And Riley complains that his team quits?

[green machine]

with shaq, jwill and wade injured/out, what did it matter who was coaching? teams arent winning jack without their 2 best players. it was perfect time to get himself healed up too.

So basically he quit on the the healthy players that were left, figuring that they weren't going to win anything without the other guys so why should he stick around to coach a bunch of scrubs?

things change. i didn't expect to get a stomach ache when I went to Disney world after eating that cajun meal. but i did and so I had to deal with it... i don't see how you can say things can never change. riley didn't plan on seeing shaq/wade and rest of team go down to injuries. however it happened so he took advantage of it and got himself healed up. he had a valid reason.

I would guess Riley knew what kind of pain he'd be in without the surgery and he knew he could coach with it and tough it out. But once the losses started to pile up, suddenly the pain started to get worse. It's like Shaq and his injuries: when you're losing suddenly they are worse and you are less able to play. It's crap that Shaq pulled there and the same goes for Riley then.

riley's track record is very long and is a proven winner. you are just wrong and taking any opportunity to whack him. it's not easy to be team president gm and coach all at once.

Nobody forced Riley to have both jobs. If he can't handle them both at the same time then he shouldn't take on that much responsibility.

I'm just amazed that you don't hold Riley accountable for any of the mess that the Heat are in. I read somewhere that they've been a lottery team in 3 of his last 5 years coaching, is that true?

Maybe the game has passed him by...

 

[MiamiHeat]

Other marquee coaches have dealt with similar issues in recent years. Larry Brown missed 17 games with the Pistons two seasons ago following hip surgery, and Lakers coach Phil Jackson missed about a month before the start of this season after his hip was replaced.

 

[green machine]

Other marquee coaches have dealt with similar issues in recent years. Larry Brown missed 17 games with the Pistons two seasons ago following hip surgery, and Lakers coach Phil Jackson missed about a month before the start of this season after his hip was replaced.

Doesn't make Riley any less wrong.

And it's funny, because those are the other two coaches who's egos can match up to Riley's.

Jackson won't coach anywhere unless there is all star talent (outside of the Lakers the couple years before this one), and Brown was the same way, even making sure he was bought out of New York after only one craptacular season.

 

[MiamiHeat]

So basically he quit on the the healthy players that were left, figuring that they weren't going to win anything without the other guys so why should he stick around to coach a bunch of scrubs?

Absolutely. The team sucks without our best players. That's the same for any team. Are you trying to tell me that a coach can make bench players be just as good as the starting lineup and regurlarly beat other team's starting lineups? Lol, you seriously are so misguided. Your logic is not even worthwhile......
Did Phil jackson, Larry brown, Shaq, Jwill, Wade, Michael Jordan, anyone in NBA history quit on their team when they had to heal when they were in pain? nope. riley had a valid medical issue and when his team was down with many injuries, including to 2 of his best players, riley took advantage of the time and healed himself too. he had a lot of pain, who are you to tell him he can't have his surgery.

--------------------------------------
I would guess Riley knew what kind of pain he'd be in without the surgery and he knew he could coach with it and tough it out. But once the losses started to pile up, suddenly the pain started to get worse. It's like Shaq and his injuries: when you're losing suddenly they are worse and you are less able to play. It's crap that Shaq pulled there and the same goes for Riley then.


It's simple and if you don't want to admit it, then you are just being stubborn. Riley would tough it out for the team and take a lot of pain medicine. However, during the season, Shaq, Wade, JWILL, a handful of our best players went down with injuries. This is not something you plan for. So Riley sees his team is down and hurting so he might as well heal himself too so he can come back and be free of pain when the team is healthy too. It's a perfect opportunity.

You are misguided. Big time.

-------------------


Nobody forced Riley to have both jobs. If he can't handle them both at the same time then he shouldn't take on that much responsibility.

He is doing just fine. It's a lot of work and he needs extra time sometimes. It works out great since the HEAT just won a championship 2 seasons ago. Once again, you are just using any absurd thing to attack one of the best coaches the NBA has ever seen.

 

[green machine]

So basically he quit on the the healthy players that were left, figuring that they weren't going to win anything without the other guys so why should he stick around to coach a bunch of scrubs?


Did Phil jackson, Larry brown, Shaq, Jwill, Wade, Michael Jordan, anyone in NBA history quit on their team when they had to heal when they were in pain? nope. riley had a valid medical issue and when his team was down with many injuries, including to 2 of his best players, riley took advantage of the time and healed himself too. he had a lot of pain, who are you to tell him he can't have his surgery.

