Gambo says...

[DevilsFan]

Worthy was a jump-shooter SF who had nice post-up moves as well. He wasn't a low-post scorer.

BTW, Worthy was a FAR better low-post scorer than Amare. Worthy had a devastating turnaround jumper, a great up and under move, and the aforementioned ultra-quick spin move that left defenders looking like they were wearing lead shoes. Amare is not a dominant post presence. He is a face-up scorer who can put the ball on the floor and run the pick and roll as well as any big who's ever played. He certainly has the tools to develop that aspect of his game, but he is not yet a great post-up scorer.

 

[hcsilla]

I didn't forget, it doesn't really matter. The point is that there have been instances of two dominant post players co-existing.

In your instance dominant post-up scorers did co-exist in such a way that one of them became less dominant and sacrified his game. That's why the question is legit whether it will be Amare or KG who does the same if the Amare-less trade for KG goes down.

 

[Covert Rain]

I really don't see Garnett as primarily a low-post scorer. If we were talking Stoudemire and Randolph (for instance) it would be completely different. Garnett is really a SF in a seven-foot frame.

 

[hcsilla]

I really don't see Garnett as primarily a low-post scorer. If we were talking Stoudemire and Randolph (for instance) it would be completely different. Garnett is really a SF in a seven-foot frame.

I disagree. Garnett is a PF. He played some SF in his early years in Minny but didn't do it since then.
He obviously has more range and mobility than Randolph (for instance) has but KG's operating area still dangerously covers Amare's.

 

[mribnik]

In your instance dominant post-up scorers did co-exist in such a way that one of them became less dominant and sacrified his game. That's why the question is legit whether it will be Amare or KG who does the same if the Amare-less trade for KG goes down.

I don't care if either Amare or KG's stats go down a bit. I thought the whole point about coexisting was whether two dominant post players (big players with similar games) could play together without one of them getting upset about losing touches. That was the case with Duncan and Robinson.

Of course, I wouldn't consider KG a low-post scorer so I think it's all moot. I wouldn't consider Amare a low-post scorer either, since the Suns decided not to give Amare many back-to-the-basket opportunities to help with his knees. However, Amare scores most of his points in the paint, so it's a similar idea. KG is more like Dirk than Amare.

 

[Covert Rain]

I disagree. Garnett is a PF. He played some SF in his early years in Minny but didn't do it since then.
He obviously has more range and mobility than Randolph (for instance) has but KG's operating area still dangerously covers Amare's.

I think his point is that KG doesn't play around the rim like a primary low post player. KG is much more of a jump shooter then Amare. Amare is more of a in the paint player post up or not.

The reason I think it could work is because if Amare is still your option on the pick and roll and it doesn't work, KG could easily hit the small jumper. I think their games could co-exist.

 

[Gaddabout]

He obviously has more range and mobility than Randolph (for instance) has but KG's operating area still dangerously covers Amare's.

If KG is going to get in Amare's way, one wonders how Amare avoided tripping all over Kurt Thomas in the San Antonio series.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

KG wants to play for the Suns. I think that's a good indication that he's willing to be the second option.

Besides, it's not like the Suns just throw the ball down to Amare and let him work. The first option is to give the ball to Nash and let him create the best shot for the team.

Regardless, KG and Amare can pretty much guarantee if the ball gets within 12 feet of the basket its going in one way or another.

 

[mribnik]

If KG is going to get in Amare's way, one wonders how Amare avoided tripping all over Kurt Thomas in the San Antonio series.

Yep, and Kurt Thomas has twice the ass that KG does.

 

[Covert Rain]

If KG is going to get in Amare's way, one wonders how Amare avoided tripping all over Kurt Thomas in the San Antonio series.

Especially considering how many time Kurt decided to park downtown and fill up the meter.

 

[hcsilla]

I don't care if either Amare or KG's stats go down a bit.

Neither I. But don't you think that they do?

 

[slinslin]

Garnett can pass.. He doesn't need a lot more shots than Marion. With his rebounding we should have a couple more posessions per game.

 

[Cheesebeef]

none of this debate matters IMO as I will play the role of ultimate pessimist here and go with the history of the NBA, where for some ridiculous reason, people have fallen all over themselves to help the Lakers for some reason, as they continually get the best picks/player available, from Wilt, to Kareem to Magic (how did they have the first pick in that draft?), to Worthy (again, how in the hell did they have one of the top picks in that draft) to Byron Scott (again, how the hell did they have one of the top picks in that draft) to getting Shaq and now, sadly, I believe... to getting KG.

Now, they got ALL of those guys through WILDLY different scenarios, but really, none of them made sense (except for Shaq) - how did a team trade Wilt? Trade Kareem? How did a team WITH Kareem have a draft pick high enough to get Magic? How did a team with Magic AND Kareem have a pick high enough to get Worthy? How did a team with Magic, Kareem AND Worthy, have a pick high enough to get Byron? I think, years from now, we'll be looking back again and asking: How did a team as talentless as the Lakers get KG? It just seems to be the way the story goes.

 

[hcsilla]

Garnett can pass.. He doesn't need a lot more shots than Marion.

Who is also satisfied with his role, right?

 

[elindholm]

Who is also satisfied with his role, right?

Marion is dissatisfied with his recognition, not with the number of points he puts up (I believe).

