Good draft for Suns

[Irish]

I'm always leery when I hear how good a guy was in workouts, but in one of those videos Steve Kerr was talking about Lopez's shot. He said that was one of the things that impressed them was that he was much better than they expected at hitting that 10-15 foot shot in his workout.

Joe

I was not terribly high on Lopez prior to the draft, but I hated him a lot less than every other big (full 6''9" or better). I'd go through every profile I of this year's bigs and I'd stop as soon as I'd read phrases like: "doesn't play good defense", "doesn't play hard all the time", "soft", "below average rebounder", "needs to get a lot stronger", etc.

It seems like verybody was screeming for the Suns to play better defense and get tougher, but still want to draft guys who shoot pretty jump shots but won't get down and dirty. My hypothesis is that it is easier to teach skills than toughness. It ie exceptionally hard to teach pick and roll defense and the Suns tested him repeatedly on that part of his game.

The main knock on Robin has been that he's offensively challenged. He averaged 53.4% shooting in an offense where he was rarely passed the ball. Oddly, from the few videos I've seen, he apparently has good hands and is able to finish at the basket on the pick and roll. This is no "hands of stone" Stephen Hunter.

Most GM's insist on big men be either back to the basket guys or Dirk type shooter. But on the Suns, the core of their offense is the pick and roll; and he appears to be well suited for it.

But as Joe stated, the key point is that Robin appears to be much better shooter from the mid range than the Suns expected.

We've been hearing stories that Robin refused to work out for teams listed in the lottery, nor did he did workout at the combine either. The lottery teams had not seen what he could do when NOT deferring to his brother in the Stanford offense.

Why did he do that? He was explicit that he wanted to play for the Suns. He figured out that he had a very good chance of being a rotation player from game one on a very competative team.

 

[HooverDam]

Get this through your head: The Suns had ZERO dirt workers last year, the year before, and the year before that. The Suns don't need another scorer. They need someone to set picks, scrap for loose balls, and get out of the damn way so Amare and Nash can go to work.
.

What were Brian Skinner and Kurt Thomas?

I think perhaps I can better explain my frustrating with a sports analogy. Imagine the Suns are down by 3 with 5 seconds to go in a game. I think we'd all agree, they need to score a 3, regardless of it being a riskier shot. Throwing it inside for a wide open layup/dunk doesn't do them much good.

Because of the Suns past actions (trading away draft picks and having little to no future), I think the Suns are currently behind the 8 ball. They needed to gamble a bit more in the first round, they needed to try an off balance 3 pointer.

 

[Chaplin]

What were Brian Skinner and Kurt Thomas?

I think perhaps I can better explain my frustrating with a sports analogy. Imagine the Suns are down by 3 with 5 seconds to go in a game. I think we'd all agree, they need to score a 3, regardless of it being a riskier shot. Throwing it inside for a wide open layup/dunk doesn't do them much good.

Because of the Suns past actions (trading away draft picks and having little to no future), I think the Suns are currently behind the 8 ball. They needed to gamble a bit more in the first round, they needed to try an off balance 3 pointer.

That makes no sense when taking into consideration the mindset of the front office. As much as you and others hate it, the Suns are NOT rebuilding. They're adding pieces they felt they needed--and Robin's skill set was something they needed. If the Suns were rebuilding, they might have taken a chance, but they don't feel they are rebuilding. As a fan, you have to either accept it or move on.

I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand.

 

[HooverDam]

That makes no sense when taking into consideration the mindset of the front office. As much as you and others hate it, the Suns are NOT rebuilding. They're adding pieces they felt they needed--and Robin's skill set was something they needed. If the Suns were rebuilding, they might have taken a chance, but they don't feel they are rebuilding. As a fan, you have to either accept it or move on.

I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand.

If the front office of my favorite sports team is taking a plan of action that I dislike, I have to just shut up and deal? Got it. I thought I had the right to be frustrated, but I guess not.

Truthfully, by the time the season actually rolls around, I'll be over it and just accept it. For now, I'm going to be annoyed with Kerrs tactics, as I think they're lousy.

 

[Bigdez22]

Here is the way i see it..

We needed a wing,back up point guard, PGOF, and a back up big......

2 out of the 4 were done in the draft.....Thats what I call a good draft. I have watched enough of Lopez to be intrigued by his play. The draft is a gamble from 1 to 60.....

