a great move to me. Would you have preferred going into the season with Kendall Marshall as our starting PG? Wed have a shot at worst all time season record, thats for sure. He is terrible. Watch summer league. He can pass on fast breaks, and nothing else.



youre absolutely right, we should have let Nash walk to Miami or Toronto or NY and got nothing for him in return. That would have been MUCH better.

And yes, your right, Nash going to the Lakers is the barrier to our championship. Had it not been for this trade, wed been raising a banner this time next year.



and that has what to do with us?....

Gordon, a much better player than Mayo, wanted more than anything to come here.



You have this mindset that we failed because Dwight Howard isnt a Sun.

This is thread is an assessment of how we did this offseason. A fan of reasonable understanding can recognize that means "the best of our abilities". The Suns did the absolute best they could with the options they had, and therefore deserve a high grade.

Great post. I agree 100%.

 

[slinslin]

Demoting Leander gives them an instant A. Guess I can stop the petition now.

 

[95pro]

First..... You are soooo jaded my friend.

My C grade is based on this.....

-We signed no one of significance.We spent money on Dragic, & Beasley. Two guys who are just barely good enough to be the 4th best player on a title contender.

What made it go from a D grade to a C.....

The Lopez/Johnson Trade.
The 4 picks we got out of thin air for Nash.

What almost made it an F.... We gave Nash to the Lakers.

OJ Mayo just told us to eff off even though we offered him more money. And he's OJ freaking Mayo! lol

We are a perennial 7 to 10 seed in the west with this roster. And I can't see a Max-level "championship-caliber" player who will be coming here. Therefore.... This is all just a bunch of drinking madness to think they deserve an "A". They are doing the best they can, but they didn't significantly change the roster for the better with this off season.

you're so short sighted man.

yes nash was our best player for a long time. time to move on bud. doesn't matter where he went, we need to start a rebuild and this was a better start than assumed by many. i'm a fan of the suns, not players. crap like "nash or hill were my favorite players and they went to rivals..." doesn't bother me. they're going to be out of the league in a year or two, nash probably 3 but he'll be too old to matter much.

you have no vision as you're still riding on nash's jock. we all know there's no superstar on the team. tell me, besides dwight howard what else was out there that would be "significant"? you can't expect to build a contending team in one off season with the new cba, the players that were available, and the contracts that we were saddled with. its a start though to something more positive than the situation we've been in the past two years.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You win in one of two ways in this league..... You either suck so bad you get a top 5 pick in the draft. (Shaq, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron, Wade, Rose, etc).

OR.... You fleece a team so horribly in a trade that you are elevated to title contender status. (Lakers with Pau, Lakers with Shaq, Miami with Lebron, etc.)

Just because we replaced Childress, Lopez, & Nash with Beasley, Johnson, & Scola doesn't mean we deserve an A.

It means we are stuck in Neutral for another year. And our future flexibility might mean something to me if I trusted the man writing the checks.

Seriously..... We might have the most depressing roster in the NBA. Other than the most ardent supporters, who would be compelled to watch this? Or be compelled to see what they do next?

And trading Nash to the Lakers is disgusting. We got 1 or 2 marginally valuable first rounders, but now I have to watch him play for the Cowboys of the NBA for the next 2 or 3 years. Does anyone remember the Lakers putting up the stone wall when Shaq was sent to Miami? There was NO EFFING WAY they would trade Shaq to us even though we were offering up a ton of great pieces. And the picks we got in return? If any of them are in the top 15 I will be shocked.

 

[Phrazbit]

you're so short sighted man.

yes nash was our best player for a long time. time to move on bud. doesn't matter where he went, we need to start a rebuild and this was a better start than assumed by many. i'm a fan of the suns, not players. crap like "nash or hill were my favorite players and they went to rivals..." doesn't bother me. they're going to be out of the league in a year or two, nash probably 3 but he'll be too old to matter much.

you have no vision as you're still riding on nash's jock. we all know there's no superstar on the team. tell me, besides dwight howard what else was out there that would be "significant"? you can't expect to build a contending team in one off season with the new cba, the players that were available, and the contracts that we were saddled with. its a start though to something more positive than the situation we've been in the past two years.

The point is we chewed up a good chunk of cap space and didnt bring in any players who would be more than role players on a good team.

As the Cardinals learned with Kolb, throwing money at the "best guy available" doesnt help much if the best guy available isnt all that good. Sometimes you're better off holding out and waiting for better.

The team is going to be bad next year, dont fool yourself. Did we add pieces that can help us doing the road? In draft value, absolutely we did, but in terms of the rebuild our free agent signings are more likely to set us back than push us forward.

With the Lopez trade I'd bump us up to a C. I like what we've been able to swing in trades. Have 6 first round picks over the next 3 years is great. But at the same time we took enough money to sign a max player and instead dumped it into some pseudo bench players from lotto teams. Hopefully the team has the foresight to blow up the rest of the roster at midseason when its clear the playoffs are not realistic. That would bump their moves up to an A or B depending on what they get.

 

[sunsfan88]

Lakers are 0-3...those draft picks may turn out to be better than we originally thought.

And if that's the case then the Suns FO easily gets an A for the job they did this off season. Other than drafting Kendall Marshall and resigning Shannon Brown, they were spot on!