Cardinals Head Coaching Candidates 2023

MrYeahBut

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I was refreshing the thread every 5 min during the Payton drama. Now I check a couple of times a day. Pretty much doesn't seem to matter who the coach is. I'll just read what you guys have to say about him and hang around waiting for the draft hoping the picks aren't like they have been under Kiem. It's a depressing point of view but that's where I'm at.
 

football karma

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The $13 million roster bonus for 2025 hasn’t been paid and will only be paid if the Cards try to wait until after 6/1/2025 if the try to get the advantage of moving Murray after that date. Typically those are paid in March.
pretty sure you can cut somebody in February and "designate it" a post June 1 cut

NFLPA and League did that because vets were being cut after June 1 -- after most teams had pretty much set their rosters.
 

BritCard

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None of those guys mandate their coaches sit down with them and watch a few hours of film every week. Most of the above don’t hover around the draft room and practice either. All of the above also invest significantly more money into their franchises and coaches than the Bidwill’s too.

The Bidwill’s have had a difficult time attracting coaches for decades. Coaches don’t want to be micromanaged by a clueless trust-funder

ALL of them are in the draft room. ALL of them hover occasionally around practice.

It wasn't a "few hours of film". Kliff and Vance said it was a few select plays and it was them explaining to Mike what was happening in the plays so he could understand. I don;t particularly like it but lets not exaggerate.
 

BritCard

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Much of the morning show was speculation that Kyler may be a big reason that potential hires are not interested in the Cardinals' job because they'll be tied to him for at least a couple of years.

They even played a podcast clip from last year which had Aaron Glenn cracking up at a "We know he doesn't study" comment directed at Kyler.

And, of course, this does go back to Bidwill being a horrible owner - because he chose to extend Kyler. Worst extension ever after the horrible collapse the season before including that awful playoff game, the circus with his agent, etc.

If we had a legitimate GM in place in recent years there is no way Kyler would have been extended but instead, we had a good buddy echo chamber who had just signed his own personal extension shortly before QB1 got his.

What a disaster.

The media can only say these things because this idea has been allowed to take hold for a year and nobody has refuted. Most crucial of which is Kyler himself.
 

Chopper0080

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I am curious. Does anyone on this board think Kyler Murray is more physically talented than Jay Cutler? Cutler was 5 inches taller, ran a 4.7, and had a stronger arm. Also super smart guy. Kyler is faster but also much smaller.

I say this because for all of the "untapped potential" spoken about Kyler, Cutler was also uber talented and didn't ever reach his potential and understanding why he didn't is relevant regarding Kyler.
 

Chopper0080

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Chopper0080, I think a lot of what you have written is correct concerning Kyler, unfortunately.

I do hope that we do bring in a head coach that will do most of, if not all of, the things you have listed.
It is a possibility. Like I said earlier, I am just over Kyler and his "untapped potential". I have watched enough football to understand that a lot of players never reach their "potential" and it rarely has to do with coaching for those who are very athletically gifted.
 

Chopper0080

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And Brady had Moss & Gronk, two of the better weapons in NFL history for at least more than half of his career.

Lets stop this narratives that QBs are playing at a high level with Walmart-workers as their WR1/TE1!

And no, this is NOT excusing Kyler’s pathetic play with Hopkins.
And this is kinda my point. Daniel Jones has outplayed Kyler over over the past 18 months with worse weapons than Kyler.

K9 said that it may and likely will change...I have my own opinions on that, but until it does, it is what it is.
 

Dayman

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https://www.youtube.com/live/Bo8Pc-CEISM?feature=share

This is a follow up interview with Tony Pauline. It starts at around the 23 minute mark. He doubles down on the Kyler rumors by saying that candidates want to bring in their own QBs, and the length of Kyler's contract prohibits them from doing so. He also says that a handful of candidates simply don't want to work for Bidwill.

Take it for what it's worth.
 

