Diamond ... or Rough? Suns Unearth Something in Dragic

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An interesting article from ESPN
If you listen to Suns executives like Steve Kerr and David Griffin tell it, Slovenian point guard Goran Dragic is one hell of a point guard.


The 6-4 Dragic is so good, they say, that they might have taken him with the 15th pick of the first round.


And now, according to Paul Coro of the Arizona Republic, Goran Dragic will be in a Suns uniform this season, after lengthy negotiations to free him of his European contract.


While the Suns are not exactly a tight-fisted team -- payrolls have been high -- Phoenix has made several dubious cost-cutting measures in recent years. The team could have had the likes of Luol Deng, Rajon Rondo, Rudy Fernandez, and Sergio Rodriguez but sold or traded away the picks, to the profound frustration of fans in a hurry to see the team win a championship while Steve Nash is still one of the NBA's elite point guards.


But in the case of Dragic, the team has paid and paid and paid.
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They reportedly paid a half-million dollars to move up three spots in the second round to head off the Detroit Pistons, who were also said to be interested. Phoenix reportedly paid another half-million dollars to help buy him out of his European contract.


On top of that, speculation is that the Suns may have awarded Dragic one of the longest and richest contracts in the history of second-round picks. And, thanks to the luxury tax, the Suns will pay all of that money twice -- once to Dragic, and again to the NBA.


All of which makes you think: Dragic had better be good.


On that front, the Suns' brass has a lot of conviction. I love that. Identify the players you like and then -- everyone else's views be damned -- go get them.


Did you watch that behind-the-scenes video of the Suns war room on draft night? Griffin and Kerr either did an amazing job acting, or they really went into this draft with eyes for the two players they got: Robin Lopez and Goran Dragic.


He has been touted as Steve Nash's eventual successor.


But what if Steve Kerr and company are simply wrong?


They have more information than anyone. But based on the available evidence, there are some worrying signs.


ESPN's John Hollinger a method of using statistics to project European players' statistics into NBA numbers.


On that front, Dragic does not impress.


"His translated Euroleague stats from last year," says Hollinger, "are terrible."


"It's off a small sample (358 minutes), but it projects to 10.1 points and 5.6 assists per 40 minutes, 44.0% shooting, and a 8.38 PER."


An average NBA player has a PER of 15. In fairness, PER does not capture defense beyond blocks, steals, and rebounds. And defense is Dragic's calling card.


Nevertheless, put it all together, and what is Hollinger's assessment? "Yikes," he says. "Hardly seems worth all that trouble."
Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress has analyzed Dragic's play on the court, and he too wonders what all the fuss is about. Givony wonders if the money European are offering NBA-level players, and the fear that Dragic might never make it to the U.S., caused the Suns to panic a little. Givony e-mails:
It doesn't make a great deal of sense to me personally. I think Dragic is a solid prospect who could develop into a nice rotation player in two to three years, but the way people are talking, you would think he's going to be making a run for Rookie of the Year honors.


Right now Dragic is pretty much going to help you in one area only: defense. He is great at putting pressure on the ball, getting in the passing lanes, and getting his team extra possessions. He's going to struggle running an offense, though, and unlike a lot of combo guards these days, he's not going to make up for that with his perimeter shooting nor his ability to create his own shot.


I actually think Dragic would have been better suited staying in Europe for another season -- there were a lot of minutes to be had playing with Tau in both the Euroleague and ACB, and he probably needed that bridge between the NBA after the fairly underwhelming season he had with Olimpija last season.
The track record of players coming straight out of the Adriatic League and finding any kind of success in the NBA, especially immediate, is pretty much nil historically. (Nenad Krstic, Sasha Pavlovic, Vladimir Radmanovic are the only three I can think of out of a long line of failures). Now try to think of successful European point guards in the NBA ... outside of Tony Parker and Jose Calderon, it's slim pickings. That's why we're always going to approach these type of prospects with cautious expectations.


But I understand Phoenix's perspective. They've been severely overworking Steve Nash during the regular season in recent years, and considering that he's turning 35 this season, they can't afford to play him 34-35 minutes per game for 82-100+ games at the pace they play at. So they need a good backup. Problem is Dragic isn't ready for that in my mind. I'm not even sure how different he is compared to D.J. Strawberry actually.
The very same D.J. Strawberry, that is, who looked good in summer league as the athletic, tenacious guy who hounds scorers on the perimeter but is offensively challenged. How many of those can one team use?
Which all leads to an interesting question for Suns fans: Where is all this headed?