At this point I seriously doubt whether Garnett cares about scoring 20 points per game, as long as he's winning. He'd still be the leading rebounder (in the league, most likely) and the team's second assist man behind Nash.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

none of this debate matters IMO as I will play the role of ultimate pessimist here and go with the history of the NBA, where for some ridiculous reason, people have fallen all over themselves to help the Lakers for some reason, as they continually get the best picks/player available, from Wilt, to Kareem to Magic (how did they have the first pick in that draft?), to Worthy (again, how in the hell did they have one of the top picks in that draft) to Byron Scott (again, how the hell did they have one of the top picks in that draft) to getting Shaq and now, sadly, I believe... to getting KG.

Now, they got ALL of those guys through WILDLY different scenarios, but really, none of them made sense (except for Shaq) - how did a team trade Wilt? Trade Kareem? How did a team WITH Kareem have a draft pick high enough to get Magic? How did a team with Magic AND Kareem have a pick high enough to get Worthy? How did a team with Magic, Kareem AND Worthy, have a pick high enough to get Byron? I think, years from now, we'll be looking back again and asking: How did a team as talentless as the Lakers get KG? It just seems to be the way the story goes.

I agree 100%, you forgot Kobe, who said LA or bust and was given like a gift by the Hornets.

The GM's get caught up in the over hype of LA Laker players, IMO many GM's would rank Smush Parker as a top PT only because he is a Laker and known by the fans. It's all a farce and a lie.

 

[Gaddabout]

Who is also satisfied with his role, right?

KG us unlike Marion in that he's already recognized as one of the best players on the planet.

Now, if KG comes and doesn't get his touches and the Suns lose, that's another story.

 

[hcsilla]

Marion is dissatisfied with his recognition, not with the number of points he puts up (I believe).

Don't these two things have a correlation?

At this point I seriously doubt whether Garnett cares about scoring 20 points per game, as long as he's winning.

History tells that NBA stars usually do care their stats even if they are winning. KG may be the exception but what if he is not?

Will the Suns try to trade him next offseason for a draft pick and an expiring contract?

 

[elindholm]

History tells that NBA start usually do care their stats even if they are winning. KG may be the exception but what if he is not?

No move is without risks. What would you rather do instead? Stay with the current dysfunctional squad, where the highest paid player disappears in every critical offensive set and no one sheds a tear after farting away the franchise's best-ever opportunity to win a title?

 

[mribnik]

Don't these two things have a correlation?

Yes, and that's sorta the point. Marion's game "is what it is" and he hasn't done much to improve it over the years. He just wants to be the same player and get more recognition. He doesn't actually want to be "the man" or anything more than a third option (in which case he would get more recognition if he played well) otherwise he wouldn't have vetoed a trade to Boston.

 

[hcsilla]

No move is without risks. What would you rather do instead?

Focus on beating the Spurs while avoiding even more serious chemistry issues and keeping last season's team as impact as I can behind the necessary changes.

In other words trade Amare plus Thomas or Diaw for KG and if it's too much sacrifice from the future of the Suns then try to compensate it with adding #7, 24 and 29.

 

[elindholm]

Focus on beating the Spurs while avoiding even more serious chemistry issues and keeping last season's team as impact as I can behind the necessary changes.

In other words trade Amare plus Thomas or Diaw for KG and if it's too much sacrifice from the future of the Suns then try to compensate it with adding #7, 24 and 29.

I disagree that Stoudemire-for-Garnett would keep the team more intact than Marion-for-Garnett. As cheesebeef and others have pointed out, if you do Stoudemire for Garnett, you no longer have a dominant inside scorer.

 

[jlove]

Ok, so Gambo mentioned a couple of trades to get the Suns into the Top 10, with one being with the Grizzlies. Well, now a Memphis paper saying the Grizzlies are slated to add a young, but highly paid froncourt player to put next to Gasol. They mention Randolph and Nene. I'm going off the premise that they would be able to do a 3-way with the Suns and Portland.

Something along the lines of:
Portland:
Randolph
Jack

Suns:
Marion

Grizzlies:
Swift
Miller
#4 pick

Portland ends up with Marion
Grizzlies end up with Randolph
Suns end up with Swift, Miller, and #4.

Or maybe a 4-way with the Suns, Boston and Portland like:

Boston:
Ratliff
West
#5

Memphis:
Miller
Swift
Johnson
#4

Portland:
Randolph
Webster
Jack

Suns:
Marion
Banks
#24
#29
Atlanta 08 pick

Boston gets Miller, Jack, Webster, Atlanta 08 pick
Memphis gets Randolph, Ratliff, #24, #29
Portland gets Marion, Banks
Suns get Swift, Johnson, Ratliff, West, #4, #5

Either one leaves the Suns with Nash, Bell, Barbosa, Diaw, Amare, KT, Jr to work a deal for KG with (like Diaw, Ratliff, Johnson, Jr, #4, and #5.....or keep the damn picks and go Horford and Brewer....Horford and Conley.

 

[SunsTzu]

Magic (how did they have the first pick in that draft?), to Worthy (again, how in the hell did they have one of the top picks in that draft)

The Utah Jazz signed Lakers FA Gail Goodrich and at that time if you signed another teams FA they received compensation with draft picks.

I think Worthy was via the Cavs and the reason why teams can no longer trade consecutive draft picks.

 

[Nasser22]

During the Diamondbacks game, John Gambodoro said the Suns were close to trading KT and a pick for cap relief...not trading up, but just cap relief. Well we aren't beating the Spurs next year, that's for sure.