Chopper0080

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https://www.youtube.com/live/Bo8Pc-CEISM?feature=share

This is a follow up interview with Tony Pauline. It starts at around the 23 minute mark. He doubles down on the Kyler rumors by saying that candidates want to bring in their own QBs, and the length of Kyler's contract prohibits them from doing so. He also says that a handful of candidates simply don't want to work for Bidwill.

Take it for what it's worth.
This should not be a shock to anyone on this board. Some candidates have reservations about working with Bidwill and some candidates have reservations about working with Kyler and his contract. Coldest hot take out there.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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This should not be a shock to anyone on this board. Some candidates have reservations about working with Bidwill and some candidates have reservations about working with Kyler and his contract. Coldest hot take out there.
Anyone who'd rather work with Davis Mills, Sam Darnold, an unproven 1st round pick who's never played an NFL snap vs Kyler...or who doesn't understand how easily we can cut Kyler in 2 years relatively stress-free is a moron not worth hiring. I get Kyler has his challenges but anyone preferring the above or waiting to inherit a Burrow/Mahomes/Herbert type in his prime is either dumb or delusional.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Anyone who'd rather work with Davis Mills, Sam Darnold, an unproven 1st round pick who's never played an NFL snap vs Kyler...or who doesn't understand how easily we can cut Kyler in 2 years relatively stress-free is a moron not worth hiring. I get Kyler has his challenges but anyone preferring the above or waiting to inherit a Burrow/Mahomes/Herbert type in his prime is either dumb or delusional.
I agree with this.
 

Chopper0080

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It’s widely known that we have an easy out with Kyler after 2024. Any coach that doesn’t understand this is dumb to the point where he’d be a terrible hire.

At the same time if “fixing” Kyler is a mandate by Bidwill during these interviews well then that’s a massive ownership gaffe.
Here is where I push back on this. If a candidate is not 100% sold on Kyler, telling them that in two years they can try to start over at QB is not reassuring. Likely it will be after two seasons of losing if this scenario is going to be executed. Who likes this timeline?

2023 - First year, new scheme install. Probably can't count on Kyler to substantially contribute coming off ACL injury. Little cap space to significantly add talent to a lacking roster and some of the best players are older.

2024 - Kyler should be healthy but he has a cap hit of 51.8 mil. Between Kyler, Hopkins, Humphries, Ertz and Conner the cap hit is 117.7 million. Again, limited cap space to significantly add cap talent to a lacking roster due to those hits.

2025 - You can finally get off Kyler's contract but now have to figure out how to get a QB. You are likely coming off two bad seasons (but probably not top 5 pick bad) and best case scenario is that you have had unexpected luck in drafting and free agency where you have added legitimate players to a lacking roster with no missed or underachieving draft picks and no bad FA contracts. All of this done with a first time GM.

How many more years can you legitimately argue for this candidate to get in this scenario? And how many assets are you going to have to give up to try and get a QB who can actually make a difference and turn the tide?
 
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Chopper0080

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Anyone who'd rather work with Davis Mills, Sam Darnold, an unproven 1st round pick who's never played an NFL snap vs Kyler...or who doesn't understand how easily we can cut Kyler in 2 years relatively stress-free is a moron not worth hiring. I get Kyler has his challenges but anyone preferring the above or waiting to inherit a Burrow/Mahomes/Herbert type in his prime is either dumb or delusional.
Disagree. Having an unproven #1 pick enables you to build a roster that enables you to trade assets and get a better guy. If I go to Carolina, draft a QB, I can build an Eagles level roster and I have no problem hiding my QB because I can under that contract.
 

RON_IN_OC

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Here is where I push back on this. If a candidate is not 100% sold on Kyler, telling them that in two years they can try to start over at QB is not reassuring. Likely it will be after two seasons of losing if this scenario is going to be executed. Who likes this timeline?

2023 - First year, new scheme install. Probably can't count on Kyler to substantially contribute coming off ACL injury. Little cap space to add talent and some of the best players are older.

2024 - Kyler should be healthy but he has a cap hit of 51.8 mil. Between Kyler, Hopkins, Humphries, Ertz and Conner the cap hit is 117.7 million. Again, limited cap space due to those hits.

