Edge, Hood, LaBoy cut

[Duckjake]

Why are those players gone? Because we are trying to upgrade those positions. You know, get better!

The only player we've lost this offseason that we might miss is Antonio Smith, IMO, and he wasn't actually a difference maker.

That's the key word. Trying. Nobody knows if it is going to work. Especially when they are relying on very young players and only one veteran Free Agent.

Except for LaBoy no one started for the Cardinals on opening day 2008 who hadn't been on the team the previous year for probably the first time in 250 years. Result: The most wins in one season in club history and the NFC Championship.

In 2003 the Cards had lost at least 7 veterans from the prior year and replaced them with rookies and free agents. Most of the vets, in the best interests of the team long term, had to go, but... The result: 4-12 and dead last in points scored and points allowed.

So I'll wait and see on these moves. Neither negative nor positive right now.

EDIT: OK, I know that 2003 was probably one of the worst defenses ever put on the field by an NFL team but it sounded good when I typed it.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

If that is the thought process, its called putting the cart before the horse. Your relying on rookies who havent even been fitted for a helmet yet. Thats the sort of reasoning that would make sense after training camp, not 4 months before it.

I dont neccessarily agree with that anymore. I used too for the old Cardinals but not anymore. I believe the Cards-and the NFL as a whole- has seen that a lot of these rookies are prepared enough that they can and will contribute from Day 1. The Cards had a cople last year in DRC and Hightower.

 

[joeshmo]

I dont neccessarily agree with that anymore. I used too for the old Cardinals but not anymore. I believe the Cards-and the NFL as a whole- has seen that a lot of these rookies are prepared enough that they can and will contribute from Day 1. The Cards had a cople last year in DRC and Hightower.

Its still a 50-50 proposition, and recent history proves as much.

 

[Totally_Red]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/52110

Well that explains why Hood was cut. $3 million for a backup is tough but liveable, $5.5 mill is WAY too much

Where is Stout with the apology?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

That is exactly why we are talking about this. We are now down 5 guys who contributed to the Super Bowl run (starting CB, starting RB, #1 or #2 OLB, starting DE, and our speed back and kick returner) and are banking on very young or new guys to replace them.

It is a risk. Probably a well calculated one based on Whisenhunt's results to date. But anytime a team takes a risk like this it is going to foster discussion, wonderment, and some dissent.

Yeah but...

Like I said in another post, if you believe in your system, believe in your coaches, and believe in your scouts, you are OK with replacing higher priced veterns with rookies and "castoffs".

I agree it is a risk, but more and more teams are willing to take that risk on young players due to their readiness and the "plug-and-play" systems of the NFL.

I dont have a problem with it at all...

 

[Renz]

That's the key word. Trying. Nobody knows if it is going to work. Especially when they are relying on very young players and only one veteran Free Agent.

Except for LaBoy no one started for the Cardinals on opening day 2008 who hadn't been on the team the previous year for probably the first time in 250 years. Result: The most wins in one season in club history and the NFC Championship.

Yeah, but we still finished 9-7. A lot of years we would have missed the playoffs with that record.

Just because we made a good playoff run doesn't mean there aren't areas for improvement. Standing pat would have been a big mistake, IMO.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I am not going to read through all these posts again so I apologize if this is a duplicate....

Interesting piece on Hood per Urban (via Somers)

UPDATE: Kent talked to Rod Hood, who explained he had hit a $2M incentive for his salary. That means Hood's 2009 salary would have been $5M and not $3M, and it adds another $2M in cap space to what the Cards cleared. Hood may have been too pricey as a backup at $3M; he was definitely too pricey at $5M.

edit: Okay I was waaaaaay to late the party.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah but...

Like I said in another post, if you believe in your system, believe in your coaches, and believe in your scouts, you are OK with replacing higher priced veterns with rookies and "castoffs".

I agree it is a risk, but more and more teams are willing to take that risk on young players due to their readiness and the "plug-and-play" systems of the NFL.

I dont have a problem with it at all...

Well I completely disagree with that. The Cards under McGinnis were seemingly always the youngest team in the NFL and always one of the worst teams.

Meanwhile the teams loaded with 5th and 6th year players were playing in SuperBowls and then when the Cards finally do get loaded with veteran players they play in one.

This also brings up an interesting point about readiness. With so many of the college teams playing spread offenses how ready are their guys going to be for the NFL?

 

[MrYeahBut]

ALT - 130 = é

é ñ á ó are all possible with the right ALT key by setting your standard American keyboard to US intenational in the control panel. I only know, because I type in Spanish alot and have a regular US keyboard

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, but we still finished 9-7. A lot of years we would have missed the playoffs with that record.