And how does anyone say the 2nd rounder sucks is beyond me. I watch a lot of basketball and I have never seen him play ,so unless they have some Euro basketball channel that i dont know about, anyone saying the kid sucks is a joke. who to believe.......some dude in his basement that does nbadraft.net or the Phoenix Suns???????? I will trust the Suns first.

 

[pokerface]

The last guy the Suns drafted at #15 was Steve Nash and frankly I was let down by it at the time. Just goes to show that any player should be given a chance to prove himself before he's judged.

You can never underestimate what NBA coaching can do for a player plus hard work and determination.

 

[Mainstreet]

Here is the way i see it..

We needed a wing,back up point guard, PGOF, and a back up big......

2 out of the 4 were done in the draft.....Thats what I call a good draft. I have watched enough of Lopez to be intrigued by his play. The draft is a gamble from 1 to 60.....

Actually, I think the Suns got everything but a wing providing Dragic can come over now.

 

[mojorizen7]

That makes no sense when taking into consideration the mindset of the front office. As much as you and others hate it, the Suns are NOT rebuilding. They're adding pieces they felt they needed--and Robin's skill set was something they needed. If the Suns were rebuilding, they might have taken a chance, but they don't feel they are rebuilding. As a fan, you have to either accept it or move on.

I'm not sure why that is so hard to understand.

IMO they should be rebuilding instead of tinkering. This roster is old,fragile and tired.

 

[JCSunsfan]

IMO they should be rebuilding instead of tinkering. This roster is old,fragile and tired.

I thought that about the Spurs on several occasions. Yet they keep tinkering and winning.

Amare is not old, LB is not old, Boris is not old. Raja is not over the hill either.

Yes, Shaq is old, Nash is getting older, and Grant Hill seems old.

Retooling is much better than rebuilding at this point.



You rebuild when it is absolutely, completely, clear you cannot compete for a championship. That may come this year. But I'd rather turn that corner at trade deadline time than now.

 

[mojorizen7]

I thought that about the Spurs on several occasions. Yet they keep tinkering and winning. You rebuild when it is absolutely, completely, clear you cannot compete for a championship. That may come this year. But I'd rather turn that corner at trade deadline time than now.

The SPURS were winning championships with their core group.
When i say rebuild i'm talking about blowing it up minus Amare,Shaq and the gorilla.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I was very concerned about the pick but I've never understood how people can read an internet blurb or two, watch a college game or two, listen to a sports talk show or two and then be adamant about their opinion versus the people that do this for a living. I haven't changed my opinion on Lopez but if I had to bet I'd place my money on the research the Suns staff has done and not on my own limited familiarity.

I usually get misunderstood when I try to make the above point. I'm not advocating that we should defer on all subjects to the experts at hand; I just don't understand how people can dismiss them so easily when there is usually such a wide gap in experience, knowledge and access.

Steve

Man, you were right. It's like reading my own posts. How about I post half as much and you keep it up?

YOu have to admit though. The experts seemed to agree with me. Bayless fell, and Lopez was picked high.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The SPURS were winning championships with their core group.
When i say rebuild i'm talking about blowing it up minus Amare,Shaq and the gorilla.

False.

Rebuilding is when you tear your team down--you become bad, so you can eventually become good again. That's what Reinsdorf did to the Bulls.

The only common denominator in the Spurs four championships in the last decade is Tim Duncan (and Popovich). They retooled on the move and remained competitive.

 

[mojorizen7]

False.

Rebuilding is when you tear your team down--you become bad, so you can eventually become good again. That's what Reinsdorf did to the Bulls.

The only common denominator in the Spurs four championships in the last decade is Tim Duncan (and Popovich). They retooled on the move and remained competitive.

Correct but what did i say thats false?

 

[SirStefan32]

I don't think you blow up a team if you have Steve Nash, Amare Stoudemire and Shaq, along with Hill, Bell, Diaw, Barbosa, etc.
That's still one hell of a team.

There are some things that this team needs- a point guard to back up Steve Nash, for example. However, I see no need to blow it up.

Anyway, my point is- Lopez is what he is- a backup for Shaq and Amare. He will play with energy, he will try to rebound and play defense (unlike Stoudemire, if I may say so), but at the end of the day, the best case scenario is that will do for us what Scott Pollard did for Sacramento when he backed up Vlade and C-Webb.

Now if they can sign Giricek and get a real PG, they'll be a very good team next year.

