Ayton or Doncic?

[Superbone]

The good news Ayton has something Amare didn’t have and that is Center size which you can’t teach and I have seen alter shots already.

Amare was a phenom offensively and I wish we had some of that offensive nasty on this team.

Agreed. I hope Ayton brings some of that as well.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Amare was not a smart defender and he was foul-prone so he often backed off, but i'd say his inclination was to be aggressive but it conflicted with his priority of staying in the game.

Ayton is tentative on offense and defense and that's ok at this early stage as he gets the feel of professional ball and elite players. but he should be encouraged to test his limits. foul out a few times. get a few charges. have his shot blocked occasionally

as is, he's shooting quicker than he needs to
and he's not challenging players on both sides of the court enough

 

[Suns_fan69]

Looks to me like the biggest problem for Ayton right now is trying to figure out when to rotate over to challenge a shot and when to stay home on his man. Because the defense breaks down so often he's put in that position quite a few times and you can see he hasn't quite dialed in when to do what. It puts him in no-mans land more often than not. Hopefully that will get better over time but the team has to help with that too.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Looks to me like the biggest problem for Ayton right now is trying to figure out when to rotate over to challenge a shot and when to stay home on his man. Because the defense breaks down so often he's put in that position quite a few times and you can see he hasn't quite dialed in when to do what. It puts him in no-mans land more often than not. Hopefully that will get better over time but the team has to help with that too.

Defensive rotations for big men is probably one of the hardest things to learn in the NBA. On top of that he is trying to avoid foul trouble so that he can stay on the floor. I think he is currently suffering from both being unsure about rotations and not wanting to be overaggressive contesting shots to avoid foul trouble. Hopefully we will see him get better in both areas as the season progresses. Looked a lot better in that regard in the preseason when he had no reason to worry much about fouls because the games didn't count.

 

[GatorAZ]

There is more to defense than blocking shots.

Nobody said there wasn’t but at least he wanted to swat the crap outta some people. Amare was fearless his rookie year.

 

[SirStefan32]

Nobody said there wasn’t but at least he wanted to swat the crap outta some people. Amare was fearless his rookie year.

Again, being fearless is not necessarily a good thing. Amare was a terrible defender throughout his career. Ayton jumping like a maniac and getting into foul trouble is not what I want to see. He is learning. It is not easy to know when to go for a block and when to stay on the player you are guarding. Ayton appears to be a very smart player. He is just very young and he doesn't have the physical advantage he had in college. He is already averaging 14 points per game, almost 11 rebounds, and 4 assists, while shooting 55% from the field and over 90% from the free-throw line. He is doing fine. The last thing I want him to do is play like a maniac.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Again, being fearless is not necessarily a good thing. Amare was a terrible defender throughout his career. Ayton jumping like a maniac and getting into foul trouble is not what I want to see. He is learning. It is not easy to know when to go for a block and when to stay on the player you are guarding. Ayton appears to be a very smart player. He is just very young and he doesn't have the physical advantage he had in college. He is already averaging 14 points per game, almost 11 rebounds, and 4 assists, while shooting 55% from the field and over 90% from the free-throw line. He is doing fine. The last thing I want him to do is play like a maniac.

I think worrying about foul trouble has a lot to do with it. He was far more aggressive protecting the basket in preseason when foul trouble wasn't as important, but in the real games he is trying to stay on the floor and is thus playing it more safe protecting the rim.

 

[GatorAZ]

Again, being fearless is not necessarily a good thing. Amare was a terrible defender throughout his career. Ayton jumping like a maniac and getting into foul trouble is not what I want to see. He is learning. It is not easy to know when to go for a block and when to stay on the player you are guarding. Ayton appears to be a very smart player. He is just very young and he doesn't have the physical advantage he had in college. He is already averaging 14 points per game, almost 11 rebounds, and 4 assists, while shooting 55% from the field and over 90% from the free-throw line. He is doing fine. The last thing I want him to do is play like a maniac.

I said fearless not maniac. Devin Booker is fearless and he’s not a terrible defender because of it.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think worrying about foul trouble has a lot to do with it. He was far more aggressive protecting the basket in preseason when foul trouble wasn't as important, but in the real games he is trying to stay on the floor and is thus playing it more safe protecting the rim.

I wouldn't read too much into this after three games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Again, being fearless is not necessarily a good thing. Amare was a terrible defender throughout his career. Ayton jumping like a maniac and getting into foul trouble is not what I want to see. He is learning. It is not easy to know when to go for a block and when to stay on the player you are guarding. Ayton appears to be a very smart player. He is just very young and he doesn't have the physical advantage he had in college. He is already averaging 14 points per game, almost 11 rebounds, and 4 assists, while shooting 55% from the field and over 90% from the free-throw line. He is doing fine. The last thing I want him to do is play like a maniac.

i agree. I just wish he had a little more natural instincts as a bona-fide rim protector... something that guys like Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem and even a guy like Alonzo all had as freshmen in college. It's not a huge knock on him. You know I think the kid's got sky-high talent and I am beyond happy about all that. He's just gonna have to work at the rim protector part of D a little harder than those guys who it seemed to come naturally to.

 

[sunsfan88]

i agree. I just wish he had a little more natural instincts as a bona-fide rim protector... something that guys like Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem and even a guy like Alonzo all had as freshmen in college. It's not a huge knock on him. You know I think the kid's got sky-high talent and I am beyond happy about all that. He's just gonna have to work at the rim protector part of D a little harder than those guys who it seemed to come naturally to.

