Encouraging Kyler Murray Trends

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
Plenty, but how many great QBs started their career with a worse record? I know Peyton Manning and Steve Young both fall into that category.

So are you grouping Murray in that category?IMO Murray
And there it is...

C'mon man...your just being combative at this point.

The ship has sailed...Murray played better than any rookie QB this franchise has ever had and one of the best rookie years of any QB.

You don't have to agree with giving up on Rosen.
You don't have to be a Murray fan boy.
You don't have to like that we only won 5 games this year vs 3 last year (improvement)
You don't even have to like the guy.
But you can't deny his talent/performance as a rookie (especially compared to Rosen last year).

If you are just having fun being an antagonist...fine.
But don't you want to enjoy being a Cardinals fan? We haven't had much to cheer about in the past 50 years.
Not being a antagonist.I just don't buy the hype machine or the line of thinking that KM is the savior.I have said several times KM has flashed great talent and other times he was bad Wh
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
Plenty, but how many great QBs started their career with a worse record? I know Peyton Manning and Steve Young both fall into that category.

So are you grouping Murray in that category?IMO Murray
And there it is...

C'mon man...your just being combative at this point.

The ship has sailed...Murray played better than any rookie QB this franchise has ever had and one of the best rookie years of any QB.

You don't have to agree with giving up on Rosen.
You don't have to be a Murray fan boy.
You don't have to like that we only won 5 games this year vs 3 last year (improvement)
You don't even have to like the guy.
But you can't deny his talent/performance as a rookie (especially compared to Rosen last year).

If you are just having fun being an antagonist...fine.
But don't you want to enjoy being a Cardinals fan? We haven't had much to cheer about in the past 50 years.
Not being a antagonist.I just don't buy the hype machine or the line of thinking that KM is the savior.I have said several times KM has flashed great talent and other times he was bad When I see more consistent play all around by KM then maybe .After being a fan for over 50 years being skeptical comes naturally.We have been fooled before.That's not being antagonistic or confrontational.... It is being realistic IMHO.
 
Last edited:

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
So are you grouping Murray in that category?
No just pointing out that basing your assessment of Kyler's play on how many wins he had is flawed. As can be seen by the fact that some HoF level QBs had worse records to start their career.

Despite what you may believe a team needs more than a QB to win games and the Cardinals had some very big deficiencies in other areas that really dragged the team down.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
I have never seen anybody use the word "savior" in association with Murray except for you.

You can debate his merits without creating an imaginary extreme position that no one holds. It doesn't strengthen your points in the debates about Murray you seem to so enjoy.
Seems to me that the usual suspects rush to defend their hero every time.I call it a realistic skeptical view.Last I heard that is still allowed .
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,647
Reaction score
20,903
So are you grouping Murray in that category?IMO Murray

Not being a antagonist.I just don't buy the hype machine or the line of thinking that KM is the savior.I have said several times KM has flashed great talent and other times he was bad Wh

I have never seen anyone use the word "savior" in association with Murray except for you. You can debate his merits without creating an imaginary extreme position that no one holds.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,647
Reaction score
20,903
Seems to me that the usual suspects rush to defend their hero every time.I call it a realistic skeptical view.Last I heard that is still allowed .

Yes, you are allowed to make stuff up. Like people calling Murray a savior.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
Yes, you are allowed to make stuff up. Like people calling Murray a savior.

So I just imagined " transcendent player" and " NFL changing QB"?
Pulled those out of thin air.Seems those were bandied about on these boards quite often before and after the draft by KMs loyal band of fans.It must really upset you that a few remain unconvinced..... Hopeful but unconvinced.
 
Last edited:

Zeno

Ancient
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Posts
15,513
Reaction score
5,219
Location
Fort Myers
Yes, you are allowed to make stuff up. Like people calling Murray a savior.

Well there were people that called him that as well as "transcendent", "generational" etc.

For the record I didn't want to draft him but I am glad we did, he showed enough for me as a rookie that I have hope moving forward. He has the talent to be top 10 in the league if he reaches his potential and that bodes well for the franchise.
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Posts
10,084
Reaction score
6,683
Location
Chandler
So I just imagined " transcendent player" and " NFL changing QB"?
Pulled those out of thin air.Seems those were bandied about on these boards quite often before and after the draft by KMs loyal band of fans.It must really upset you that a fee remain unconvinced..... Hopeful but unconvinced.

