Changes on the horizon

[JeffGollin]

Yeah, I don't see Jenkins happening with Williams in the fold and them commiting to the 3-4 still. Jenkins however does do more than just sit there eating space. Hankins does that more.

I'm a depth guy. NT is a physically demanding position. Assuming that our new prototype inside is a 320-325 lb. wide-body, we'll need at least one more big guy than Dan Williams.

 

[oaken1]

Since you mentioned Ansah i went back to a draft site and was reading his pros and cons and he does have potential to develop but can he be a difference maker playing against the best every week?
Jordan has the speed and lacks the bulk for DE
Damontre Moore same..lacks bulk
Mingo-will have to be pass rushing OLB
Werner-close but misses on hustle according to draft site
Datone Jones-has size and strength.lacks elite pass rusher moves
Carradine FSU-coming off injury (ACL)-had the hustle,power and burst before injury
Alex Okafor-strength,lacks elite pass rush skills Fits best as a LDE


nobody jumps out as having the perfect skill set to fill the job description Mitch.

which is why ansuh would be a fit.....skills can be taught...freakish talent and ability cannot.

 

[Chopper0080]

Ansah. Let's at least spell his name correctly.

 

[cardsfanmd]

No people in Oakland thought he was a malcontent who would never work hard in the NFL again. He was 29 years old and went for over 1000 yards and 8 TDs the year before. He basically quit in Oakland which is why they traded him.

The point is a 29 year old, Hall of Fame WR was traded for a 4th round pick because he was considered a head case. How anyone can think you could get any more than that for Dockett who will be 32 next year (old for a defensive tackle) and carries a big contract number is beyond me. Also consider that Dockett can also be a bit of a head case.

Wrong. The year before he went for 500yards and 3 TD's. Their coach was quotes in saying that Moss' skills had diminished faster than any player he had ever seen and he couldn't deal with.

 

[Mulli]

Wrong. The year before he went for 500yards and 3 TD's. Their coach was quotes in saying that Moss' skills had diminished faster than any player he had ever seen and he couldn't deal with.

How did Moss do the three seasons after the Patriots acquired him for a 4th? #prime.

 

[Chopper0080]

Wrong. The year before he went for 500yards and 3 TD's. Their coach was quotes in saying that Moss' skills had diminished faster than any player he had ever seen and he couldn't deal with.

His first of the two years in Oakland, Moss went for over a 1000 yards. Look it up. The year they traded him, he had a terrible year for a terrible team. The coach said his skills deteriorated but that caoch was fired and New England showed this was wrong. Moss was a guy who was great if you could get him the ball but was uninterested if you couldn't. That Oakland team was terrible and the coach couldn't get Moss to play. That is the truth to why he was traded despite what PR spin the Raiders tried to throw out there.

 

[Chopper0080]

Without question, WBB. He is a classic edge pressure rusher. Strong and athletic.

But, it would be a huge surprise if he isn't taken in the top 5 picks, imo.

Disagree. He struggled in 2011 when he played the stand up rush position that Vin Miller did. He was successful in 2012 when he played exclusively with his hand in the dirt. He has shown he is a 4-3 DE but will have size issues at 250lbs. Lane Johnson dominated him as well.

 

[Mitch]

Disagree. He struggled in 2011 when he played the stand up rush position that Vin Miller did. He was successful in 2012 when he played exclusively with his hand in the dirt. He has shown he is a 4-3 DE but will have size issues at 250lbs. Lane Johnson dominated him as well.

I am talking about hand in the dirt edge rusher, which is what we need for the 80% of the defensive snaps. He has all the tools. They show up big-time on tape.

 

[Chopper0080]

I am talking about hand in the dirt edge rusher, which is what we need for the 80% of the defensive snaps. He has all the tools. They show up big-time on tape.

We are a base 3-4 team, where are you getting the 80%? I would agree to maybe 40% of the defensive snaps are out of a 4 man front, but I don't see how he is on the field for 80% of the snaps with his hand in the dirt.

Also, what is the logic behind drafting a player at #7 who doesn't fit your base defense? And it isn't like Aldon Smith where he never played OLB in college. Moore has played OLB and was not very good at it. It is on film.

I like Moore and believe he can be a good player, but he is an undersized 4-3 DE and the film has proven this. Just my personal opinion, but I am not drafting a sub player in the top 10.

 

[Mitch]

We are a base 3-4 team, where are you getting the 80%? I would agree to maybe 40% of the defensive snaps are out of a 4 man front, but I don't see how he is on the field for 80% of the snaps with his hand in the dirt.

Also, what is the logic behind drafting a player at #7 who doesn't fit your base defense? And it isn't like Aldon Smith where he never played OLB in college. Moore has played OLB and was not very good at it. It is on film.

I like Moore and believe he can be a good player, but he is an undersized 4-3 DE and the film has proven this. Just my personal opinion, but I am not drafting a sub player in the top 10.

C'mon, man!

The 34 debate is moot and by now way too old.

The base defense really is what you play the majority of the snaps which, in everyone's case in the NFL is some version of a 4 man front---as in a 4-2-5 or 4-5-2 which the Cardinals lived in last year and even started games in like the one in Atlanta.

If a guy can rush the passer---he is a fit in any defense.

 

[kerouac9]

C'mon, man!

The 34 debate is moot and by now way too old.