The team clearly did not click right off the bat with Shaquille O'Neal at the end of last season. Perhaps time together, a chip on the shoulder, and a new coach in Terry Porter will be good for some more wins.
But roster-wise, there haven't been any earth-shattering changes. The newcomers are Matt Barnes (who had fallen out of the rotation in Golden State), Lopez, and Dragic. There ought to be development from Strawberry and Alando Tucker.


The lion's share of the minutes, however, will still be consumed by Nash, O'Neal, Amare Stoudemire, Raja Bell, Leandro Barbosa, Grant Hill, and Boris Diaw. Increasingly, that is seeming like it is not enough to win the tough West.


On the other hand, with lofty expectations for Dragic, the puzzling trade for O'Neal, and a new style of play under Porter, the Suns may have succeeded in doing the impossible: Somehow they got more interesting over the summer when they lost Mike D'Antoni, who coaches the most entertaining style of play in the NBA.
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop...-Rough--Suns-Unearth-Something-in-Dragic.html
 

arwillan

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he makes a very good point to wrap it up. we have gotten more entertaining even though we lost Mike and run 'n' gun.
 

hsandhu

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Stat-dork john holligner doesn't like it, i feel much more confident about it now.
 

Irish

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None of this is "new". If you read Draft Express and nbadraft.net, there were certainly some discouraging words. But this analysis misses a key element. Dragic is very well suited to playing the open court.

No one has done a detailed analysis of his Adriadic League team that I can find. But it appears that team was just not that good. Point guards on weak teams do not put up the stats of ones on strong teams.However, he had pretty decent stats when playing for the Slovenian National team.

BTW, nbadraft.net mentions that Dragic is good at the pick and roll. There may be holes in his half court game, but he appears to be a lot better at it than Leandro. In that he can play defense and push the ball, he is likely to be quite a bit more valuable than the other guys available.
 
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Covert Rain

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Stat junk aside, I think some of the people commenting on the article hit it right on the head. I think Dragic more then likely will be a decent PG or end up being a solid rotation guy. I do not see him ever becoming an all star or star in the NBA. Just my opinion.

Having said that you have to give a guy a chance to learn from NBA level coaches and play against NBA level talent. Then and only then will you see what this guy can really do. I hope he is a diamond in the rough. The Suns have had some good luck in that department before. I am hoping but I won't be banking on it.
 

mojorizen7

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the puzzling trade for O'Neal
Why this trade is so puzzling to those outside of the PHX fan base is to be expected i guess. Haven't they been watching though?
The newcomers are Matt Barnes (who had fallen out of the rotation in Golden State),
He fell out of the rotation one night and fell right back into it the next...and so on,and so on.....its not like he didnt produce when given minutes:rolleyes:.
Right now Dragic is pretty much going to help you in one area only: defense.
Hmmmm...damn, thats not gonna help us at all here :sarcasm:
The very same D.J. Strawberry, that is, who looked good in summer league as the athletic, tenacious guy who hounds scorers on the perimeter but is offensively challenged. How many of those can one team use?
One. I don't think its a given that DJ suits up here this season if Dragic outperforms him in training camp/pre-season. Either way, IMO you can never have enough defenders on your team.
I think Dragic is a solid prospect who could develop into a nice rotation player in two to three years, but the way people are talking, you would think he's going to be making a run for Rookie of the Year honors.
Who's talking like this? Nobody on this forum IIRC and we've got our share of homers here.:)
 

Andrew

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I don't think you can successfully predict how a player is going to do in the league until they actually play. This is all hearsay, and while it might seem like an intelligent opinion, it is just that...an opinion.

We all will know soon enough if Dragic is Nash's successor or just another bench player.
 

msdundee

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he makes a very good point to wrap it up. we have gotten more entertaining even though we lost Mike and run 'n' gun.

He didn't say we've gotten more entertaining--he said we've gotten more interesting:
"Somehow they got more interesting over the summer when they lost Mike D'Antoni, who coaches the most entertaining style of play in the NBA."

I wouldn't necessarily take his comment as optimistic. "Interesting" covers a broad range of scenarios--including natural disasters and train wrecks.
 

Mainstreet

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Stat junk aside, I think some of the people commenting on the article hit it right on the head. I think Dragic more then likely will be a decent PG or end up being a solid rotation guy. I do not see him ever becoming an all star or star in the NBA. Just my opinion.

