Arizona Cardinals Voluntary OTAs week 3. 06/03/24-06/09/24

Stout

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What is arriving in your case? Like a top 3 QB? In that case, no.
A QB that can win in the playoffs, a year-in, year-out top 10 QB, and a sometime top 5 QB to get us to the promised land. He's none of those things yet. We won't go anywhere if he can't be the first two. The last one can be gravy, to help us advance in the playoffs with a stinky D or to help lift up an offense short on weapons in the future.
 

Stout

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My argument for Kyler is that he had either major talent deficiencies at WR or OL and the scheme didn't help him much under Kliff.

Murray essentially had college coaching for the NFL game. I think Kliff's offense actually could have worked with a mature, NFL proven QB, but Murray still was pretty inexperienced when he came to the NFL and didn't really have the support structure in place.

One of the best aspects of the MO/Gannon regime so far was how much support they gave Kyler right off the bat. Sometimes just having people openly believing in you and not scapegoating you can do wonders. It's not a secret that some of the negative stories on Kyler were likely created by Keim. Keim was a snake.
Meh, the bolded is basically the Kyler apologist stance. The "Kyler can't be at fault because X, Y, Z." Yes, he's had less than ideal circumstances. Yes, great QBs can overcome some of these circumstances. That's not Kyler.

I agree on how the MO/Gannon regime has treated him and helped him along, though, 100 percent.
 

Stout

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All this is just to say what I think KM needs to do this year, not to bag on him for last year. We needed to see definite improvement from him last year in difficult circumstances, and we definitely saw enough improvement with him to give him another year. I'm cautiously optimistic moving forward because he has the weapons, a top running game, and a good OL. He has all that he needs to excel.
 

Solar7

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Meh, the bolded is basically the Kyler apologist stance. The "Kyler can't be at fault because X, Y, Z." Yes, he's had less than ideal circumstances. Yes, great QBs can overcome some of these circumstances. That's not Kyler.

I agree on how the MO/Gannon regime has treated him and helped him along, though, 100 percent.
Heavily agreed. We've talked about getting weapons for Kyler like he's a 2nd/3rd round pick that should come with a bunch of limitations. And largely, we've gone and gotten them (DHop, his best friend in Hollywood Brown, Ertz, etc).

I also agree with your more recent post that it's not intentionally to bag on him, he does seem to have shown maturity... but it is time to take a big step. He needs to escalate the game of others around him, and get the ball to the talent around him, which I believe is now at a capable level.
 

DVontel

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We've talked about getting weapons for Kyler like he's a 2nd/3rd round pick that should come with a bunch of limitations.
We’ve talked about getting weapons for Kyler because that’s what a competent General Manager should do. It’s the GM’s job to build a talented team around their QB. If they can’t do that, then build a talented defense where that QB doesn’t need to have a prime Peyton Manning statline every single week. You think Bills’ fans haven’t stopped talking about getting weapons for Josh Allen? Ravens’ fans for Lamar? Charger fans for Herbert?
 

Krangodnzr

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Meh, the bolded is basically the Kyler apologist stance. The "Kyler can't be at fault because X, Y, Z." Yes, he's had less than ideal circumstances. Yes, great QBs can overcome some of these circumstances. That's not Kyler.
We watched some great QBs in the past struggle when they don't have ideal situations. I'm no Kyler apologist by any means, but he has literally had to deal with the bad coaching, bad OL, and bad WR trifecta at times...and that's not including bad defense as well.

Where I blame Kyler is the plays he didn't make that he needed to make, which have been many over the years....but he still stands as one of the franchises best QBs.
I agree on how the MO/Gannon regime has treated him and helped him along, though, 100 percent.
I think there is going to be the right support where there will be no excuses other than from the most extreme apologists. I think he has enough receivers and the OL is good enough that MURRAY needs to take advantage. He certainly has enough talent to succeed.
 

oaken1

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We watched some great QBs in the past struggle when they don't have ideal situations. I'm no Kyler apologist by any means, but he has literally had to deal with the bad coaching, bad OL, and bad WR trifecta at times...and that's not including bad defense as well.

Where I blame Kyler is the plays he didn't make that he needed to make, which have been many over the years....but he still stands as one of the franchises best QBs.

I think there is going to be the right support where there will be no excuses other than from the most extreme apologists. I think he has enough receivers and the OL is good enough that MURRAY needs to take advantage. He certainly has enough talent to succeed.
Agree.
I only want one thing from kyler this season.

I want him to consistently be the player he was the last few weeks of last season. Week in and week out, every single week.

If he does that...this team can go as far as anyone else over the next decade
 

Stout

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Fair.


Mahomes really the only one that has done this. Hurts & Burrow too I guess, but Burrows was more of a defensive effort if anything, tbh.

I agree overall though.
Yep, that's why I said sometime top 5 is just gravy. May be necessary in years the roster isn't so great to make the playoffs.
 

Solar7

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We’ve talked about getting weapons for Kyler because that’s what a competent General Manager should do. It’s the GM’s job to build a talented team around their QB. If they can’t do that, then build a talented defense where that QB doesn’t need to have a prime Peyton Manning statline every single week. You think Bills’ fans haven’t stopped talking about getting weapons for Josh Allen? Ravens’ fans for Lamar? Charger fans for Herbert?
Josh Allen has been one of the best QBs in the league with no one of significant note outside of Diggs. Lamar consistently produces on an elite (MVP) level with mediocre WRs, and Mark Andrews as his main target. Herbert had Keenan Allen and Ekeler. They've all done more with less.

All three of those players have made the mediocre talent around them better.

Asking for more talent to support a QB is fine, but Kyler hasn't ever elevated a talent. Guys like Christian Kirk go on to play better... DHop put up better stats without Kyler, same with Ertz & AJ Green. I understand that Ertz and Green had age holding them back, but still.

This fanbase has given Kyler a pass for never doing anything particularly special outside of some flash plays and hero ball.
 

CardNots

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sad it’s over… mini camp next week before the long dry spell

The full rundown of the Cardinals' schedule until their break in mid-June:
April 15: Offseason strength and conditioning program begins
April 25: Cardinals Draft Party at State Farm Stadium
April 25-27: 2024 NFL Draft, Detroit, MI
May 10-12: Rookie minicamp
May 20-22: Voluntary Organized Team Activities
May 28-30: Voluntary Organized Team Activities
June 3-6: Voluntary Organized Team Activities
June 11-13: Minicamp for veterans and rookies
 

BulldogCard

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The pressures on D, the Running game on offense will prove to be important. If the playoffs are going to happen, the Cards need the game script to be in Kyler's favor. When your D can get after the quarterback and you can hand the ball off; the game is under more control. Part of Murray's maturity will be balancing what the defense gives him with checking into runs and well timed shots down field. Some of Gannons D will get better too as they are in year 2 of his scheme.
 

Chopper0080

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I get all this, but every rookie comes into the NFL having to make a giant leap everywhere.
Yes, but they also should come into the league with things they already do at a high level. In this case, Tip has spent several years in a system where his blocking was more important than his pass catching. Same goes for the Iowa TEs year after year. For many college TEs, this isn't the case.
 

Chopper0080

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You finally got the point. All the other stuff is just basically hoopla related to the post.
The concept of making more things easier for Kyler is probably the best thing I have seen from the new Cardinals regime. Started with the offensive line. Continued with the focus on having a productive running game and having Kyler expand his game. Now hopefully will jump again with added weapons for Kyler to use.

All of this to ensure the offense can be more consistent by structure, and Kyler only have to be special a few times per game.
 
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