ASU and UofA All Time Great Players; Rankings

[ajcardfan]

Well, for the number one spot, if it includes NFL success then I think it has to be Curley for ASU. He was easily the most dominant Devil to have ever played in the NFL. He was so dominant that he made the All Century team for two different franchises at a position notorious for shortened careers. The 3-4 defense might not even exist today if it hadn't been for him.

Steve

I think the top three are Culp, McDaniel and Jefferson. I'd put them in that order, but any of them has a strong argument for #1.


No one really remembers how freakishly good JJ was. He was the first NFL WR to ever post 1,000 yards in his first three seasons. Plus, I believe he is still the ASU leader in both receptions and yards. Very impressive for a different era of the passing game and offense overall.

 

[Gaddabout]

I think the top three are Culp, McDaniel and Jefferson. I'd put them in that order, but any of them has a strong argument for #1.

No one really remembers how freakishly good JJ was. He was the first NFL WR to ever post 1,000 yards in his first three seasons. Plus, I believe he is still the ASU leader in both receptions and yards. Very impressive for a different era of the passing game and offense overall.

I think JJ was ASU's greatest recruiting victory, and it took half the staff to get him here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I think the top three are Culp, McDaniel and Jefferson. I'd put them in that order, but any of them has a strong argument for #1.


No one really remembers how freakishly good JJ was. He was the first NFL WR to ever post 1,000 yards in his first three seasons. Plus, I believe he is still the ASU leader in both receptions and yards. Very impressive for a different era of the passing game and offense overall.

Oh, I certainly do. In fact, I commented earlier in this thread that I thought he would have gone into the books as the greatest receiver ever if his agent hadn't pushed the Chargers to the wall. I was at ASU for John's last two seasons and had the pleasure of meeting him. He was a genuinely nice guy and when it came to catching the football, if he could touch it he would catch it.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

It doesn't really matter. It's just a thing to get people paying attention and talking about football. Whomever they pick will be met with a certain amount of anger, frustration and/or disgust.

 

[TJ]

If you only follow catscratchfever.com or whatever, I can see how you might come to this conclusion. It's not true, but you're welcome to the delusion.

I do agree both programs are moving upwards.

I suppose ESPN is a "delusion." (though I agree they can be delusional at times).

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/scorecard/_/class/2014/id/9

There are a few other national sites at the moment that rank UofA's 2014 class tops in the conference (which doesn't factor in the Brewer and Neal transfers), but most importantly, we're stocking the cupboards with depth at QB and size on defense. Still head scratching to me that last season, we won 8 games with the Nation's 3rd worst FBS defense.

 

[TJ]

This is a hilarious declaration of winning the Internet. Not that important.

Nah. Not declaring any monumental victories. The OP wanted to open up a UA/ASU "discussion." when you start by using words like "superior," you're not inviting very friendly responses or discourse from the other side.

 

[Mulli]

Nah. Not declaring any monumental victories. The OP wanted to open up a UA/ASU "discussion." when you start by using words like "superior," you're not inviting very friendly responses or discourse from the other side.

Haha. I got ya. No worries. I am pretty sure not many outside of ASU fandom care so much about ASU alum rankings from the 60s through the 90s. Or care so little about them as AU fans.

 

[TJ]

Haha. I got ya. No worries. I am pretty sure not many outside of ASU fandom care so much about ASU alum rankings from the 60s through the 90s. Or care so little about them as AU fans.

How did Auburn enter this discussion?

 

[Mulli]

How did Auburn enter this discussion?

Oh, sorry. I couldn't resist the "typo"

 

[TJ]

Oh, sorry. I couldn't resist the "typo"

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think both classes will end up hinging on players who may or may not have challenges qualifying. At least at the top end of things.

The ping-pong match going on with Natrell Curtis is a good example of two in-state programs having to decide how badly they want a headache just to say they landed an X-star in-state recruit. I say it's not worth it, but YMMV.

Man, so will ASU and UA even combine for half of the top 10 in-state players this year? I know I should be the last to judge as I fled the state recently for the cooler pastures of Southern California but UofA and ASU aren't really bad places to live and go to school all things considering.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Man, so will ASU and UA even combine for half of the top 10 in-state players this year? I know I should be the last to judge as I fled the state recently for the cooler pastures of Southern California but UofA and ASU aren't really bad places to live and go to school all things considering.

I hate California, I love Arizona. But every time I think about moving back to the Valley, I think about the temperature and I settle back in. I'd be fine with the Valley days but here it is at the start of August and our nights are still dropping into the 50's. I just don't think I can handle the 2 AM 100 plus temps anymore. But that shouldn't have any impact on the college age kids, with AC and a keg of beer they'll never even notice it. Both UA and ASU have nice campuses, excellent facilities and great daytime weather most of the year, there's just no reason they shouldn't be able to keep the talent in state.

