Good draft for Suns

[pokerface]

Pokerface made allusions to Amare Stoudemire in his opening post. How is that not overly optimistic?

What I said was....

"Robin may be raw on the offensive end but so was Amare at first so lets wait and see on how he develops."

Saying the dude is raw offensively (like Amare was) and waiting to see how he develops is "overly optimistic"? Did I say he would be like Amare or a scoring machine of some kind? All I was implying was he's not a scorer now but he could improve...Amare was known as just a dunker when he first came in the league and a lot of NBA fans didnt think he'd ever amount to anything more than that.

Hoover please don't distort my comments just to win your debate(s). I'm not comparing Robin to Amare...Are we clear on that?

 

[HooverDam]

I said you were making allusions to Amare. Not comparing Lopez to Amare. I did not put words in your mouth. I simply stated what happened. To even bring up Amare's name in the same paragraphs with Robin Lopez's is pretty ridiculous to me.

Perhaps I'm not the one who needs a dictionary?

 

[pokerface]

I said you were making allusions to Amare. Not comparing Lopez to Amare. I did not put words in your mouth. I simply stated what happened. To even bring up Amare's name in the same paragraphs with Robin Lopez's is pretty ridiculous to me.

Perhaps I'm not the one who needs a dictionary?

Maybe if you just quoted what I said there wouldnt be this discussion. But then again if you quoted me I wouldnt be looking "overly optimistic" like you want me to appear to be....then your feeble arguement would fall flat as it should.

 

[Cheesewater]

Sounds like we are on track doesn't it?

OMG yer right!!! What are we gonna do? The season starts in, like, 4 minutes. Oh no!!!!!!

It's absolutely comical to read these posts from armchair GMs whose basketball knowledge, as shown in their shrieks of "FAIL!" five minutes after the draft is over, must fit on the head of a pin compared to that of Terry Porter and Steve Kerr and David Griffin.

Fall on your swords already, the freaking out has gotten tiresome.

 

[HooverDam]

Maybe if you just quoted what I said there wouldnt be this discussion. But then again if you quoted me I wouldnt be looking "overly optimistic" like you want me to appear to be....then your feeble arguement would fall flat as it should.

My argument is as follows:

1. At the very best Robin Lopez projects to be an Anderson Varajao type
2. A smart team doesn't take such a player at 15
3. Fans shouldn't be excited or optimistic (overly, or otherwise) about such a pick.

Which of these points is pissing you off so much?

 

[pokerface]

OMG yer right!!! What are we gonna do? The season starts in, like, 4 minutes. Oh no!!!!!!

 

[HoodieBets]

My argument is as follows:

1. At the very best Robin Lopez projects to be an Anderson Varajao type
2. A smart team doesn't take such a player at 15
3. Fans shouldn't be excited or optimistic (overly, or otherwise) about such a pick.

Which of these points is pissing you off so much?

Ok since you did so much bitching who did you want them to take? Robin was good value at that pick at a position with horrible depth. Do you really think shaq will hold up a full season? Id rather see Robin than Skinner. FA will allow us to get that back-up PG and SF. Seemed like a no brainer pick to me knew it was gonna happen around pick 10. Dont get pissed until FA ends and we still havent done anything.

 

[HooverDam]

Ok since you did so much bitching who did you want them to take?

As I stated in another thread, thats a tricky question with out having the information the Suns front office had. What deals were available? They certainly could've moved up, but at what cost? Was the cost Diaw? Perhaps there was a deal on the table you or I would've done but Kerr passed on. Perhaps there were deals out there that could've been pursued that Kerr didn't think to offer, etc.

As far as if I had to take someone at 15, I would've preferred someone with SOME upside. This team needs a spark of energy, youth and a hope of some future (I think LB and Amare are 2 great pieces for the future, beyond that they don't have anything). I would've strongly considered Chris Douglas Roberts (who slid way too far), Batum, Donte Green or Darrell Arthur (though Arthur is a PF and wouldn't really fit any needs).

we still havent done anything.

Well that part I agree with

 

[JS22]

So in other words I'm supposed to take your "scouting" as gospel while ignoring what others say about him. Whatever....

Can I be optimistic for half a second without you slamming me?

Of course not! Soon enough you'll realize that Kerr is an idiot who knows nothing about basketball. 90% of the people on here would make better GM's than Kerr. No need to spend hours upon hours scouting a player, working him out, interviewing him, etc. Just watch a few games here and there and that's more than enough to be an expert as a GM.

My favorite part is how everyone ******* and moans that the Suns don't make any moves in the draft. Not even in the second round - because Kerr is such a bad GM that he can't get anyone to trade with him. And when they DO pull off a trade for a young, skilled, PG with potential it's apparently not good enough. Stupid move. Horrible player. Can't shoot. Won't ever make it in the NBA. Give him some freaking time to develop before crushing him.

