Changes on the horizon

[GuernseyCard]

The Cards defense finished 31st in rushing attempts allowed.
28th in rushing \yards allowed.

The other teams ran on the Cards every game.The Cards only held Four opponets under 100 yards rushing all season.
A lousy run defense means the opponets don`t have to pass all the time.
Cards pass defense ranked in the top 10 because opponets shredded the Cards defense on the ground.
So calling Cards defense average is generous IMO.

The only stat the matters is points allowed, anything else is details.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Good thing I aint the owner of the Cards. I wouldn't give anyone, except a franchise top tier QB, the big money. I would have given Boldin the $8mil Fitz was making when he wanted it, but I wouldn't have resigned Fitz for $16 mil. Wouldn't have paid Dockett that much either. I would constantly be parlaying guys like Fitz and Dockett into multiple high draft choices when their reasonable contracts were nearing completion and they had given us their very best years. No way I pay the big bucks for the last half of guys careers.

I would want to always be in great draft and cap position to constantly be able to improve my team where needed most and be in position to grab a super star draftees when needed. I would rather spread those huge contracts around building a solid line and have solid players at every position. Would always want to have more great draft picks to improve my team each year and build better and better depth all the way around.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Cards defense finished 31st in rushing attempts allowed.
28th in rushing \yards allowed.

The other teams ran on the Cards every game.The Cards only held Four opponets under 100 yards rushing all season.
A lousy run defense means the opponets don`t have to pass all the time.
Cards pass defense ranked in the top 10 because opponets shredded the Cards defense on the ground.
So calling Cards defense average is generous IMO.

The stats are misleading - when your offense keeps handing the ball back to the other team, they're more likely to gain an early lead and protect that lead by rushing more often. The Total Rushing Yards Per Game stat gets inflated because there are more rushing attempts.

A more meaningful stat would be Yards Per Carry. Another stat to explore is Average Yards Per Carry Over 16 Games by Cardinal opponents compared to the other teams in the NFL (to determine whether the teams we played were more or less effective running the ball than average). I'm guessing we played tougher running teams than average.

Any of you stat-guys interested in checking this out?

 

[BW52]

The stats are misleading - when your offense keeps handing the ball back to the other team, they're more likely to gain an early lead and protect that lead by rushing more often. The Total Rushing Yards Per Game stat gets inflated because there are more rushing attempts.

A more meaningful stat would be Yards Per Carry. Another stat to explore is Average Yards Per Carry Over 16 Games by Cardinal opponents compared to the other teams in the NFL (to determine whether the teams we played were more or less effective running the ball than average). I'm guessing we played tougher running teams than average.

Any of you stat-guys interested in checking this out?

Cards defense allowed opponets to average 4.3 yards per carry.That ranked 22nd in the NFL.

 

[Duckjake]

Cards defense allowed opponets to average 4.3 yards per carry.That ranked 22nd in the NFL.

Oddly enough the Jacksonville Jaguars have finished in the top 11 in yards per attempt allowed by their defense the last two seasons. They're 7-25 over the last two seasons.

With over half the games decided by less than 10 points it seems to me it is how the probabilities break for you. In your favor you go to the playoffs. Not in your favor you stay home.

Which makes it so easy for the NFL to rig the games so the Patriots, Giants, Steelers etc. win all the time.

 

[BW52]

Oddly enough the Jacksonville Jaguars have finished in the top 11 in yards per attempt allowed by their defense the last two seasons. They're 7-25 over the last two seasons.

With over half the games decided by less than 10 points it seems to me it is how the probabilities break for you. In your favor you go to the playoffs. Not in your favor you stay home.

Which makes it so easy for the NFL to rig the games so the Patriots, Giants, Steelers etc. win all the time.

How bad was Jacksonvilles pass defense ranked? It had to be pretty bad.

 

[schutd]

13.8M in Bradley and Snyder. I know we've all talked about it ad nauseum, but to see it on paper, UGH.

 

[JeffGollin]

Cards defense allowed opponets to average 4.3 yards per carry.That ranked 22nd in the NFL.

I assume on the ground and not all offensive plays?

 

[BW52]

I assume on the ground and not all offensive plays?

on the ground Jeff.

 

[WildBB]

Cards defense allowed opponets to average 4.3 yards per carry.That ranked 22nd in the NFL.

Time to bulk up the gut some. DT and another hitter at SS possibly.

The Georgia kid could be available at 38. Jenkins.

 

[Chopper0080]

Cards defense allowed opponets to average 4.3 yards per carry.That ranked 22nd in the NFL.

and I couldn't care less. It is easier to scheme to stop the run than not having the personnel to stop the pass in a passing league. Also, with a competent offense, teams won't have the luxury of running the ball at will.

 

[Chopper0080]

Time to bulk up the gut some. DT and another hitter at SS possibly.

The Georgia kid could be available at 38. Jenkins.