Just because we made a good playoff run doesn't mean there aren't areas for improvement. Standing pat would have been a big mistake, IMO.

We made a good playoff run because veteran players win in the post season.

The record was a direct result of getting to 7-3 and having a bajillion game lead in the division. From that point the Cards were 5-2 in games that mattered and held those 7 teams to an average of 78.4 ypg rushing losing only to the 13-3 Giants and AFC Champion Steelers .

Standing pat would have been not drafting a young stud RB or addressing the age at OLB or picking up guys to step in 2-3 years down the road.

The new guys have just as much chance to fail as they do to succeed. We'll see this fall.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

We made a good playoff run because veteran players win in the post season.

The record was a direct result of getting to 7-3 and having a bajillion game lead in the division. From that point the Cards were 5-2 in games that mattered and held those 7 teams to an average of 78.4 ypg rushing losing only to the 13-3 Giants and AFC Champion Steelers .

Standing pat would have been not drafting a young stud RB or addressing the age at OLB or picking up guys to step in 2-3 years down the road.

The new guys have just as much chance to fail as they do to succeed. We'll see this fall.

The key is that we still have vets in starter roles. But now we are allowing for faster development of the rookies by getting them meaningful 2nd team and even in game reps which they wouldn't get with Laboy and Hood here.

So now instead of Toler taking 3 years to blossom maybe after spot play this year and an offseason he is ready to play a meaningful role next year. Or maybe not. But there is no doubt in my mind those vets stunt their growth at least somewhat.

We still have a vet laden team - especially at those positions.

The problem is injuries and then what? The NFL is a battle of attrition. We are going to have to hope that Lott gets them ready for battle as well as he did last year.

But if you can't count in Laboy to play and Hood is costing 5.5 Million this all starts to make more sense.

 

[Pariah]

Just curious... who, aside from DRC was better at CB for the Cards last season than Hood?

No one...but the comparisons last season that were drawing rave reviews from ASFN weren't limited to the Cardinals.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

é ñ á ó are all possible with the right ALT key by setting your standard American keyboard to US intenational in the control panel. I only know, because I type in Spanish alot and have a regular US keyboard

Thanks

 

[Duckjake]

The key is that we still have vets in starter roles. But now we are allowing for faster development of the rookies by getting them meaningful 2nd team and even in game reps which they wouldn't get with Laboy and Hood here.

So now instead of Toler taking 3 years to blossom maybe after spot play this year and an offseason he is ready to play a meaningful role next year. Or maybe not. But there is no doubt in my mind those vets stunt their growth at least somewhat.

We still have a vet laden team - especially at those positions.

The problem is injuries and then what? The NFL is a battle of attrition. We are going to have to hope that Lott gets them ready for battle as well as he did last year.

But if you can't count in Laboy to play and Hood is costing 5.5 Million this all starts to make more sense.

Thanks for reminding me that we also lost our #1 backup at MLB in Beisel.

I understand what you mean about vets stunting the rookies growth somewhat but if that were really a problem the Steelers wouldn't be so successful.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Thanks for reminding me that we also lost our #1 backup at MLB in Beisel.

I understand what you mean about vets stunting the rookies growth somewhat but if that were really a problem the Steelers wouldn't be so successful.

Well they just cut Foote so Timmons would get more PT. Foote isn't exactly old.

 

[Duckjake]

Well they just cut Foote so Timmons would get more PT. Foote isn't exactly old.

The majority of the time when Pitt lets a guy go (Foote) they have a 2-3 year player (Timmons 2009 will be his 3rd season) who steps in apparently not too hampered by sitting behind a veteran.

 

[Stout]

Where is Stout with the apology?

There's nothing to apologize for. Everyone was touchy-feely happy about this move WITHOUT this information, and I sure in the heck wasn't. I simply reacted to what I thought was incredibly fallible logic, that people were pleased with cutting a good player at a reasonable salary for seemingly no reason. Now there's a pretty darn good reason it was done. So, why should I apologize? Oh, right, because my logic at the time was pretty damn sound.

 

[phillycard]

There's nothing to apologize for. Everyone was touchy-feely happy about this move WITHOUT this information, and I sure in the heck wasn't. I simply reacted to what I thought was incredibly fallible logic, that people were pleased with cutting a good player at a reasonable salary for seemingly no reason. Now there's a pretty darn good reason it was done. So, why should I apologize? Oh, right, because my logic at the time was pretty damn sound.