Steve

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Both UA and ASU have nice campuses, excellent facilities and great daytime weather most of the year, there's just no reason they shouldn't be able to keep the talent in state.

Steve

Unfortunately, you combine more recent success, better weather and superior facilities at a bunch of the top Pac 10 teams,(nevermind ASU/U of A putting less effort into in state recruiting as of late) and it's not surprising that so many kids do decided to go out of state.

You'd have to think that playing in front of family/friends and supporting your state is definitely less of a priority in AZ compared to many other major conference teams. Hopefully that changes at some point, but like getting locals to root for the home team, I assume it'll just take time.

 

[Gaddabout]

Unfortunately, you combine more recent success, better weather and superior facilities at a bunch of the top Pac 10 teams,(nevermind ASU/U of A putting less effort into in state recruiting as of late) and it's not surprising that so many kids do decided to go out of state.

You'd have to think that playing in front of family/friends and supporting your state is definitely less of a priority in AZ compared to many other major conference teams. Hopefully that changes at some point, but like getting locals to root for the home team, I assume it'll just take time.

Facilities aren't the issue. It's all about community pride, or lack of it. Very few are proud of living in Arizona, and in the lifetime of the current recruits, the in-state schools have done very little to instill it.

But let's be honest: When both schools have been at their best in the Pac era, the rosters have been about 2/3rds Californians. We obsess over in-state kids because it's a pride issue, and this year is very special with so many quality recruits. But if either school is going to stand up and be consistently good, they're going to win in SoCal, keep a couple of the game-changers in Arizona, and cherry pick in places like Texas and Colorado.

I look at the best players on ASU's all-time list and notice where they're from:

Curley Culp: Yuma
John Jefferson: Dallas
Eric Allen: LA
Danny White: Mesa
Jake Plummer: Idaho
Mike Haynes: LA
Randal McDaniel: Avondale
Todd Heap: Mesa
Pat Tillman: San Jose
Terrell Suggs: Chandler (by way of Minneapolis)
Ron Pritchard: Bay Area (Antioch, IIRC)
Will Sutton: LA
David Fulcher: LA
Dan Saleaumua: San Diego
The Malone brothers: Eloy, by way of Texas
Ben Hawkins: New Jersey
Bobby Mulgado: Pennsylvania
Jim Jeffcoat: New Jersey
Zach Miller: Mesa
John Mistler: Missouri
JR Redmond: LA
Woody Green: Portland
Todd Kalis: Minnesota

I could go on, but the local guys on that list don't even make up half the list. Some of ASU's very best players have been local, but the overall mix has never been some referendum on in-state recruiting.

 

[Gaddabout]

I suppose ESPN is a "delusion." (though I agree they can be delusional at times).

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/scorecard/_/class/2014/id/9

There are a few other national sites at the moment that rank UofA's 2014 class tops in the conference (which doesn't factor in the Brewer and Neal transfers), but most importantly, we're stocking the cupboards with depth at QB and size on defense. Still head scratching to me that last season, we won 8 games with the Nation's 3rd worst FBS defense.

At the moment? It's August. I take it you don't follow recruiting much. Arizona and USC are tied in the conference with 5 total commits. You better be higher ranked than everyone else because you have the most number of guys on the hook.

Talk to me after everyone fills out their classes. *smh*

 

[Gaddabout]

Man, so will ASU and UA even combine for half of the top 10 in-state players this year? I know I should be the last to judge as I fled the state recently for the cooler pastures of Southern California but UofA and ASU aren't really bad places to live and go to school all things considering.

When they all eventually transfer back, maybe. HA!

 

[TJ]

At the moment? It's August. I take it you don't follow recruiting much. Arizona and USC are tied in the conference with 5 total commits. You better be higher ranked than everyone else because you have the most number of guys on the hook.

Talk to me after everyone fills out their classes. *smh*

I follow recruiting virtually everyday, thank you very much; and know everything about its trends. Obviously, I don't need to qualify this statement. Your response was pretty ignorant and short-sighted. SMH

As for the large numbers, we still have ~6 scholarships left and I don't foresee all of the 20 verbals signing. The number, which includes a good amount of 3-4 * recruits, indicates that the team has been proactive and aggressive instead of taking everyone else's leftovers as in years past. I do agree that we need to see where everyone stands in the end, but UofA fans are very encouraged with what we've seen, particularly in the past week.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Facilities aren't the issue. It's all about community pride, or lack of it. Very few are proud of living in Arizona, and in the lifetime of the current recruits, the in-state schools have done very little to instill it.

I agree with this, but I think most of it has to do with the same problems that all AZ sports deal with - a transient population. As more and more kids grow up born and raised in AZ, that should change, but for the time being, local interest will mostly be bandwagon.