Meh. Rush the passer, protect your QB and play great situational football. That is what you need to do to succeed in today's NFL. I think Dan Williams is a good player, but I have yet to see him decide games. Why continue to add big players who will be sitting on the bench in passing situations and only play a fraction of the defensive snaps. The best defensive lines aren't full of run stuffers. They are filled with long, lean rushers (even if they do use a bull rush).

 

[BW52]

Meh. Rush the passer, protect your QB and play great situational football. That is what you need to do to succeed in today's NFL. I think Dan Williams is a good player, but I have yet to see him decide games. Why continue to add big players who will be sitting on the bench in passing situations and only play a fraction of the defensive snaps. The best defensive lines aren't full of run stuffers. They are filled with long, lean rushers (even if they do use a bull rush).

So do you thinki the Cards are right in staying with the 3-4 which puts the pass rushing duties mainly on the LBs or should the Cards go to a 4-3?

 

[Lagerfilled]

The base defense doesn't really matter as much as do you have the horses to rush 4 and get pressure in the nickle. The base defense will be on the field a handful of plays and mostly on obvious run downs. The great / championship teams are able to rush 4 consistently and get pressure while dropping 7. Being able to influence the opposing QBs that pass 60-70% of the time is key.

 

[BW52]

The base defense doesn't really matter as much as do you have the horses to rush 4 and get pressure in the nickle. The base defense will be on the field a handful of plays and mostly on obvious run downs. The great / championship teams are able to rush 4 consistently and get pressure while dropping 7. Being able to influence the opposing QBs that pass 60-70% of the time is key.

as a fan who hates the 3-4 defense and thinks it wastes the talents of The D-line i hoped for a switch to the 4-3 and using Dockett as a passrushing DT and Williams as the stay at home plugger.Getting another DE with Campbell who has pass rush ability and can hold up versus the run like Okafor from Texas,Werner from FSU,Simon from Ohio State etc;

 

[GuernseyCard]

as a fan who hates the 3-4 defense and thinks it wastes the talents of The D-line i hoped for a switch to the 4-3 and using Dockett as a passrushing DT and Williams as the stay at home plugger.Getting another DE with Campbell who has pass rush ability and can hold up versus the run like Okafor from Texas,Werner from FSU,Simon from Ohio State etc;

There's a difference between the 2-gap Pittsburgh style of 3-4 and the one favoured by "D" coordinators who've learned the Parcells' system, which we will run. It creates more 1-gap responsibilities and attack lanes and it's why DD is enthused about the change.

 

[Mitch]

as a fan who hates the 3-4 defense and thinks it wastes the talents of The D-line i hoped for a switch to the 4-3 and using Dockett as a passrushing DT and Williams as the stay at home plugger.Getting another DE with Campbell who has pass rush ability and can hold up versus the run like Okafor from Texas,Werner from FSU,Simon from Ohio State etc;

The 3-4 is an odd man front to slow down the running game.

It's basically the Cardinals' running down defense---but, teams now pass so much on first down that 34 DCs have been opening games and series in 4 man fronts, the way Ray Horton did versus Atlanta.

Every team plays a 4 man front---which means every team needs rush DEs.

This is why it drives me crazy to hear fans say over and over, "Well, he's not a fit in the 34."

If he can pressure the QB from the DE position in a 4 man front---he's a fit on any team.

Very few 34 teams have been lucky enough to find 34OLBers who can slide down to DE and rush the passer from a 4 man rush...like the Steelers do with Woodley and Harrison....and the 49ers do with Brooks and Smith.

The Patriots were having a very difficult time getting DE pressure in their 4 man rush because their 34OLBers weren't big or strong enough to be effective rushing the edge at DE...

This is exactly why last year they drafted DE Chandler Jones in the 1st round. Jones will never play 34OLB---he is their RDE in passing situations, which these days is practically all the time.

 

[BW52]

The 3-4 is an odd man front to slow down the running game.

It's basically the Cardinals' running down defense---but, teams now pass so much on first down that 34 DCs have been opening games and series in 4 man fronts, the way Ray Horton did versus Atlanta.

Every team plays a 4 man front---which means every team needs rush DEs.

This is why it drives me crazy to hear fans say over and over, "Well, he's not a fit in the 34."

If he can pressure the QB from the DE position in a 4 man front---he's a fit on any team.

Very few 34 teams have been lucky enough to find 34OLBers who can slide down to DE and rush the passer from a 4 man rush...like the Steelers do with Woodley and Harrison....and the 49ers do with Brooks and Smith.

The Patriots were having a very difficult time getting DE pressure in their 4 man rush because their 34OLBers weren't big or strong enough to be effective rushing the edge at DE...

This is exactly why last year they drafted DE Chandler Jones in the 1st round. Jones will never play 34OLB---he is their RDE in passing situations, which these days is practically all the time.

So who can do that job in this draft? Dion Jordan? Mingo? Datone Jones ?
Simon? Werner seems like he might work?

 

[Mitch]

So who can do that job in this draft? Dion Jordan? Mingo? Datone Jones ?
Simon? Werner seems like he might work?