--------------------------------------
I would guess Riley knew what kind of pain he'd be in without the surgery and he knew he could coach with it and tough it out. But once the losses started to pile up, suddenly the pain started to get worse. It's like Shaq and his injuries: when you're losing suddenly they are worse and you are less able to play. It's crap that Shaq pulled there and the same goes for Riley then.


It's simple and if you don't want to admit it, then you are just being stubborn. Riley would tough it out for the team and take a lot of pain medicine. However, during the season, Shaq, Wade, JWILL, a handful of our best players went down with injuries. This is not something you plan for. So Riley sees his team is down and hurting so he might as well heal himself too so he can come back and be free of pain when the team is healthy too. It's a perfect opportunity.

You are misguided. Big time.

-------------------


Nobody forced Riley to have both jobs. If he can't handle them both at the same time then he shouldn't take on that much responsibility.

He is doing just fine. It's a lot of work and he needs extra time sometimes. It works out great since the HEAT just won a championship 2 seasons ago. Once again, you are just using any absurd thing to attack one of the best coaches the NBA has ever seen.

OK, this is going absolutely nowhere. You apparently see no problem with him ever, that he's doing a great job, despite being in the lottery so often. You also think it is OK for him to leave the team whenever they are doing poorly as long as he has a convenient "legitimate" reason lined up.

I'm done.

 

[MiamiHeat]

He's only been in the lottery twice.

The one year he got Dwyane Wade, and this year. Both times are in the aftermath of a good team's dismantling. The aftermath of the Alonzo Mourning Kidney disease / Tim Hardaway team.... and now the aftermath of the Shaq mess.

That's a normal thing for any team to go through. Look at all teams in the aftermath of their good teams. They have a down year or 2 or even a lot more sometimes.

You have no valid points concerning this issue. Nobody can coach scrubs and bench players into playing as good as starters. That's a fact. So he healed when most of his best players went down too. It was perfect timing he took advantage of.

 

[green machine]

He's only been in the lottery twice.

OK, I'm not done.

2001/2002: 36-46, Lottery
2002/2003: 25-57, Lottery
2007/2008- 11-47, Lottery

Where I'm from that adds up to three.

EDIT: Maybe it isn't three in the last five years, but it is at least three lotteries in six years coaching.

 

[MiamiHeat]

36-46 is not lottery

The one year he got Dwyane Wade, and this year. Both times are in the aftermath of a good team's dismantling. The aftermath of the Alonzo Mourning Kidney disease / Tim Hardaway team.... and now the aftermath of the Shaq mess.

That's a normal thing for any team to go through. Look at all teams in the aftermath of their good teams. They have a down year or 2 or even a lot more sometimes.

You have no valid points concerning this issue. Nobody can coach scrubs and bench players into playing as good as starters. That's a fact. So he healed when most of his best players went down too. It was perfect timing he took advantage of.

 

[green machine]

36-46 is not lottery

The one year he got Dwyane Wade, and this year. Both times are in the aftermath of a good team's dismantling. The aftermath of the Alonzo Mourning Kidney disease / Tim Hardaway team.... and now the aftermath of the Shaq mess.

That's a normal thing for any team to go through. Look at all teams in the aftermath of their good teams. They have a down year or 2 or even a lot more sometimes.

You have no valid points concerning this issue. Nobody can coach scrubs and bench players into playing as good as starters. That's a fact. So he healed when most of his best players went down too. It was perfect timing he took advantage of.

You're right, Caron Butler, picked 10th, must not have been a lottery pick. I forgot the new rule where the lottery ended after pick nine.

And no, it's not normal for teams to hit the lottery every other year, and especially not normal for a team to become the worst in the league just two years after winning a title.

Also, a great, hall of fame coach who can do no wrong should be able to coach his scrubs (the rest of the roster that he assembled) to mediocrity, and at the very least he owes it to them to try.

 

[MiamiHeat]

I don't care if pick #10. 36-46 as a record is not lottery horrible record as you make it sound. 36-46 this year is competing for playoffs.

so only 2 real lottery seasons. both of them coming after the dismantling of a championship contender. that's normal. Cowboys post-Aikman/Emmit/Irvin. Dolphins post Marino. Bulls post Jordan. It's normal.