 

[Irish]

I can't really understant the "window is closed" argument. In the past four years, the Suns WORST record was 55 wins, but lost in the playoffs when Hill had a NON-JOINT related injury.

Considering the rought transition when Shaq came to the team, with Luck and better coaching, the Suns could have been right up there for the top slot in the West. The gloom and doom does not reflect what was actually happening on the floor.

But they didn't beat the Spurs! Yes, but look at that series. The Suns simply could not defend the pick and roll with Parker. So the Suns drafted the only guy in the draft who showed the ability to do that. Add in the effectiveness of Parker and Manu when under the baseke, their guy is also extremely long and an excellant shot blocker. I don't have Robin's stats, but his twin has a 9/5" standing reach.

Take away Parker and the first round has a very very different outcome.

The injury of Hill was a killer blow to the Suns. The Suns had a big lead in San Antonio until Hill got injured. In drafting Robin, the team will be able to move Diaw to small forward to back up Hill. In games 4 and 5, he showed he can defense Parker and overall had a good series (BTW far better than GG). But if it works, it is due to getting Robin.

IMHO, just these two moves alone will have a big impact on the Suns THIS YEAR. The Suns will not keep struggling with Boris being overwhelmed on defense and add someone who can rebound and block shots. If the Suns added a wing with Diaw's talent in the draft, everyone would be singin his prases even if he doesn't attack the basket all the time.

The point guard struggle remains the missing link, but there does seem to be a commitment to address it. Considering all, I'm not convinced they are so vastly far from getting over the hump.

Imagine all this and some defense too.

 

[mojorizen7]

I can't really understant the "window is closed" argument.

I can explain it to you if you'd like Irish.

 

[sunsallday]

Nobody can say our window is closed because the season hasn't even started. It sickens me on how everybody is on the blazers and lakers balls lately. I am not setting myself up for disappointment, but at least have faith in the team. At least give them a chance, and if they go far be proud at least. Don't give me that ''thats nice, but the Lakers and Blazers for the next ten years and so on.''

Did anybody expect the Lakers to even make it to the Finals. Anything can happen, so the window will always be open until the season starts. If we stink it up this year, then the window is closed and we start rebuilding to let it open again.

 

[Irish]

I can explain it to you if you'd like Irish.

Sure, please give me in detail all the reasons why it is IMPOSIBLE for the Suns to get to the finals this year. Totally and absolutely impossible to win a championship.

BTW, "explain" means giving real evidence and not just gibberish about how stupid Kerr is and how Sarrver wants the team to lose in order to torment long time fans. I'm looking for real detailed analysis that says that it is IMPOSSIBLE for te Suns to get better.

 

[Chaplin]

IMO they should be rebuilding instead of tinkering. This roster is old,fragile and tired.

That's irrelevant. I may agree, or I may disagree, but the Suns front office DEFINITELY disagrees with you, and that's what matters--at least when it comes to who they pick up/draft.

Again, I suppose people can spend all their time whining about it, but it's not going to change the fact that the philosophy of the Suns is VERY clear. Plenty of people disagree with it, but to whine and complain ad nauseum about it gets tiresome.

But no matter how you disagree, IF you take into consideration the Suns actual philosophy, then this draft was a slam dunk. Period.

 

[Irish]

That's irrelevant. I may agree, or I may disagree, but the Suns front office DEFINITELY disagrees with you, and that's what matters--at least when it comes to who they pick up/draft.

Again, I suppose people can spend all their time whining about it, but it's not going to change the fact that the philosophy of the Suns is VERY clear. Plenty of people disagree with it, but to whine and complain ad nauseum about it gets tiresome.

But no matter how you disagree, IF you take into consideration the Suns actual philosophy, then this draft was a slam dunk. Period.

If I'm the Suns FO, what I see is several older players who appear ready to play a couple more years. They have a PG who is still producing stats comparable to his MVP years. They have, a future HOF center who continues to a major low post offensive threat and can keep anyone from backing into the basket. They have a former First Team All NBA, all star team player, etc. who is now able to play PF. They have a former All star at SF who is the team's fourth option on offense and averages 13.3 ppg on 50.3% shooting. And they have one of the top defenders and three point shooters in the league at SG.

Their biggest problem in the playoffs was interior defense, so they drafted a shot blocking defense oriented center who excels at reacting to the pick and roll. Other backups include a former sixth man of the year and former "most improved player.

That is a lineup that is quite comparable on offense to the team that has won as many as 62 games in recent year with a lot more defense to come.