Yeah it's surprising to see Marvin Bagley had more blocks in one game today than Ayton has through 3 games this season.

Overall, I do think Ayton will be an overall better defender than Bagley in due time.

 

[Phrazbit]

It is a nice change of pace to nit pick our first round selection for not challenging on a couple plays in the third game of his career where he had 20-14-5, meanwhile other high selections in recent history have left us wondering "Does this guy know how to play basketball?" a couple years into their career.

 

[taz02]

It is a nice change of pace to nit pick our first round selection for not challenging on a couple plays in the third game of his career where he had 20-14-5, meanwhile other high selections in recent history have left us wondering "Does this guy know how to play basketball?" a couple years into their career.

Yes, its funny we always want more, guess its human nature.

He is three games in, there is little doubt he will improve significantly. If/when he becomes more aggressive he will be unbelievable.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It is a nice change of pace to nit pick our first round selection for not challenging on a couple plays in the third game of his career where he had 20-14-5, meanwhile other high selections in recent history have left us wondering "Does this guy know how to play basketball?" a couple years into their career.

Actually the funny thing is that Ayton is still learning to play basketball himself.

The kid is a freak of nature.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Again, being fearless is not necessarily a good thing. Amare was a terrible defender throughout his career. Ayton jumping like a maniac and getting into foul trouble is not what I want to see. He is learning. It is not easy to know when to go for a block and when to stay on the player you are guarding. Ayton appears to be a very smart player. He is just very young and he doesn't have the physical advantage he had in college. He is already averaging 14 points per game, almost 11 rebounds, and 4 assists, while shooting 55% from the field and over 90% from the free-throw line. He is doing fine. The last thing I want him to do is play like a maniac.

I agree, one of the pleasant surprises in the preseason with Ayton was that on most (all?) of the blocks he had, the team was able to retain possession. Compare that to a young Dwight (first example who comes to mind) that was very emphatic with his blocks, often sending it to the third row and giving it back to the offense.

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One other note, Jackson was so good in the 2 man game with Ayton.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It is a nice change of pace to nit pick our first round selection for not challenging on a couple plays in the third game of his career where he had 20-14-5, meanwhile other high selections in recent history have left us wondering "Does this guy know how to play basketball?" a couple years into their career.

True, but you’re also underplaying the concern. It’s not just a “couple plays” and it’s not just this last game. He’s allowing a lot of free path layups. Imo an alarming number given his size and athleticism.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One other note, Jackson was so good in the 2 man game with Ayton.

Yeah, odd that we haven’t seen much of that since season began.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yeah, odd that we haven’t seen much of that since season began.

Is that because Booker is back and JJ is coming off the bench now (and playing sf rather than sg)?

 

[JCSunsfan]

True, but you’re also underplaying the concern. It’s not just a “couple plays” and it’s not just this last game. He’s allowing a lot of free path layups. Imo an alarming number given his size and athleticism.

I am not sure any of the rookies, including Jaren Jackson, are playing good D yet. Some are getting more blocked shots. It must be a huge adjustment learning to play D in the NBa.

 

[Krangodnzr]

True, but you’re also underplaying the concern. It’s not just a “couple plays” and it’s not just this last game. He’s allowing a lot of free path layups. Imo an alarming number given his size and athleticism.

He is, but I think the problem is that too much of those plays are 100% on him to stop. So many bad defenders around Ayton that he is suck having to defend the guard/wing AND the big man. If he collapses on the guard/wing, he gives up the easy path to the big man and if he stays with the big man he gives up the easy basket to the guard/wing AND gives the big man more of an offensive board opportunity.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He is, but I think the problem is that too much of those plays are 100% on him to stop. So many bad defenders around Ayton that he is suck having to defend the guard/wing AND the big man. If he collapses on the guard/wing, he gives up the easy path to the big man and if he stays with the big man he gives up the easy basket to the guard/wing AND gives the big man more of an offensive board opportunity.

True. He’s not being put in a good position. But at least make the guy pass instead of just letting guys waltz to the hole. Maybe the pass is errant or the guy drops the ball, or something.

 

[taz02]

Coach is likely asking him not to get into foul trouble. I think right now being on the floor and getting a feel for the game is probably priority number one.

It is tough to see guys cruise by him on the way to the basket and he is going to have to be more aggressive. If we are 50 games in still having this discussion it will be time for concern.

 

[Chaplin]

Coach is likely asking him not to get into foul trouble. I think right now being on the floor and getting a feel for the game is probably priority number one.

It is tough to see guys cruise by him on the way to the basket and he is going to have to be more aggressive. If we are 50 games in still having this discussion it will be time for concern.

I for one think it would be nice for him to be able to be aggressive at the ends of games instead of playing tentative, or even worse, already fouled out.

 

[Folster]

I for one think it would be nice for him to be able to be aggressive at the ends of games instead of playing tentative, or even worse, already fouled out.

He needs to establish his physicality on both ends of the court with opponents and the refs.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He needs to establish his physicality on both ends of the court with opponents and the refs.

It’s the latter that concerns me. If he’s not known for it he’s going to get ticky tacky calls against him. A lot of the roughest players are so rough all the time that they put pressure on refs not to foul them out. That’s a good thing.