As for this season, Shaq is to blame. Not even because he has declined in skill and his salary is cap killer not allowing to sign players. It's not even that. It's because Shaq literally stopped trying and wanted to go somewhere else where he doesn't have to help so much. forced a buyout and ran away when the going got tough. left riley to steer this mess at 9-39 when trade was made. so this season doesn't even count IMO. team packed it in because of shaq. marion being here will not change the HEAT's mind to lose a draft pick. we had no hope of making playoffs at 9-39 when trade was made anyway. it was over. shaq is to blame.

 

[Griffin]

Personally, it seems to me like the Heat players have given up on trying to win games, and Riley is about to give up on them. Can't say I blame him really, but I would expect more from him. When you miss games to scout for the draft, it becomes apparent that the organization is more concerned with securing a high pick than with winning games anymore.

Here's some excerpts with Riley comments:

"The attitude that [Miami] showed — I should write a cheque tomorrow to each season-ticket holder and send them [money] back, at least for tonight," Riley said. "I should write the cheque, not even [the players] because I can't get them to play hard."

All of which has led Riley to conclude that some of his players have quit on the season.

"It looks like it. The season is over for them," Riley said. "It's just an apathetic approach on our part. It's so unprofessional [that] it's ridiculous. But, I'm the one responsible for it, so I can't allow that to continue."

 

[green machine]

I don't care if pick #10. 36-46 as a record is not lottery horrible record as you make it sound. 36-46 this year is competing for playoffs.

They finished below .500-that's lottery worthy.

so only 2 real lottery seasons. both of them coming after the dismantling of a championship contender. that's normal. Cowboys post-Aikman/Emmit/Irvin. Dolphins post Marino. Bulls post Jordan. It's normal.

First two are completely different sports. As for the Bulls, they were bad for a few years in a row before finally getting it together. They didn't have the yo-yo seasons that the Heat have.

As for this season, Shaq is to blame. Not even because he has declined in skill and his salary is cap killer not allowing to sign players. It's not even that. It's because Shaq literally stopped trying and wanted to go somewhere else where he doesn't have to help so much. forced a buyout and ran away when the going got tough. left riley to steer this mess at 9-39 when trade was made. so this season doesn't even count IMO. team packed it in because of shaq. marion being here will not change the HEAT's mind to lose a draft pick. we had no hope of making playoffs at 9-39 when trade was made anyway. it was over. shaq is to blame.

And finally the truth comes out; you blame Shaq for all the Heat's problems, and generally dislike the guy. That's fine, you can have your opinion, but you are trying to pass off your opinion as fact and that is just plain not true.

 

[MiamiHeat]

prove to me shaq was not to blame.

the guy makes 20 million but expects all star talent surrounding him. he cannot perform at a 20 mil a year level. NOT EVEN CLOSE. so the team sucks because we can't sign more players because of shaq salary, and shaq can't carry the team because his skills diminished.

show me where that is wrong. Phil Jackson himself makes fun of Shaq.

 

[green machine]

prove to me shaq was not to blame.

the guy makes 20 million but expects all star talent surrounding him. he cannot perform at a 20 mil a year level. NOT EVEN CLOSE. so the team sucks because we can't sign more players because of shaq salary, and shaq can't carry the team because his skills diminished.

show me where that is wrong. Phil Jackson himself makes fun of Shaq.

This isn't a Shaq thread, but if he really was at fault maybe you should put some blame at the feet of the GM that traded for him and then gave him that monster contract, you know, the one that prevented them from assembling any talent around him.

But no, Riley had nothing to do with it.

Back to the original post, and that is Riley leaves when things get rough. I've read some Heat boards and many posters agree with that sentiment.

 

[MiamiHeat]

First two are completely different sports. As for the Bulls, they were bad for a few years in a row before finally getting it together. They didn't have the yo-yo seasons that the Heat have.

doesn't matter if it's a different sport. you lost all credibility a long time ago, now i'm just humoring you with responses really. any intelligent and honest sports guy will tell you that it doesn't matter.

 

[Griffin]

As for this season, Shaq is to blame. Not even because he has declined in skill and his salary is cap killer not allowing to sign players. It's not even that. It's because Shaq literally stopped trying and wanted to go somewhere else where he doesn't have to help so much. forced a buyout and ran away when the going got tough. left riley to steer this mess at 9-39 when trade was made. so this season doesn't even count IMO. team packed it in because of shaq. marion being here will not change the HEAT's mind to lose a draft pick. we had no hope of making playoffs at 9-39 when trade was made anyway. it was over. shaq is to blame.