I mean, come on. It's getting pretty ridiculous. I know you shouldn't drink the kool-aid 24/7, but it seems like some of you would be ecstatic if Stern removed the Suns from the league. Hell, it's better than putting up with "$arver" and Kerr, right?

 

[JCSunsfan]

It was a good draft. It is clear that they did what was necessary to get the players they wanted. Many might disagree with their choices, but that's another matter.

I am intrigued with the pg. Kerr says clearly he is intended to be Nash's heir. That's a pretty strong opinion. We never heard that about LB or Banks even though there was hope that might happen.

Consider this. The stuff I hear about Robin Lopez is the same stuff that kept Carlos Boozer from being drafted early. I was on record listing him as one of my "sleepers" before the draft.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It was a good draft. It is clear that they did what was necessary to get the players they wanted. Many might disagree with their choices, but that's another matter.

I am intrigued with the pg. Kerr says clearly he is intended to be Nash's heir. That's a pretty strong opinion. We never heard that about LB or Banks even though there was hope that might happen.

Consider this. The stuff I hear about Robin Lopez is the same stuff that kept Carlos Boozer from being drafted early. I was on record listing him as one of my "sleepers" before the draft.

I'm pretty sure Banks was signed to be Nash's backup, with the hope that he would take over for him once Nash retired.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm pretty sure Banks was signed to be Nash's backup, with the hope that he would take over for him once Nash retired.

That faint hope might have existed, but no one in Suns mgmt DECLARED he would be that.

 

[Covert Rain]

OMG yer right!!! What are we gonna do? The season starts in, like, 4 minutes. Oh no!!!!!!

It's absolutely comical to read these posts from armchair GMs whose basketball knowledge, as shown in their shrieks of "FAIL!" five minutes after the draft is over, must fit on the head of a pin compared to that of Terry Porter and Steve Kerr and David Griffin.

Fall on your swords already, the freaking out has gotten tiresome.

You know what is even more comical and tiresome? Comments from armchair critics of armchair GM's who don't bother to see comments like "If this team is not big in Free Agency or Trades this draft does nothing to help the Suns win a title this year".

Let me spell it out for you. This refers to the entire off season not "4 minutes" after the trade.

 

[Cheesewater]

It was a good draft. It is clear that they did what was necessary to get the players they wanted. Many might disagree with their choices, but that's another matter.

^This is exactly right. The Suns draft is bad if they didn't get who they wanted. If they didn't get who the FANS wanted, that's the fans' problem.

 

[Yuma]

Wow! What a war about this pick! Look, there aren't any Ewings, Olajawons, etc. in this draft. We needed a big. At #15, how many bigs left could play in our up speed system, or were better than Robin Lopez? The draft is what it is. I can see complete bitching if some super star center fell to our pick and we picked Lopez anyway. We had need for a center and we got was was best left on the board at #15, imho. How he develops is partially decided by how good our coaching staff is at this point forward.

The only bitching I can see should be our picking a PG, also a need, that may not ever play for us because of his contract situation. We should have got someone that could actually play for us, imho. If the Suns don't address getting Nash some help, we will continue the lulls in our games every time Nash goes out, allowing teams back into our games. We have swing players. I don't see why this keeps coming up that we need help with swing men. We really need center and PG help going into next season, imho. How we address the PG situation for next season will be my bitch. At least we tried to get someone at center, who looks to be decent, imho.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Consider this. The stuff I hear about Robin Lopez is the same stuff that kept Carlos Boozer from being drafted early. I was on record listing him as one of my "sleepers" before the draft.

I think the thing that bothers me the most is now I have to hope I'm wrong about Lopez. I wish I knew that the effort he showed late this last season is what we can expect and I ALWAYS give the Suns management the benefit of the doubt, but I'm still a bit concerned about this pick. Especially with Donte Green available when we picked. If you're going to take a "risk" pick I'd much rather shoot for the moon.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

Why are people complaining about free agency? IT DOESN'T EVEN START UNTIL TUESDAY!!!

Steeldog, I think you need to step back and take a deep breath--you and many like you are completely freaking out, and over something so lame as a #15 draft pick? Talk about overreacting.

Again, and maybe a lot of you people aren't understanding this, but one of our NEEDS (that most if not all of you AGREED was the case) is of a defensive minded big man. Now that we have one, you are crying? Why? You'd prefer Arthur or Greene, who are DEFINITELY projects. Lopez's skill set shows that he can be a contributor right away. And now that the point guard might not be able to contribute right away, it's a travesty and a waste of a pick. My God, you're all ticked off that our #15 pick is a player that can play right away and you're ticked that our 2nd rounder might NOT be able to play right away. Hypocrisy much??

 

[Chaplin]

I think the thing that bothers me the most is now I have to hope I'm wrong about Lopez. I wish I knew that the effort he showed late this last season is what we can expect and I ALWAYS give the Suns management the benefit of the doubt, but I'm still a bit concerned about this pick. Especially with Donte Green available when we picked. If you're going to take a "risk" pick I'd much rather shoot for the moon.