But let's be honest: When both schools have been at their best in the Pac era, the rosters have been about 2/3rds Californians. We obsess over in-state kids because it's a pride issue, and this year is very special with so many quality recruits. But if either school is going to stand up and be consistently good, they're going to win in SoCal, keep a couple of the game-changers in Arizona, and cherry pick in places like Texas and Colorado.

It's a tough balancing act, and I do agree that the majority of our talent should come from California, but talent in Arizona has increased a ton in the last 5-10 years. Sure, we should focus on the cream of the crop locally, and I'm heartened that Graham has made an effort to rebuild those bridges burned by Erickson.

 

[Gaddabout]

I follow recruiting virtually everyday, thank you very much; and know everything about its trends. Obviously, I don't need to qualify this statement. Your response was pretty ignorant and short-sighted. SMH

As for the large numbers, we still have ~6 scholarships left and I don't foresee all of the 20 verbals signing. The number, which includes a good amount of 3-4 * recruits, indicates that the team has been proactive and aggressive instead of taking everyone else's leftovers as in years past. I do agree that we need to see where everyone stands in the end, but UofA fans are very encouraged with what we've seen, particularly in the past week.

Ha! As someone who has followed college football recruiting intensely for 35 years and has actually covered it for a good stretch, shake your head at me at your own expense. There are lots of topics on this board in which I offer an unqualified opinion. On this topic, I actually have some professional expertise, particularly when it comes to ASU and UA.

Your team has been proactive? Welcome to the 21st Century game of recruiting. Everyone is following suit. UA is merely demanding answers right now with a harder sell.

Verbals in August are like leaving candy bars in the car: You don't know what they're going to look like when you return to them. Verbals are non-binding and everyone loses a few these days. Everyone. Verbals are posturing for everyone. You get in early on an underrated kid these days? You can't hide him. He's likely giving you a verbal to secure a scholarship while waiting on his better senior film to catch the eye of the bigger schools.

If -- and it's a big if -- UA's class looks like this in February, it's a nice class. You got a quality legacy kid, you filled a hole with a good juco LB, and you have some other pieces that I think are underrated by the services. Trevor Wood, for example. But this class isn't a class that finishes in the Top 25 of recruiting. That's the rub when you take so many commitments so early. When Texas or Alabama fill up their class before September, most of those commitments are going to stick and they're among the best in the country. UA's class is mostly 2- and 3-star caliber players, which is the type of class ASU and UA have typically recruited for 25 years.

You got most of it done early? Good for you. It's not moving the meter like you think it is.

 

[ajcardfan]

For ASU or au to move the meter on recruiting, they will have to make a major breakthrough on the coaching side. Graham and Rodriguez don't cut it. If one of them can win a title or two, that might start to change. But, dramatic improvement would take a name like Saban or Meyer.

 

[Gaddabout]

For ASU or au to move the meter on recruiting, they will have to make a major breakthrough on the coaching side. Graham and Rodriguez don't cut it. If one of them can win a title or two, that might start to change. But, dramatic improvement would take a name like Saban or Meyer.

The investment in relationships both of these coaching staffs have made -- with players, with coaches, with the community -- will pay off if they stick around. It's a long-term investment. It always pays dividends.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The investment in relationships both of these coaching staffs have made -- with players, with coaches, with the community -- will pay off if they stick around. It's a long-term investment. It always pays dividends.

Only if they win. And I don't consider 7-5 winning

 

[Gaddabout]

Only if they win. And I don't consider 7-5 winning

Agreed, but I think we have a chance this year for both schools to break the 9-win threshold.

 

[Gaddabout]

I agree with this, but I think most of it has to do with the same problems that all AZ sports deal with - a transient population. As more and more kids grow up born and raised in AZ, that should change, but for the time being, local interest will mostly be bandwagon.

I wanted to revisit this when I had a chance, and then I came across a Jon Talton column that better illustrated anything I could have said. In Arizona, we don't build communities that are worth caring about ... mostly because we don't build communities. We build overgrown prison cells. It creates a disconnect for the kids who grow up here. We've overly romanticized the suburbs out of fear and missed the point of what we used to have.

http://www.roguecolumnist.com/rogue_columnist/2009/09/phoenix-101-master-planned-communities.html

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I wanted to revisit this when I had a chance, and then I came across a Jon Talton column that better illustrated anything I could have said. In Arizona, we don't build communities that are worth caring about ... mostly because we don't build communities. We build overgrown prison cells. It creates a disconnect for the kids who grow up here. We've overly romanticized the suburbs out of fear and missed the point of what we used to have.

http://www.roguecolumnist.com/rogue_columnist/2009/09/phoenix-101-master-planned-communities.html

We're getting way sidetracked here but that's a great article. The shift back inwards has been so noticeable in Phoenix over the years which I have seen firsthand working in the property management business. Everyone wants to move to Arcadia and North Central, two older yet much more walkable areas than the suburbs.