Arizona Cardinals Voluntary OTAs week 3. 06/03/24-06/09/24

Garthshort

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I'm assuming that Kyler will probably play a series or two in the PS. And, my question is which game is the most likely to see him on the field, Game 1, 2, or 3?
 

kerouac9

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Tip is the TE with the most question marks. That said, he was used significantly as a blocker in college and that is the area most TEs struggle with when they transition to the NFL. What I like about the TE room is that all the roles are pretty clearly defined. McBride is a dual threat TE. Tip comes in with a strong college background in blocking, but has the athletic profile to be a dual threat. Higgins has showed he can be a receiving option but has limited size.

Imma need to see the evidence that blocking is the primary thing retarding the transition of college TEs to the NFL. I have a hard time believing that a trash program like Illinois had a true NFL-caliber TE receiving threat on their roster but decided to feature some future Culver’s franchisee instead.
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My Biggest gripe with the KK era was the predictability of Kliff's offense and his inability to adapt to the ways that defenses started to play against it.

This is such a dumb assertion. Many of the leagues best offenses run almost exclusively out of the shotgun.

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Los is low-key my favorite Cardinal ever
 

Chopper0080

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Imma need to see the evidence that blocking is the primary thing retarding the transition of college TEs to the NFL. I have a hard time believing that a trash program like Illinois had a true NFL-caliber TE receiving threat on their roster but decided to feature some future Culver’s franchisee instead.


This is such a dumb assertion. Many of the leagues best offenses run almost exclusively out of the shotgun.



Los is low-key my favorite Cardinal ever
My words are your evidence. lol. Vernon Davis came into the league and had to work on his blocking. Greg Olsen same. Mercedes Lewis has hung around the league as a blocking TE.

On Kelce...
“If you’re going to be a good [offense], you have to have that,’’ Smith said. “You’ve got to have a bunch of selfless guys that put the team and the unit first.’’

Brad Childress, one of the Chiefs’ offensive coordinators, said Kelce wasn’t always that kind of player when he arrived as a third-round draft pick in 2013.

“I’ve seen him grow immensely from when he first started here [when] he didn’t think [blocking] was necessarily his job to where he takes it seriously,’’ Childress said.

Childress has a term for players who need to improve their blocking, calling them ‘push and pester’ blockers. Kelce didn’t look like such a player against the Broncos, particularly on Hill’s touchdown. He flattened safety Darian Stewart to free Hill.

Kyle Pitts has ceded snaps to players like Jonnu Smith because of his blocking.

It is one of the reasons Iowa TEs contribute so quickly is because they have NFL-lite blocking expectations in college and when they come into the league, they are not a liability which pulls them off the field.

In Belichick's draft notes which were published a couple years ago he talks about finding TEs who can run and catch because the blocking can be taught.

On Kincaid (and yes I know I am stretching here)

"In the past there was your blocking tight ends and then you had the complementary kind of receiving tight end," said offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey, who played alongside four-time Pro Bowler Jeremey Shockey while at the University of Miami. "And more and more, it's becoming a hybrid position where the best guys can do a little bit of everything. … Even guys who are considered more pass-catching type guys, offenses still use them as blockers."
While blocking in the NFL will be an adjustment for Kincaid, as it is for any rookie, the talented receiver has experience putting his head down and doing a bit of dirty work. In his senior season of high school basketball, Kincaid led the state of Nevada in charges per game.
 

kerouac9

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My words are your evidence. lol. Vernon Davis came into the league and had to work on his blocking. Greg Olsen same. Mercedes Lewis has hung around the league as a blocking TE.

On Kelce...
“If you’re going to be a good [offense], you have to have that,’’ Smith said. “You’ve got to have a bunch of selfless guys that put the team and the unit first.’’

Brad Childress, one of the Chiefs’ offensive coordinators, said Kelce wasn’t always that kind of player when he arrived as a third-round draft pick in 2013.

“I’ve seen him grow immensely from when he first started here [when] he didn’t think [blocking] was necessarily his job to where he takes it seriously,’’ Childress said.

Childress has a term for players who need to improve their blocking, calling them ‘push and pester’ blockers. Kelce didn’t look like such a player against the Broncos, particularly on Hill’s touchdown. He flattened safety Darian Stewart to free Hill.

Kyle Pitts has ceded snaps to players like Jonnu Smith because of his blocking.

It is one of the reasons Iowa TEs contribute so quickly is because they have NFL-lite blocking expectations in college and when they come into the league, they are not a liability which pulls them off the field.

In Belichick's draft notes which were published a couple years ago he talks about finding TEs who can run and catch because the blocking can be taught.

On Kincaid (and yes I know I am stretching here)

"In the past there was your blocking tight ends and then you had the complementary kind of receiving tight end," said offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey, who played alongside four-time Pro Bowler Jeremey Shockey while at the University of Miami. "And more and more, it's becoming a hybrid position where the best guys can do a little bit of everything. … Even guys who are considered more pass-catching type guys, offenses still use them as blockers."
While blocking in the NFL will be an adjustment for Kincaid, as it is for any rookie, the talented receiver has experience putting his head down and doing a bit of dirty work. In his senior season of high school basketball, Kincaid led the state of Nevada in charges per game.
I get all this, but every rookie comes into the NFL having to make a giant leap everywhere.
 

DVontel

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Year 6? No excuses any more. No "Well, he's still making progress." He's either arrived or he never will.
I mean he kind of already “arrived”. Doesn’t mean his positioning when it comes to QB rankings can’t improve. I also didn’t see any of the complaints you said made in that clip.
 

Stout

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I mean he kind of already “arrived”. Doesn’t mean his positioning when it comes to QB rankings can’t improve. I also didn’t see any of the complaints you said made in that clip.
Nothing from the clip, no. I just noted the "year 6" in the header.

Do you honestly think he's arrived? Before last year he had major holes in his game that needed drastic improvement. Did he show improvement in his limited action last season? Certainly. Is it enough yet? Not yet, for me. He needs to show it consistently and for a whole season first.
 

DVontel

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Nothing from the clip, no. I just noted the "year 6" in the header.

Do you honestly think he's arrived? Before last year he had major holes in his game that needed drastic improvement. Did he show improvement in his limited action last season? Certainly. Is it enough yet? Not yet, for me. He needs to show it consistently and for a whole season first.
What is arriving in your case? Like a top 3 QB? In that case, no.
 

Krangodnzr

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Nothing from the clip, no. I just noted the "year 6" in the header.

Do you honestly think he's arrived? Before last year he had major holes in his game that needed drastic improvement. Did he show improvement in his limited action last season? Certainly. Is it enough yet? Not yet, for me. He needs to show it consistently and for a whole season first.
My argument for Kyler is that he had either major talent deficiencies at WR or OL and the scheme didn't help him much under Kliff.

Murray essentially had college coaching for the NFL game. I think Kliff's offense actually could have worked with a mature, NFL proven QB, but Murray still was pretty inexperienced when he came to the NFL and didn't really have the support structure in place.

One of the best aspects of the MO/Gannon regime so far was how much support they gave Kyler right off the bat. Sometimes just having people openly believing in you and not scapegoating you can do wonders. It's not a secret that some of the negative stories on Kyler were likely created by Keim. Keim was a snake.
 
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