Steve

Steve, the point is that Lopez ISN'T a "risk" pick. The guy with his skill set can come in and play right away--he doesn't have a big learning curve like Darrell Arthur or Donte Green. He already knows what he needs to do on the floor, it's just a matter of putting it into practice. He'll never be a go-to guy on offense, so there's no need to get him acclimated to such a role.

 

[Covert Rain]

Why are people complaining about free agency? IT DOESN'T EVEN START UNTIL TUESDAY!!!

Steeldog, I think you need to step back and take a deep breath--you and many like you are completely freaking out, and over something so lame as a #15 draft pick? Talk about overreacting.

Chap before you start directing comments towards me maybe you should read the full context of what is being said. I specifically stated that I think the Suns needs to be more active in free agency and trades in the rest of the offseason.

I never stated the world is coming to end. Only that this draft did very little for our title hopes going into this next season. Anything more then that is reading into it. I can't speak for anybody else.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Steve, the point is that Lopez ISN'T a "risk" pick. The guy with his skill set can come in and play right away--he doesn't have a big learning curve like Darrell Arthur or Donte Green. He already knows what he needs to do on the floor, it's just a matter of putting it into practice. He'll never be a go-to guy on offense, so there's no need to get him acclimated to such a role.

I understand what you're saying but there were rumors/stories about his work ethic and his coachability at one time so I really don't know how else to view it other than as a "risk" pick. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to Stanford and Robin did look pretty good the few times I saw him late in the season but that's the kind of reputation that really worries me.

In all fairness though, it's pretty easy to get unjustly labeled these days so I guess I'll wait: wary but hopeful.

Steve

 

[justAndy]

I'm glad I don't follow college B Ball enough to get high or low on draft picks.
Some kids peak in college, some develop in the men's league.
The vehemence about draft picks is silly, IMNSHO.

 

[Joe Mama]

Have you seen Robin Lopez play? I have, in person, on multiple occasions. When slowish guys like Jeff Pendergraph are scoring on you with ease, quick big guys like Dirk, Gasol, Garnett, etc are going to tear you apart. Drink as much Kool Aid as you want, just notice that the people who have actually watched Pac 10 basketball think this pick is garbage.

First of all Robin Lopez will be defending centers in the NBA. He's not going to be defending Dirk Nowitzki or Kevin Garnett very often, and next year he probably won't be defending Gasol as they'll have Bynum back. Besides, nobody is saying he's going to be able to stop the best of the best from the NBA right off the bat. That's ridiculous.

I took a couple minutes to look quickly at the scoring opportunities for Jeff Pendergraph against Stanford from this past year. This is what happened.

February 14 - Pendergraph scored one time against Robin Lopez. It was a fadeaway baseline jumper from about 15 feet. Robin Lopez was the defender on three of his six misses.

January 19 - Pendergraph scored once against Robin Lopez. He made a nice baseline move on the left block for an and one. I forgot to look at his misses in this game before I shut down the window, but he was 3-10 for seven points.

So he scored twice against Robin Lopez in two games.

I'll be thrilled if Robin ends up at Anderson Varejao level, but there's a good chance he won't. Even if he does end up at about that level, 15 is still a high pick for a back up big, but whatever, can't change the pick now.

This is where we definitely disagree. #15 is the perfect place to get a backup seven footer. If he's even an occasional starter and decent defender it's a very good pick. I would be ecstatic if the Phoenix Suns got Varejao with the #15, and we are talking about a guy in Lopez who is 4 inches taller than Varejao.

Last thing, at scouting report from draft express you quoted said he was a good, but not great athlete. I take that to mean he is at least above average athletically, and again he's got great size. I just don't know what you are expecting here.

Joe

 

[hafey]

I understand what you're saying but there were rumors/stories about his work ethic and his coachability at one time so I really don't know how else to view it other than as a "risk" pick. I don't pay a whole lot of attention to Stanford and Robin did look pretty good the few times I saw him late in the season but that's the kind of reputation that really worries me.

In all fairness though, it's pretty easy to get unjustly labeled these days so I guess I'll wait: wary but hopeful.

Steve

It was actually his brother that was suspended for not attending class and then skipping some practices.

 

[mjb21aztd]

Man I was so hoping D.J Augistin or Baylass would fall to us at 15 but I guess since they didn't Lopez is a ok pick he will bring us a big body who can block shots and rebound some and is a ok defense player. No matter what pick you get at 15 he is going to be a project I just really hope Lopez pans out and stays on the team for more then two years.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It was actually his brother that was suspended for not attending class and then skipping some practices.

Yeah, but I remember hearing about problems with his attitude during his freshman season also. IIRC, both he and his brother were really outplayed by the opposing bigs in their tourney game and there was a lot of concern about Robin looking like he was sleepwalking during the game. It was shortly afterwards that the rumors really started making the rounds. I don't know, maybe I'm giving too much credence to rumors.

Steve