Yes, they have stuff that can be improved, but there is a lot of talent on this team and one of the best training staffs in the NBA.

 

[Joe Mama]

That's irrelevant. I may agree, or I may disagree, but the Suns front office DEFINITELY disagrees with you, and that's what matters--at least when it comes to who they pick up/draft.

Again, I suppose people can spend all their time whining about it, but it's not going to change the fact that the philosophy of the Suns is VERY clear. Plenty of people disagree with it, but to whine and complain ad nauseum about it gets tiresome.

But no matter how you disagree, IF you take into consideration the Suns actual philosophy, then this draft was a slam dunk. Period.

I don't know Chap. You make it sound like anybody who disagrees with the Phoenix Suns decisions and philosophies on basketball should just stop posting. I would like to here people's reasons for thinking that there is no way the Phoenix Suns can win the championship next year. I've been I think it's fair to say that their window is closing. I don't think it's completely shut though.

if the Phoenix Suns are really struggling without major injuries in January I think it's probably time to start the rebuilding process. I guess the question at that point is how far do you go. You trade Steve Nash? How about Amare Stoudemire?

Joe

 

[HooverDam]

How about Amare Stoudemire?

No. Amare is the future. He's the only hope the Suns have after O'Neal, Nash, Hill and Bell retire. Though, with as awful as Kerr is as a GM, I think its possible that Stoudemire will become the next Kevin Garnett, a talented big with not enough talent around him to win. He'll probably eventually break down and demand to be traded, or just leave in Free Agency.

 

[leclerc]

Too bad Joe left for Atlanta. I'd much rather have him and Amare than Amare, Diaw and Lopez... But it's over, I have to let it go.

 

[Joe Mama]

Too bad Joe left for Atlanta. I'd much rather have him and Amare than Amare, Diaw and Lopez... But it's over, I have to let it go.

It would also be nice to have Iguodala.

Joe Mama

 

[nowagimp]

If lopez is as good a defender as the suns brass seem to think, this is a good move. Here is why


rebuilding

Its not time to rebuild, suns dont have good picks coming up the next few years, one pick will not rebuild. Summer 2010, when big contracts expire is the time to rebuild, should be plenty of cap room to add some stars.


lopez value:

IF lopez is a quality defender and can play 15-18 mins, it will keep the '5' physical load OFF amares knees, and he will be able to wreak havoc at the '4' full time without getting beat up at the '5'. This should also help Diaw, by limiting his minutes defending stronger players, especially big post players that he usually draws when he plays alongside amare. Diaw will produce better if he defends guys more his size as the fatigue of defending a much bigger guy on the low block can be a real problem for a marion, or Diaw, or anyone. People who think Diaw dogged it dont realize that he ALWAYS had a tougher more physical defensive assignment than amare or perhaps any sun. This was because his versatility encouraged DA to misuse him at the '5'. Diaw was flat out a better on ball defender in the low block than skinner or amare, so he was abused and worn down by DA grappling with much bigger players in the post. He gets another chance in my book to show his value, now he can be the help defender on the '5', post up some 3's, 2's.

IF lopez can play the pick and roll and shoot foul shots, it will change the suns interior defense, and they can get stops to control momentum better in games. Amare wont be as easy to target defensively, and Diaw can be used more on the perimeter, matchups permitting.

With shaq and a 7' 255 lb backup, the suns will be able to be plenty physical, and shaq can be used more sparingly to keep him healthy for the playoffs. If lopez can catch a lob and dunk, he'll see those kinds of plays right off, and between nash, hill, and diaw, the suns have some guys who can get the ball to him where he needs it.

New backup PG:

This move is part rebuild/part now. IF this kid comes over this year, it would be very good for him to learn as fast as possible what nash knows. Its takes a few years to develop a PG, this is a great move if he comes over this year, and very good one for next. IF he doesnt come over this year, the suns have to get a backup, no more Leo at PG.


I, at first didnt like the lopez pick, and still I would like to wait and see what he brings before procaliming it a "great" pick. I like that they went out and dealt for a young PG, perhaps the PG of the future. Now they must get another perimeter shooter to keep the lane open for amare and Nash to operate. IF they do that and Lopez is productive, it will be a very good draft. But I wont call this a great draft until they get the PG over here, lopez shows he has it, and they sign that wing FA they need. If they cover those 3 bases, the suns have a shot to win a championship.