The player, imo, who has the best potential to be a 34OLB/4 man rush DE is Ezekiel Ansuh of BYU. He is 6'6" 270, yet supremely athletic and incredibly quick to the ball. He's raw---but has excellent instincts, and with a coach like Tom Pratt teaching him the techniques of pass rushing, he could be a superstar.

Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, Alex Okeafor and Datone Jones are good choices as well---as are Sam Montgomery of LSU and Corey Lemonier of Auburn...but in each case they seem better suited for one of the roles, but not both.

 

[BW52]

The player, imo, who has the best potential to be a 34OLB/4 man rush DE is Ezekiel Ansuh of BYU. He is 6'6" 270, yet supremely athletic and incredibly quick to the ball. He's raw---but has excellent instincts, and with a coach like Tom Pratt teaching him the techniques of pass rushing, he could be a superstar.

Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, Alex Okeafor and Datone Jones are good choices as well---as are Sam Montgomery of LSU and Corey Lemonier of Auburn...but in each case they seem better suited for one of the roles, but not both.

Since you mentioned Ansah i went back to a draft site and was reading his pros and cons and he does have potential to develop but can he be a difference maker playing against the best every week?
Jordan has the speed and lacks the bulk for DE
Damontre Moore same..lacks bulk
Mingo-will have to be pass rushing OLB
Werner-close but misses on hustle according to draft site
Datone Jones-has size and strength.lacks elite pass rusher moves
Carradine FSU-coming off injury (ACL)-had the hustle,power and burst before injury
Alex Okafor-strength,lacks elite pass rush skills Fits best as a LDE


nobody jumps out as having the perfect skill set to fill the job description Mitch.

 

[WildBB]

Meh. Rush the passer, protect your QB and play great situational football. That is what you need to do to succeed in today's NFL. I think Dan Williams is a good player, but I have yet to see him decide games. Why continue to add big players who will be sitting on the bench in passing situations and only play a fraction of the defensive snaps. The best defensive lines aren't full of run stuffers. They are filled with long, lean rushers (even if they do use a bull rush).

Yeah, I don't see Jenkins happening with Williams in the fold and them commiting to the 3-4 still. Jenkins however does do more than just sit there eating space. Hankins does that more.

Johnathan Jenkins – Georgia – 6’4/359

<>Finding a kid this big that moves as well as he does will raise the eyebrows of pretty much every talent evaluator. Jenkins fires out of his stance with a lot of power. Tough guy to control with just one blocker. When his job is to fire through and disrupt, he excels. Whole he is not the guy that can hold his ground against double teams at the point of attack, he attracts a lot of attention. That’s the most vital component to the defensive tackle position.

 

[WildBB]

The 3-4 is an odd man front to slow down the running game.

It's basically the Cardinals' running down defense---but, teams now pass so much on first down that 34 DCs have been opening games and series in 4 man fronts, the way Ray Horton did versus Atlanta.

Every team plays a 4 man front---which means every team needs rush DEs.

This is why it drives me crazy to hear fans say over and over, "Well, he's not a fit in the 34."

If he can pressure the QB from the DE position in a 4 man front---he's a fit on any team.

Very few 34 teams have been lucky enough to find 34OLBers who can slide down to DE and rush the passer from a 4 man rush...like the Steelers do with Woodley and Harrison....and the 49ers do with Brooks and Smith.

The Patriots were having a very difficult time getting DE pressure in their 4 man rush because their 34OLBers weren't big or strong enough to be effective rushing the edge at DE...

This is exactly why last year they drafted DE Chandler Jones in the 1st round. Jones will never play 34OLB---he is their RDE in passing situations, which these days is practically all the time.

Ok, so would DaMontre Moore be a good fit here?

 

[cardsfanmd]

Randy Moss was had for a 4th rounder and he was in his prime.

I value you as a poster but you and I both know this is off a bit. He was traded for a starting LB, a top ten pick and a late round selection when he was in his prime. Many people (albeit primarily within the Raiders' organization) thought Moss' skills were eroding quickly after two subpar seasons in Oakland.

 

[Mitch]

Ok, so would DaMontre Moore be a good fit here?

Without question, WBB. He is a classic edge pressure rusher. Strong and athletic.

But, it would be a huge surprise if he isn't taken in the top 5 picks, imo.

 

[Chopper0080]

I value you as a poster but you and I both know this is off a bit. He was traded for a starting LB, a top ten pick and a late round selection when he was in his prime. Many people (albeit primarily within the Raiders' organization) thought Moss' skills were eroding quickly after two subpar seasons in Oakland.

No people in Oakland thought he was a malcontent who would never work hard in the NFL again. He was 29 years old and went for over 1000 yards and 8 TDs the year before. He basically quit in Oakland which is why they traded him.

The point is a 29 year old, Hall of Fame WR was traded for a 4th round pick because he was considered a head case. How anyone can think you could get any more than that for Dockett who will be 32 next year (old for a defensive tackle) and carries a big contract number is beyond me. Also consider that Dockett can also be a bit of a head case.