2025 - You can finally get off Kyler's contract but now have to figure out how to get a QB. You are likely coming off two bad seasons (but probably not top 5 pick bad) and best case scenario is that you have had unexpected luck in drafting and free agency where you have added legitimate players to a lacking roster with no missed or underachieving draft picks and no bad FA contracts. All of this done with a first time GM.

How many more years can you legitimately argue for this candidate to get in this scenario? And how many assets are you going to have to give up to try and get a QB who can actually make a difference and turn the tide?
IMO, any candidate coming in should already know the QB situation and their contract, so they shouldn't have to pitch themselves or be pitched around how or when you can dump Murray. Agents speak to one another...plus contracts are public record.

All they should care about is if Mike will give them 4-5 years to turn the ship around, like he gave Kliff.
 

BritCard

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Right because we lost a bunch of games to end the season.

No. It didn't come out because we lost a bunch of games.

It came out because of Kyler's contract demands, his scrubbing socials and his "memo" just before the combine. Which led to rumours circulating about him being difficult, not being a good leader, a rift with Kliff and culminated with the study clause.

None of which he has done anything to refute. With his mouth or his football.

How hard can it be to do a few 5 minute segments on Rich Eisen and GMFB and clear this up? All he has to say is "During a game week I'm doing 10-15 hours of independent film study. You have to. You can't win in this league without studying. We knew about the contract clause, it was something Steve Keim wanted to put in. With it being so low we just went with it. We didn't expect it to blow up like it did". Even if it's a lie, you say it.

Done. Game over. 5 minutes of his time stops a year of credibility destruction. What's harder? 5 minutes talking or countless hours trying to "prove it with his football"?
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Okay, lots to unpack. Let me start by saying Pauline’s not my friend. In 30 years we’ve probably conversed twice. I base his credibility on his professional history and what people I respect in this industry think of him. This is going to be long; sorry. Pieces like this have no place in this field.

My first question is what are this guys credentials? His website just says he’s written about the Seahawks for 20 years, apparently unpaid. He cites no other credentials. That does not mean his observations are by definition, inaccurate. I won’t stoop to labeling this article beyond saying it’s not journalism.

Joe goes back to 2016 and cites 41 rumors/predictions (10 proved accurate) Pauline offered. Since Pauline writes most weeks, does countless interviews (Google him) and most of those presentations include numerous rumors, citing 41 is not statistically significant to give an accurate evaluation. I’m sure he provides hundreds of rumors and predictions every year. I’m also not sure of the context. This week alone I’ve identified rumors as coming from questionable sources and sources I fully trusted. Next these are rumors. When I was writing for Rivals and Football Digest I was sometimes fed rumors, teams wanted out there. If the source did that repeatedly, I dropped them. Early on some got through and I can tell you if you ask the AZ Republic guys, they’ll tell you they’ve fallen victim to this. I’ve also had sources apologize to me for giving me wrong info. Typically the said they told me in good faith but something changed. I usually believed them. Again my ”rumor“ was wrong. In fact don’t many rumors about everything turn out to be wrong. How about predictions? I have no clue how many of those I’ve missed on, but this board has alerted me to several. How many us have done mocks that missed on 80%. I bet most draft gurus have. The late Dave Te stopped doing mocks because he missed so often. He actually underrated his success percentage. In the end I guess I’m also acting what’s a good number even for a professional?

Lastly I’ve asked several times, “If I get a rumor I can‘t substantiate, do you want me to post it?” The answer has always been post it. If that’s changed, let me know. I think Lou offered this in good faith. I just think it’s a bad piece and doesn’t deserve any prominence.
Always post it
 

Chopper0080

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IMO, any candidate coming in should already know the QB situation and their contract, so they shouldn't have to pitch themselves or be pitched around how or when you can dump Murray. Agents speak to one another...plus contracts are public record.

All they should care about is if Mike will give them 4-5 years to turn the ship around, like he gave Kliff.
Kliff made the playoffs and was, justifiably, fired after 4 seasons. 4-5 years is never guaranteed in the NFL.