I have some great vibrations about Dragic. Even if he only becomes what you say, it is still pretty good considering the Suns haven't been able to fill the backup PG behind Nash for four years. The reasons I feel good about Dragic is his defense, his ability to take the ball to the basket, he has a nice shooting stroke to work with and I really like his attitude. Also I like how the Suns FO went after him strong and even showed him the money. Dragic could fail like any draft pick can, but the way the Suns went after him without hesitation gives me cause to believe. It seemed the Suns were just as much if not more hyped about selecting Dragic in the draft as Lopez. When Kerr spends a million dollars on a player before he is under contract, I listen.
 

arwillan

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He didn't say we've gotten more entertaining--he said we've gotten more interesting:
"Somehow they got more interesting over the summer when they lost Mike D'Antoni, who coaches the most entertaining style of play in the NBA."

I wouldn't necessarily take his comment as optimistic. "Interesting" covers a broad range of scenarios--including natural disasters and train wrecks.


clearly you didn't understand my point. i said we've gotten more entertaining even after losing mike. that is my own opinion. that is a totally separate thought from the first thing i said about how he made an interesting point to wrap it up. usually this type of situation is denoted with a period (.), as in my post.
 

cly2tw

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From the vids, Dragic seems light years better on offense than DJ. If he is close to DJ on defense, we got a good backup for Nash already.
 

msdundee

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clearly you didn't understand my point. i said we've gotten more entertaining even after losing mike. that is my own opinion. that is a totally separate thought from the first thing i said about how he made an interesting point to wrap it up. usually this type of situation is denoted with a period (.), as in my post.

Ah, my apologies then, but it should be easy to see why I misunderstood that the comment on his interesting point and your opinion were separate sentences and totally unrelated. Usually that type of situation is denoted with capital letters at the beginning of each sentence, as in my post.

It still seems logical that a team situation can be considered interesting, even over a month before training camp starts--a little harder to see how that situation could be called entertaining. I guess it just depends.
 

AceP

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If John Hollinger and his whatever stats system is anything remotely close to a player predicting tool, he would have been a top executive in the league and making at least 10M a year. Pity he is just a EPSN commentator with a salary not even close to 1/10 of 10M. So, who cares about him!

Drafting and signing player has always been a tricky and risky business. Greg Oden hasn't even played a single game for Portland. Have we heard their GM fired? We have to hold our breath for now, hope Dragic and Lopez prove themselves. Whatever result, leave Kerr and Griffin alone.
 
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Irish

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I'm probably the biggest stat guy on this board, but I find Hollinger to use stats blindly. My primary complaint is that he does not account for the rest of players on the team nor the type of offense the team runs.

One draft profile made a key point. Most Eruopean point guards fail because they are too small and not athletic enough. The kind of stats Holligner generates does not reflect that. Calderon is successful because he's big (6'3" 210) and athletic. Sarunas Jasikevicius is big, but slow and did not make it. But if you looked at Jasikevicius Euopean stats, I'm sure he graded out pretty well.

BTW, Nash is not all that athletic, but he makes up for it by running full out all the time on offense. Most guys cannot make good decisions while running at top speed. Nash is one of the very best at it.
 

Ollie

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Hollinger's stupidity will never cease to amaze me.

If evaluating players only by their stats wasn't moronic enough, he now projects European players' Euroleague statistics into NBA stats ?

Really clever, since most european prospects are either playing in a non-Euroleague team or aren't playing more than 10 min per game in Euroleague. By using this methodology, his "players-with-terrible-stats" list would have included Parker, Nowitzki, Kirilenko, Okur...

Irish said:
No one has done a detailed analysis of his Adriatic League team that I can find. But it appears that team was just not that good. Point guards on weak teams do not put up the stats of ones on strong teams.However, he had pretty decent stats when playing for the Slovenian National team.
Olimpija Ljubljana was a pretty bad Euroleague team last year (finished 4-10, first round elimination) and Dragic, despite his "unimpressive" stats, was their lone bright spot... with Marko Milic and his 280 pounds of fat (he probably dunk over bikes now...)
 

JCSunsfan

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Its an odd article since Dragic has seen some significant time on the Slovenian national team. The level of play on the international level teams is much higher and he has gone head to head with NBA players at that level.

Why would someone even bother to compare stats from the Adriatic league when there is a better comparison available?
 

Irish

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No way Dragic finishes first in ROY voting. He'll be second behind Robin Lopez. :)

Works for me.

ROY is usually a function of minutes played. Typically the ROY plays on a weak team because those are the teams with lottery pick AND can give rookies lots of minutes. Robin and Goran look to get more minutes than most playoff team picks, but some lottery guys will start.

None the less, it would be great if they played well enough to get ROY consideration.
 

nowagimp

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he makes a very good point to wrap it up. we have gotten more entertaining even though we lost Mike and run 'n' gun.

They are more entertaining than last years team even though they havent even played a preseason game? Must be slow writing about the NBA these days.
 
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