That was back in April. Please show where anyone on this board has said it since the season began.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
That was back in April. Please show where anyone on this board has said it since the season began.

Show me that it wasn't said.I don't care when.It was said and you know it The hype was there and you know it.
Don't have to show you squat The fact that it was said is enough.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
Seems to me that the usual suspects rush to defend their hero every time.I call it a realistic skeptical view.Last I heard that is still allowed .
When you make a flawed argument to try and prove your negative stance on Murray than people are going to call you out on it.
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
When you make a flawed argument to try and prove your negative stance on Murray than people are going to call you out on it.
So it's a negative stance because I don't think style points count for crap and instead prefer wins?If I think KM flashed talents but was inconsistent and didn't live up to the #1 pick that offends certain people...Looks to me that some people call out anybody that doesn't see all sunshine and lollipops with KM.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
So it's a negative stance because I don't think style points count for crap and instead prefer wins?If I think KM flashed talents but was inconsistent and didn't live up to the #1 pick that offends certain people...Looks to me that some people call out anybody that doesn't see all sunshine and lollipops with KM.
It's a negative and flawed stance because you are trying to hold Murray single handedly accountable for a stat that a whole team including coaches is responsible for, not just the QB.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,973
Reaction score
11,581
Location
Las Vegas, NV
Also, @BW52 is right about the overwhelming nonsense about Kyler in the offseason, but I'm more on board with the guy than him.
 

ajcardfan

I see you.
Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
36,647
Reaction score
20,903
Well there were people that called him that as well as "transcendent", "generational" etc.

For the record I didn't want to draft him but I am glad we did, he showed enough for me as a rookie that I have hope moving forward. He has the talent to be top 10 in the league if he reaches his potential and that bodes well for the franchise.

I don't remember any of that. Maybe I missed all the fun.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
Also, @BW52 is right about the overwhelming nonsense about Kyler in the offseason, but I'm more on board with the guy than him.
And there has been an overwhelming amount of undeserved negativity as well. Mostly around the same time as the "transcendent" comments were happening. I would guess that some of the comments from both sides were said to spite the other.
 

Solar7

Go Suns
Joined
May 18, 2002
Posts
10,973
Reaction score
11,581
Location
Las Vegas, NV
And there has been an overwhelming amount of undeserved negativity as well. Mostly around the same time as the "transcendent" comments were happening. I would guess that some of the comments from both sides were said to spite the other.
I suppose so, but by the nature of being a Cardinals board, it seemed overwhelmingly positive on Kyler Murray's side to me. I got blocked by multiple people, it was suggested I leave from mods... I'll admit, I feel a little bitter about that whole time period.

I don't think any people on his bandwagon were ever told they should leave, that they were bad fans, or that they were trolls. I was a little aggressive at times though, so it's behind me.
 

CardsSunsDbacks

Not So Skeptical
Joined
Aug 26, 2012
Posts
9,898
Reaction score
6,107
I suppose so, but by the nature of being a Cardinals board, it seemed overwhelmingly positive on Kyler Murray's side to me. I got blocked by multiple people, it was suggested I leave from mods... I'll admit, I feel a little bitter about that whole time period.

I don't think any people on his bandwagon were ever told they should leave, that they were bad fans, or that they were trolls. I was a little aggressive at times though, so it's behind me.
While I agree that fans shouldn't tell other fans to leave or how to be a fan, I will say that it would be pretty illogical for people to tell someone that is supportive of a player or the team to leave or that they are being a "bad fan".
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
59,876
Reaction score
51,175
Location
SoCal
Updated through the end of the season.

You must be registered for see images attach


Lots of ways to parse out this data, but for me it looks good that we actually finish the season going from almost 1/3 more 3 and outs per game to (about) below-average. Points per drive has also really surged, even making it to an average level against the 16th-ranked (Seattle) and 8th-ranked (LARM) defenses by DVOA on the road to end the year.
So interesting. The volatility is interesting too. Thank you for tracking all this k9!
 

BigRedRage

Reckless
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Posts
48,274
Reaction score
12,520
Location
SE valley
So I just imagined " transcendent player" and " NFL changing QB"?
Pulled those out of thin air.Seems those were bandied about on these boards quite often before and after the draft by KMs loyal band of fans.It must really upset you that a few remain unconvinced..... Hopeful but unconvinced.
It's weird that you let excited fanboys impact your own opinion making process.

Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
 

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
534,767
Posts
5,246,077
Members
6,273
Latest member
sarahmoose
Top