What do you mean the team packed it in? The season is not over. Just because you can't make the playoffs anymore, does that mean that all the players stop giving effort and stop trying to win games?

 

[MiamiHeat]

This isn't a Shaq thread, but if he really was at fault maybe you should put some blame at the feet of the GM that traded for him and then gave him that monster contract,

why on earth would I do that? lol, the HEAT got a championship out of it many teams are still drooling over winning one

oh and Riley wiggled the HEAT out of the bad years of SHaq's contract. another team has to pay for his final 3 years guess which team?

Riley is the man

 

[green machine]

[/B]doesn't matter if it's a different sport. you lost all credibility a long time ago, now i'm just humoring you with responses really. any intelligent and honest sports guy will tell you that it doesn't matter.

Thanks, I'll go searching for my credibility (because everyone on this board knows I have none left). Also, thanks for humoring me, at this late hour I really could use a laugh.

And the different sport does matter because Basketball is the one sport where being in the lottery should really help your team because one player can make a huge difference for a team. Football it doesn't work that way.

 

[MiamiHeat]

What do you mean the team packed it in? The season is not over. Just because you can't make the playoffs anymore, does that mean that all the players stop giving effort and stop trying to win games?

yeah it sucks. I'm not the one on the court, Griffin. Riley himself is trying to get them to try but the players know the season is over. What can ya do, they are right but you still WANT them to try.

shaq killed our locker room. he went around saying he was praying to be traded (when wade was injured at start of season) and would openly mock riley and the team. he was bad......

don't worry, riley is going to move all of these old shaq pieces very soon revamped roster built around wade....... starting with our very important high draft pick that riley is making sure he gets right

 

[Griffin]

yeah it sucks. I'm not the one on the court, Griffin. Riley himself is trying to get them to try but the players know the season is over. What can ya do, they are right but you still WANT them to try.

don't worry, riley is going to move all of these old shaq pieces very soon revamped roster built around wade....... starting with our very important high draft pick that riley is making sure he gets right

But see, that's part of the problem. What is the priority here? still trying to win games now, or forget the season and start preparing for the draft? What is Riley's priority now?

 

[green machine]

What is Riley's priority now?

Getting the hell away from the mess that is the Miami Heat.

 

[MiamiHeat]

if you want me to be honest, i would say Riley doesn't want to have the worst record in the league. he is too much of a perfectionist and a man who always stresses excellence to want that type of tarnish on his legacy.... but the teams win/loss was 9-39 at the shaq trade. it was over. it's hard to motivate guys to play when they know there is no chance in hell they are going to the playoffs.

so i guess riley wants to do both. he wants to win but he also wants to make sure he's prepared for the draft because the team is doing very poorly.



TO GREENMACHINE :

why on earth would I blame riley for signing shaq to that contract? lol, the HEAT got a championship out of it many teams are still drooling over winning one

oh and Riley wiggled the HEAT out of the bad years of SHaq's contract. another team has to pay for his final 3 years guess which team?

Riley is the man

 

[TheHopToad]

From reading the reports about the situation with the Heat, I would say that Riley is frustrated and upset with the team's lack of caring or effort and just needed to get away. The scouting excuse is just that--a cop out.

If you ask me, he's lost control of that team, and that's a sign that maybe he needs to give up the coaching profession for good. This league has enough fair weather fans, they don't need fair weather coaches.

The Riley of old would have jumped all over that team and made their life a living hell for the types of attitudes he thinks they have. Now he just gives in and walks away.

 

[MiamiHeat]

HopToad, what do you want Riley to do?

What is the goal? Win 20 games instead 11? What does it matter? That would HURT our draft position

 

[BC867]

What a stressful thread.

On a lighter note . . .

Sir Charles Spencer Chaplin, Jr., KBE (16 April 1889 – 25 December 1977), better known as Charlie Chaplin, was an Academy Award-winning English comedy actor. Chaplin became one of the most famous actors as well as a notable director, composer and musician in the early to mid Hollywood cinema era. He is considered to have been one of the finest mimes and clowns ever caught on film and has greatly influenced performers in this field.

One of my two favorite comedic actors of all time, Stan Laurel (Arthur Stanley Jefferson) of Laurel & Hardy fame, was the understudy to Charlie Chaplin before they came to the States.

My other favorite was Peter Sellers, especially as Clouseau. And I'm not even British, as the two of them were.

OK, guys, have I taken your mind off Pat Riley of the Heat?

Continuing the trivia, how about Pat Riley of the Suns?