Stout, no need to apologize bro. I think 98% of us agreed with your sentiment completely. Given the facts it's still understandable, but at the same time, where is the contingency plan?? Money be damned. As it stands right now we are weaker at the position with Rod Hood gone until I see otherwise.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Well I completely disagree with that. The Cards under McGinnis were seemingly always the youngest team in the NFL and always one of the worst teams.

Meanwhile the teams loaded with 5th and 6th year players were playing in SuperBowls and then when the Cards finally do get loaded with veteran players they play in one.

This also brings up an interesting point about readiness. With so many of the college teams playing spread offenses how ready are their guys going to be for the NFL?

I am not sure why McGinnis is anywhere in this conversation. The Cards have a system now. They have scouts that talk to the coaches. They have Coaches who can actually coach up the players. McGinnis and company had none of that. Under McGinnis we couldnt get the flippin play into the QB on time.

However, if you believe in what Whiz is trying to do in AZ and look at the past success of the model he is trying to use (Steelers) then this is par for the course. Ask any Steelers fan, when Cowher and company started releasing or not resigning fan favorites and very production players, the Steeler fan base was livid. Now that they understand how the system works and have had historical success, they (as a whole) understand that there is another player "waiting in the wings".

I just think this is much ado about nothing....

 

[Crazy Canuck]

There's nothing to apologize for. Everyone was touchy-feely happy about this move WITHOUT this information, and I sure in the heck wasn't. I simply reacted to what I thought was incredibly fallible logic, that people were pleased with cutting a good player at a reasonable salary for seemingly no reason. Now there's a pretty darn good reason it was done. So, why should I apologize? Oh, right, because my logic at the time was pretty damn sound.

 

[Stout]

 

[WisconsinCard]

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/KentSomers/52110

Well that explains why Hood was cut. $3 million for a backup is tough but liveable, $5.5 mill is WAY too much

Hold the phone...Go back and read Somers' blog again. Now he said he has a source that says Hood didn't play 70% of the d-plays last year. Said he would know and write more tomorrow.

 

[187]

I saw this idea posted on another board and totally agree with it, so here are my thoughts on the situation with Hood being cut:

When we are in nickel formations we can have Antrel Rolle move into the nickel corner slot, which many will remember is where he had a lot of success 2 years ago (like the cinci game). We can have Rashad Johnson fill in for Rolle at free safety, he is very smart and talented so I strongly believe we will at least do a serviceable job there after training camp and the preseason. Then in dime formations we will have the same setup as nickel with Ralph Brown and Gregory Toler fighting for the #4 corner position.

Don't sleep on Rashad Johnson Cardinals fans, he is one hell of a player and had HUGE value in the 3rd round. I read somewhere that Whiz said he considered going for him in the 2nd round, but luckily for us he was still there in the 3rd. Antrel Rolle can play nickel corner (which he did last year at times) and Rashad Johnson should be able to step in as a rookie and make an impact in nickel and dime packages.

 

[Duckjake]

I am not sure why McGinnis is anywhere in this conversation. The Cards have a system now. They have scouts that talk to the coaches. They have Coaches who can actually coach up the players. McGinnis and company had none of that. Under McGinnis we couldnt get the flippin play into the QB on time.

However, if you believe in what Whiz is trying to do in AZ and look at the past success of the model he is trying to use (Steelers) then this is par for the course. Ask any Steelers fan, when Cowher and company started releasing or not resigning fan favorites and very production players, the Steeler fan base was livid. Now that they understand how the system works and have had historical success, they (as a whole) understand that there is another player "waiting in the wings".

I just think this is much ado about nothing....

How many of the starters in the Super Bowl for the Steelers were rookies or or guys in their first year with Pittsburgh?

There is a huge difference between playing rookies and replacing a vet with a guy who has been on your team for 2-3 years. That is all this is about. A debate about whether "plug and play" works especially if you are plugging in young players. Its not about whether Hood or LaBoy specifically should have been released.

BTW: Seems to me the Cards still have had a problem getting plays in on time under Whisenhunt.

 

[Duckjake]

Hold the phone...Go back and read Somers' blog again. Now he said he has a source that says Hood didn't play 70% of the d-plays last year. Said he would know and write more tomorrow.

Hood missed one game and two starts. But was that enough to miss more than 30% of the defensive snaps last year? I sure don't remember him being out of the lineup very often in the other 14 games.

Edit: Hood would have had to miss almost 300 snaps last season to fall below 70%. According to profootball-reference.com Cards opponents ran 993 plays during the 2008 regular season.