The base defense really is what you play the majority of the snaps which, in everyone's case in the NFL is some version of a 4 man front---as in a 4-2-5 or 4-5-2 which the Cardinals lived in last year and even started games in like the one in Atlanta.

If a guy can rush the passer---he is a fit in any defense.

This isn't even factually correct. The Cards opened the Atlanta game in a 3-3-5 alignment and rushed 7.

Frankly, if you're going to maintain the positional and tactical flexibility that the zone blitz version of the 3-4 defense is about, you need more than a "pass rusher". You're theoretically willing to give up some advantage in 1-on-1 matchups with offensive tackles because you put schematic and intellectual pressure on the OL and QB to identify the additional blitzer(s).

 

[Duckjake]

We are a base 3-4 team, where are you getting the 80%? I would agree to maybe 40% of the defensive snaps are out of a 4 man front, but I don't see how he is on the field for 80% of the snaps with his hand in the dirt.

Also, what is the logic behind drafting a player at #7 who doesn't fit your base defense? And it isn't like Aldon Smith where he never played OLB in college. Moore has played OLB and was not very good at it. It is on film.

I like Moore and believe he can be a good player, but he is an undersized 4-3 DE and the film has proven this. Just my personal opinion, but I am not drafting a sub player in the top 10.

When did the Cardinals ever run a 4 man front? Maybe one game? No where near 40% of the snaps. The Cards base defense last year was the 2-4-5 which is why they were so weak vs the run and Dan Williams spent so much time on the bench. They were playing a Big XII defense. Which considering the NFL is a pass happy league is not a bad idea. Of course all these personnel discussions are really just fan talk because we have so little information on what the new coaches are going to want to do.

 

[cardsfanmd]

How did Moss do the three seasons after the Patriots acquired him for a 4th? #prime.

His first of the two years in Oakland, Moss went for over a 1000 yards. Look it up. The year they traded him, he had a terrible year for a terrible team. The coach said his skills deteriorated but that caoch was fired and New England showed this was wrong. Moss was a guy who was great if you could get him the ball but was uninterested if you couldn't. That Oakland team was terrible and the coach couldn't get Moss to play. That is the truth to why he was traded despite what PR spin the Raiders tried to throw out there.

So you guys mean to tell me that the most dangerous weapon in the history of the game was available in what everyone considered his prime and the highest bidder gave up only a fourth round pick? C'mon guys. Brandon Marshall (diagnosed bipolar and all) was worth a 2nd to Miami and Williams got two 1sts from Dallas. Give me an effing break. If it was league consensus that he was still in his prime, every team outside of the top 5 in April would have offered their #1 for him.

 

[Chopper0080]

When did the Cardinals ever run a 4 man front? Maybe one game? No where near 40% of the snaps. The Cards base defense last year was the 2-4-5 which is why they were so weak vs the run and Dan Williams spent so much time on the bench. They were playing a Big XII defense. Which considering the NFL is a pass happy league is not a bad idea. Of course all these personnel discussions are really just fan talk because we have so little information on what the new coaches are going to want to do.

I agree with you. My point was that at best, we run a 4 man front 40% of the time, not that it was true. Mitch made the statement that Moore would be able to play 80% of the defensive snaps with his hand in the dirt, and my point that it wasn't possible.

 

[Mulli]

So you guys mean to tell me that the most dangerous weapon in the history of the game was available in what everyone considered his prime and the highest bidder gave up only a fourth round pick? C'mon guys. Brandon Marshall (diagnosed bipolar and all) was worth a 2nd to Miami and Williams got two 1sts from Dallas. Give me an effing break. If it was league consensus that he was still in his prime, every team outside of the top 5 in April would have offered their #1 for him.

Look at his numbers with NE.

 

[Chopper0080]

So you guys mean to tell me that the most dangerous weapon in the history of the game was available in what everyone considered his prime and the highest bidder gave up only a fourth round pick? C'mon guys. Brandon Marshall (diagnosed bipolar and all) was worth a 2nd to Miami and Williams got two 1sts from Dallas. Give me an effing break. If it was league consensus that he was still in his prime, every team outside of the top 5 in April would have offered their #1 for him.

Yes, that is exactly what I am telling you. Most teams thought Moss was a huge headache and didn't want to take on his baggage. His skills were still there. A 4th round pick is pretty valuable to most teams.

 

[kerouac9]

So you guys mean to tell me that the most dangerous weapon in the history of the game was available in what everyone considered his prime and the highest bidder gave up only a fourth round pick? C'mon guys. Brandon Marshall (diagnosed bipolar and all) was worth a 2nd to Miami and Williams got two 1sts from Dallas. Give me an effing break. If it was league consensus that he was still in his prime, every team outside of the top 5 in April would have offered their #1 for him.

You identify the problem exactly here. The problem is not with the player, who clearly had a ton of skills and talent and production left in his body, but with the league consensus at the time of the trade.

 

[Mulli]

You identify the problem exactly here. The problem is not with the player, who clearly had a ton of skills and talent and production left in his body, but with the league consensus at the time of the trade.

This.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Look at his numbers with NE.

I'm not saying that he wasn't in his prime. I'm simply saying that it wasn't a consensus that he was.

 

[Mulli]

I'm not saying that he wasn't in his prime. I'm simply saying that it wasn't a consensus that he was.

Ok.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Ok.