Darius Robinson

[ASUCHRIS]

Using bad data (which NFL people call PFF grades without exception that I’ve seen—not broadcasters for whom it’s #content) is worse than using no additional data.

Grading players when you don’t understand the assignment is dumb.

So you're saying that you can't glean anything from tape without knowing the specific assignments of each player on said play? Seems too reductive to me, but to each their own.

 

[Harry]

Most teams use their charting data. I don’t think anyone trusts their grading system. Why would they?

All 32 NFL teams use PFF. Since Chris Collinsworth started the company he’s gradually built a relationship with every team. In fact some teams clearly use their data in the draft. This may give you some idea of their reach

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[kerouac9]

So you're saying that you can't glean anything from tape without knowing the specific assignments of each player on said play? Seems too reductive to me, but to each their own.

No more than you can glean from actually knowing the specific assignments of the player. Which every team does when evaluating their own dudes.

Like, this is such a weird hill to die on.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Using bad data (which NFL people call PFF grades without exception that I’ve seen—not broadcasters for whom it’s #content) is worse than using no additional data.

Grading players when you don’t understand the assignment is dumb.

This is the item I go back to time and time again.

 

[Dayman]

So is anyone agreeing with Nick Rallis that Robinson has actually played well, or is this just another excuse to bag on PFF?

 

[GatorAZ]

I’m affirming he’s on topof my trade list. This is especially tricky since I’m expecting Thompson to leave. Fortunately I think there’s a reasonable chance Baker brings back a third round pick. Since safeties historically drop in the draft, a decent replacement could be secured. Holding Baker longer will only diminish his value.

Budda netting a third would be Monti’s greatest accomplishment to date.

 

[oaken1]

No more than you can glean from actually knowing the specific assignments of the player. Which every team does when evaluating their own dudes.

Like, this is such a weird hill to die on.

So, every draft scout in the world is just pulling it out of his ass. Awesome.

 

[oaken1]

This is the item I go back to time and time again.

Semantics.
On one hand I fully agree.
But you can still rate a guy based on hand placement, situational awareness, footwork, use of leverage, use of eyes...

Rating,...grading,....maybe it's the choice in verbiage?

 

[kerouac9]

So, every draft scout in the world is just pulling it out of his ass. Awesome.

Draft scouts are looking at traits and technique, and projecting forward. That’s not PFF grading.

 

[Chopper0080]

So is anyone agreeing with Nick Rallis that Robinson has actually played well, or is this just another excuse to bag on PFF?

I believe he has shown some improvement. It's not where anyone wants him to be but he has done better disengaging from blockers and making plays vs getting locked up with OL.

 

[Chopper0080]

Semantics.
On one hand I fully agree.
But you can still rate a guy based on hand placement, situational awareness, footwork, use of leverage, use of eyes...

Rating,...grading,....maybe it's the choice in verbiage?

I mean...I guess. But again, what you are describing a 3rd party doing is very similar to what BritCard was doing on Kyler. A team is not going to value that type of evaluation from others over their own self scouting because the third party does not have all of the necessary information.

 

[oaken1]

I mean...I guess. But again, what you are describing a 3rd party doing is very similar to what BritCard was doing on Kyler. A team is not going to value that type of evaluation from others over their own self scouting because the third party does not have all of the necessary information.

just like all their own guys dont have that information for all the college players they scout.

 

[Chopper0080]

just like all their own guys dont have that information for all the college players they scout.

Scouting college prospects has a different focus than evaluating internal pro prospects. It's very little evaluation and mostly projection.

 

[kerouac9]

just like all their own guys dont have that information for all the college players they scout.

They can (and often do) just ask the coaches.

 

[oaken1]

Scouting college prospects has a different focus than evaluating internal pro prospects. It's very little evaluation and mostly projection.

agree...but wasnt that what we were discussing??
Legit question, I may have misunderstood the topic entirely...but dont scouts now use grading/rrating systems similar to what pff has,...even if some of their methods of obtaining said grades is different?

I dunno...when I was a youth coach we held tryouts...hundreds of kids going through various drills...
I had a fancy sheet with all the players listed...and it all boiled down to a five star rating in four or five main topics...then a final rating...and sometimes a kid would only have 2 and 3 stars all down the sheet...but a final rating of five stars....the "IT" factor...sometimes the kid didnt stand out in anything other than I just knew he was a ball player.

point is I guess...any rating system is going to be subjective...there is no possible way to get hard data...you can get data on the result, but not on the process that led to it....have seen lots of guys that technically do everything wrong, or poorly...but somehow always win or make the play....and vice versa.

but rather its a pff grade, or a grade by my neighbor Miguel...or a pro scout with twenty years experience,..yourself, K9, cumulative DVOA, or Madden ratings..its all data points subjectively based on judgement and experience....the final decision will be based on trust(a rating system of its own)...but it seems to me a smart person will collect as many different data points as they can even if some are given less weight in the final decision.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Semantics.
On one hand I fully agree.
But you can still rate a guy based on hand placement, situational awareness, footwork, use of leverage, use of eyes...

Rating,...grading,....maybe it's the choice in verbiage?

I have no idea how this can be “semantics.”

Yes you can grade them on the components. I believe that’s what the scouts do. But that’s different from grading performance, which is what pff purports to do. You can’t know performance if you don’t know assignment.

 

[oaken1]

I have no idea how this can be “semantics.”

Yes you can grade them on the components. I believe that’s what the scouts do. But that’s different from grading performance, which is what pff purports to do. You can’t know performance if you don’t know assignment.

okay I gotcha...
I was totally failing on the context of the discussion.
I agree.

 

[Harry]

Budda netting a third would be Monti’s greatest accomplishment to date.

Baker’s main strengths are intangibles, like leadership. That’s badly needed even by some contenders.

 

[Harry]

They can (and often do) just ask the coaches.

You do talk to coaches, but some of them are more cheerleaders than critics. The higher their guys go in the draft, the more it helps their recruiting. Scouts, though most hate it, do have to rely a lot on films. Coach speak often depends on the coach’s reputation for being frank.

 

[cardncubfan]

You do talk to coaches, but some of them are more cheerleaders than critics. The higher their guys go in the draft, the more it helps their recruiting. Scouts, though most hate it, do have to rely a lot on films. Coach speak often depends on the coach’s reputation for being frank.

So they only talk to coaches named Frank?

 

[Ronin]

Darius Robinson Frustrated, But Still Confident

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Darius Robinson Frustrated, But Still Confident

He's frustrated, what about us?

 

[WeBlitz]

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[BullheadCardFan]

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[ASUCHRIS]

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1st round pick, literally one of the worst players in football. Thanks Monti!