(edited to add justifiably to ensure this doesn't get interpreted as Kliff was fired unfairly)
 

BritCard

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Here is where I push back on this. If a candidate is not 100% sold on Kyler, telling them that in two years they can try to start over at QB is not reassuring. Likely it will be after two seasons of losing if this scenario is going to be executed. Who likes this timeline?

2023 - First year, new scheme install. Probably can't count on Kyler to substantially contribute coming off ACL injury. Little cap space to significantly add talent to a lacking roster and some of the best players are older.

2024 - Kyler should be healthy but he has a cap hit of 51.8 mil. Between Kyler, Hopkins, Humphries, Ertz and Conner the cap hit is 117.7 million. Again, limited cap space to significantly add cap talent to a lacking roster due to those hits.

2025 - You can finally get off Kyler's contract but now have to figure out how to get a QB. You are likely coming off two bad seasons (but probably not top 5 pick bad) and best case scenario is that you have had unexpected luck in drafting and free agency where you have added legitimate players to a lacking roster with no missed or underachieving draft picks and no bad FA contracts. All of this done with a first time GM.

How many more years can you legitimately argue for this candidate to get in this scenario? And how many assets are you going to have to give up to try and get a QB who can actually make a difference and turn the tide?

A lot is being put on this being about Kyler's attitude. It might be more simple.

He's a mobile QB with a torn ACL. RG3 isn't that long ago. It's still recent enough to occur to people it's a potential problem. And Teddy Bridgewater was a starting QB before his ACL tear and has been a career backup/bridge since.

It's not unheard of for mobile QB's to struggle to fully return from an ACL injury. The odds are in his favour, but there is a not insignificant chance of there being an issue.

It was always a safer bet to replace Kliff once Kyler's injury and recovery was more clear.
 

kerouac9

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The only argument is that it's a complete crock that coaches / GM's / players don't want to come here because of Mike Bidwill. Or "The Cardinals" in general.

If Haslam, Khan, the Johnsons, and all the other guys I mentioned can attract the guys they wanted, there is no way that people are not coming here because of "The Bidwills".

It's a fan made narrative to rag on Mike.

Is Mike a bottom half owner in the league? Sure he is. Has it stopped anyone else attracting staff? No it hasn't.

It's not "coach/GMs/players" it's TOP people at those positions -- at least not without having to pay through the nose. Yes, Mark Davis can get Jon Gruden back, but he has to guarantee him $100 million and a 10-year contract to do so. Same with Josh McDaniels.

Yes, you can get all the Steve Wilkses you want on the basis of "there are only 32 of these jobs out there," but John Harbaugh isn't going to come here because he doesn't want to chill with the rube and go over his playcall on 3rd and 7 in the third quarter.

The $13 million roster bonus for 2025 hasn’t been paid and will only be paid if the Cards try to wait until after 6/1/2025 if the try to get the advantage of moving Murray after that date. Typically those are paid in March.

I don't know where you're seeing a $13 million 2025 roster bonus. Based on this, Kyler's 2025 salary and roster bonus are guaranteed on March 22, 2024. From a cash flow perspective, I'm pretty sure Michael has to drop that money into Escrow then.

His $33 million dead cap hit if released in 2025 (or before March 22) is the combination of the guaranteed salary, Bonus and roster bonus. Dunno if there are offsets if he signs elsewhere (in the NFL :devil: ), but that doesn't matter to this discussion.

pretty sure you can cut somebody in February and "designate it" a post June 1 cut

NFLPA and League did that because vets were being cut after June 1 -- after most teams had pretty much set their rosters.

Mmmm... I don't think so in February, because you're still in the prior league year. In March you can, but if you designate them a Post-June 1 cut, you still have to carry their contract to June 1 as if they're still on the roster. In Kyler's case, that would mean guaranteeing $36.8 million in 2026 compensation.

This is why a lot of guarantees are triggered at the start of the previous league year — it forces a decision.
 
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